Unheralded "Eco-Tax" hits Ontario shoppers

[Topaz]

McGuinty must know the Libs are gone in the next election, so he has nothing to lose. This "eco fee" is more like a "users fee" because you only pay if you buy the product. So once you know what products, it may be smart to buy in bulk with products that you can. maybe corporation, should start putting things back into reuseable conatiners. As kids, we use to collect pop bottles for money to buy things at the store. Some of the plastic packages are so hard to get into the way they package them, they are over packaged.

[myata]

Interesting idea. The problem is McGuinty presently has a majority. I doubt he would want to tie his own hands in terms of bleeding us for more revenue. As governments go, even if the PCs form the next government, would they want to cut off this revenue tap?

This is a general problem in our country. We're governed by monopolistic, near oligarchy style governments wtih population highly apathetic to politics. I guess we'll just sail through the good times while they last, and then only god knows. With the governments of our style, always hugely inefficient in any meaningful development, always dead last to adopt any serious innovation - god help us, as we seem to be perfectly unwilling to help ourselves.

[Mr.Canada]

Ontario is so stupid when it comes to things like this. Most people aren't going to dispose of items in the proper way and they wont do it when you're charging them extra to do it.

If the government is serious about this eco stuff then they would open up depots, similar to the bottle and can depots in Calgary and pay people when they bring in their used electronics etc but instead Ontario thinks it wise to tax us instead...idiots.

If the province paid people to recycle everything you'd see clean streets overnight as people would pick up the cans and electronic items that the depots would pay them for. This just proves they aren't serious.

[capricorn]

If the government is serious about this eco stuff then they would open up depots, similar to the bottle and can depots in Calgary and pay people when they bring in their used electronics etc but instead Ontario thinks it wise to tax us instead...idiots.

We already have drop off depots for many of the products for which we now pay an eco tax and we pay municipal taxes for recycling many items. Sounds like there's double dipping involved in waste disposal. It's all very confusing and that's how McGuinty wants to keep it.

[Jack Weber]

I think I may be with Argus on this one. It is not that there is a new tax that I oppose in principle, but I object to the stealth method by which the government is implementing (or pretending to implement, a la G20 police powers) these new measures. Of course, there is no way in hell I will be voting Conservative (and the Conservative will get elected in my riding again anyway), but unless the Liberal candidate is so strong as an individual that I should consider voting for them no matter what party they were in, I do not think I will be voting for them either.

I agree...It's the backroom sleaze of it all that bothers me.I have'nt read all the posts,but there was an article in the Toronto Star(of all places) on Saturday that quoted someone telling retailers to incorporate the fee(tax) into their sticker prices because the public is'nt smart enough to figure it out...

This is the arogance of the political class in this province that openly omits(lies) about something and then feels we're too stupid to figure it out...

The problem is that we have very few choices to vote for next year...I agree with you,I'm not voting Liberal.I live in Hudak's riding and I'm not voting for a Harrisite...The NDP are clueless...

It's not a pretty picture here,folks...

[Mr.Canada]

We already have drop off depots for many of the products for which we now pay an eco tax and we pay municipal taxes for recycling many items. Sounds like there's double dipping involved in waste disposal. It's all very confusing and that's how McGuinty wants to keep it.

Yes but they don't pay us we have to pay them. If the depots paid us to drop off stuff many more people would use them. That's what I was getting at cap.

[Moonlight Graham]

I went to Wal-Mart about a month ago and bought a DVD player. They pointed out to me that they had to charge an extra 2-3 bucks or so for an "environmental disposal" fee or some crap they told me. I had no idea if this was a Wal-Mart thing or a gov't thing. Now i'm hearing stories about this eco-tax crap, which is likely what it was for.

[Yesterday]

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/36018379.pdf

What measures taken for other policy purposes have contributed to mitigation?

• Policies to meet air quality standards have also contributed to lower CO2 emissions, especially in

transition economies, where part of the production capacity was removed or modernized.

