So you still think you have human right and freedom?

[Army Guy]

Of course not all are bad, but in a lot of the clips we've seen, the police have violated the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

So far in these clips I have seen infringments on Sections 2, 7, 8, 10, 12, and 15 of the CCRF. I hope that all those who were affected file complaints. And when they do, we can all be glad that they were willing to stand up for us.

I'd be curious to know which of those rights can be over riden in such cases as over all public saftey, or in other cases....And while these rights and freedoms we take for granted