• Some climate policies have been structured to bring additional benefits, such as eco-tax revenues

that are recycled to lower employment taxes. These co-benefits have generally strengthened the

legitimacy of the measures.

Ok, lets see it happen then.

[capricorn]

Finally, Tim Hudak offers up the PC response to the eco tax, saying the PCs would scrap the tax.

Ontario PC Leader Tim Hudak called on Dalton McGuinty today to scrap his so-called ‘eco – tax’ and committed that, if the McGuinty Liberals fail to eliminate their latest tax-grab, then a future Ontario PC Government will.

On July 1st, the McGuinty Government was caught trying to sneak in this latest tax in the shadow of their HST tax grab. The funds are collected and levied by a secretive McGuinty Government agency and are subsequently spent without any meaningful transparency or accountability regarding whether this money actually succeeds in reducing waste or helping the environment.

The McGuinty Liberals have tried to disguise their latest tax grab as an environmental measure by labelling it an ‘eco-fee’. It is the latest in a growing pattern of Dalton McGuinty using the environment as an excuse for increasing the tax burden on Ontario families.

----

Some of the 10,000 items included in Dalton McGuinty’s eco tax grab are:

* Air conditioners

* Lamps

* Smoke alarms

* Car polish

* Calculators

* Lighters and Matches

* Electric razors

* Electric toothbrushes

* Camcorders

* Lock de-icer

* Batteries

* Fire extinguishers

* Paint in an aerosol can

* Tire pressure gauges

* Bath Toys

* Sunblock

* Drywall putty

* Lantern

* Electric screw-drivers

* Mouse Traps

* Flashlight

* Answering machines

* Laundry Detergent

* Propane BBQ

http://www.ontariopc.com/news-releases/tim-hudak-commits-that-an-ontario-pc-government-will-scrap-dalton-mcguintys-eco-tax-grab/

Mouse traps? Geez.

[myata]

While I see a value in adding a direct disposal cost to the price of most products, the only way I would support it would be with complete transparency, that should come into effect on the same day as the charges. No taxation without responsibility and accountability, anybody?

[Topaz]

Finally, Tim Hudak offers up the PC response to the eco tax, saying the PCs would scrap the tax.

http://www.ontariopc.com/news-releases/tim-hudak-commits-that-an-ontario-pc-government-will-scrap-dalton-mcguintys-eco-tax-grab/

Mouse traps? Geez.

Why didn't the media ask the PC who idea it was in the first place? Maybe they didn't know it was the PC?

[capricorn]

Why didn't the media ask the PC who idea it was in the first place? Maybe they didn't know it was the PC?

The program the PCs were involved with was the blue box program. The objective of the blue box program was to divert glass, metal, paper and plastics from landfills. There were never any eco fees applied at the point of purchase by the consumer and none were contemplated at the time.

The Ontario Liberals have countered that it was the Mike Harris PC government that ushered in the Waste Diversion Act that created the eco fees.

Hudak said the goal of the Act was to ensure that businesses who produce products that go into the blue box pay their fair share of the cost.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/13/14697816.html

It's all explained nicely in this short history of waste diversion in Ontario. I suggest you read it. Here is an excerpt.

On September 23, 2002, Blue Box Waste (consisting of glass, metal, paper, plastics and textiles) became the first waste to be designated under the WDA. Stewardship Ontario was named as the Industry Funding Organization for the Blue Box Program.40 The Blue Box Program Plan was approved by the Minister of the Environment on December 22, 2003 and went into operation on February 1, 2004. The program requires industry stewards to contribute 50% of the program fees, supplementing the cost to municipalities.41

For more than four years after it commenced, the Blue Box Program was the only program

operating under the WDA. This changed in 2008 with the approval of two additional programs,

the Municipal Hazardous or Special Waste Program and the Waste Electrical and Electronic

Equipment Program.

http://www.cielap.org/pdf/WDA_BriefHistory.pdf

As you read the above, keep in mind that McGuinty came into office on October 23, 2003. It was his government that expanded the Waste Disposal Act in 2008 to include a number of other products and now other products as of July 1, 2010. The Liberals had a majority government so had no problem doing as they wished. Hence, we now have to pay eco taxes on products, many of which are essential in every household.

[Jack Weber]

Finally, Tim Hudak offers up the PC response to the eco tax, saying the PCs would scrap the tax.

http://www.ontariopc.com/news-releases/tim-hudak-commits-that-an-ontario-pc-government-will-scrap-dalton-mcguintys-eco-tax-grab/

Mouse traps? Geez.

Oh goody...Hudak pipes up now....

He was really effective last December during the HST debate...

Just stick to the winery tours,Timmy....

[capricorn]

He was really effective last December during the HST debate...

Neither the PCs or the NDP will commit to doing away with the HST. This leads me to conclude they approve of it. Like it or not, the HST is here to stay.

[Jack Weber]

Neither the PCs or the NDP will commit to doing away with the HST. This leads me to conclude they approve of it. Like it or not, the HST is here to stay.

Sadly...You are correct,madame...

[Wild Bill]

Neither the PCs or the NDP will commit to doing away with the HST. This leads me to conclude they approve of it. Like it or not, the HST is here to stay.

Not necessarily. The sad thing about programmes like the HST is that they can be just as expensive to repeal as to implement!

If Hudak were to achieve power and repeal the HST he would have to pay back the federal bribe that McGuinty received to take the deal. He would also likely have to give business rebates to cover their costs to re-convert their accounting systems.

Plus, we see only the obvious part of having to pay the HST. Behind the scenes many things are also set up to use the money! He would have to spend the money and time resources to cover those as well.

Rest assured, the Liberals in Opposition would be making sure that Ontarioans were all well aware of the monies Hudak would be spending. While perhaps a majority of voters would be happy at an HST repeal it's possible that the negatives could be significant, especially if Hudak acquired some other negatives during his term.

As for the NDP, they love ALL taxes! Their end goal is for them to get ALL the money and then they will give each of us back as much as they think we should get, according to their own dictum "To each according to their ability, to each according to their need".

Fortunately, it will be a LONG time before we have to worry about an NDP government here in Ontario!

So I don't blame Tim for not making the promise. I'm not happy about it but if you're not a realist then you will never come up with anything that actually works.

I have a hate list of McGuinty actions that is miles long! Broken promises, taxes that are called something else and expensive programs like what he's doing with electricity. Surely a vote for Hudak could be worthwhile in enough other areas! Remember, we're Canadians. We don't get GREAT choices anyway! We only get to pick who smells the least!

[Molly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_deposit_legislation

Eco-anything seems to be something that Ontario screws up royally.

Nearly any eco-friendly initiative can be made self-financing (or benefit producing)... This kind of sneak-it-in, no-rhyme- or-reason, no-way-to-avoid-it-by-doing-the-right-thing fee costs at every step, and accomplishes next to nothing.

[Wild Bill]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_deposit_legislation

Eco-anything seems to be something that Ontario screws up royally.

Nearly any eco-friendly initiative can be made self-financing (or benefit producing)... This kind of sneak-it-in, no-rhyme- or-reason, no-way-to-avoid-it-by-doing-the-right-thing fee costs at every step, and accomplishes next to nothing.

A wise woman once said that there are no contradictions, just wrong premises, Molly!

It seems especially true in politics. We get confused thinking that politicians are actually trying to address a problem and/or come up with something that works. When we see screwed up results that could easily have been avoided we are puzzled, thinking that surely even a politician couldn't be that stupid!

The answer is that we're wrong about their goals. They never cared about things working in the first place! They simply cared about getting political credit. "Green" stuff is perfect for this. Most folks don't really understand the issues so they tend to give support and approval based on a politician or government APPEARING to do something! The effort is enough. Nobody understood their plan in the first place!

I mean, look how the rationale for this new "eco-fee" is supposed to fund disposal of hazardous materials. Look at the list of items in one post. Imagine yourself squirting that lock de-icer into the key slot of your car. Once you've squirted out that stuff, how do you intend to recycle it? We already have a venue for empty plastic bottles but the de-icing liquid is long gone.

Sometimes much of what we hear from these "eco-warrior" groups reminds me of kids making spaceships or cars out of empty cardboard boxes, scratching out instrument panels with crayon! Yet when you realize that often no one is really trying to do something that works it all makes more sense.

[capricorn]

Not necessarily. The sad thing about programmes like the HST is that they can be just as expensive to repeal as to implement!

I'm aware of that Wild Bill. I'm saying his low key reaction and the fact he won't commit to rolling back the HST, leaves the perception that he agrees with it. Personally, I don't object to the HST. What I object to is the fact McGuinty applied the provincial sales tax to products and services not previously taxed, simply to raise cash to reduce his deficit and maintain program spending. Taxpayers be damned.

As for the NDP, Horvath said they would not repeal the HST, but alter it to give taxpayers a break.

“The first thing I would do as premier would be to call the prime minister and negotiate a better deal for Ontario,” Horwath said.

She referred to a Nova Scotia provincial election where the opposition ran on a small HST rollback, including removal of the tax from home heating costs.

“There are parameters we can look at even without the federal government’s involvement,” she said.

http://www.yourottawaregion.com/news/local/article/846887--home-renos-heading-underground-ndp-leader

As you say, we're not about to witness a NDP government having to deliver anything, but at least their position is known.

[Molly]

You're right, Bill. It does make sense that way. Edited July 14, 2010 by Molly

[capricorn]

Anyone reading who shops at Canadian Tire, read this. Canadian Tire acknowledges it has made mistakes in applying the eco tax.

“Eco fees were not intended to generate profit for us and we’re working to ensure the correct fees are charged going forward,” Cole said.

Any money that is not reimbursed to customers will be remitted to Stewardship Ontario to pay for its recycling and disposal efforts, she added.

http://www.thestar.com/business/personalfinance/article/835562--roseman-canadian-tire-apologizes-for-eco-fee-errors

Those beggars at Stewardship Ontario must be rubbing their hands in glee.

[Topaz]

This idea was a bad one and the PCs are just as bad as the Libs for bringing this in. All these taxes or users fee or what ever you want to call them could slow down the economy because people will not shop in Canada they will go to the US. IF you do, this fee or tax will not be charged coming back into Canada. Its long time that manufacturers be more responsible for their own products garbage and not on the back on the consumers. I was told women's clothes stores are now charging for their bags, so one woman went in, bought an item and used the clothing store competitors bag. This upset the clerk naturally, giving free advertising to the other store.

[capricorn]

This idea was a bad one and the PCs are just as bad as the Libs for bringing this in.

I provided you links to show the PCs never brought in an eco tax. Now it's your turn. Please provide a site or sites to back up your position that the PCs brought in an eco tax a la McGuinty.

[Jack Weber]

I provided you links to show the PCs never brought in an eco tax. Now it's your turn. Please provide a site or sites to back up your position that the PCs brought in an eco tax a la McGuinty.

The Eco-tax is just the tip of the iceberg the Tories are latching onto...

Ther are'nt the tax fighters they make themselves out to be because Hudak was all for ther HST,along with his complicit Harrisite friend in Ottawa,Mr.Flaharty...

[Mr.Canada]

The Eco-tax is just the tip of the iceberg the Tories are latching onto...

Ther are'nt the tax fighters they make themselves out to be because Hudak was all for ther HST,along with his complicit Harrisite friend in Ottawa,Mr.Flaharty...

Ok great. Provide a link that proves that and we'll start taking you seriously but until then keep chattering.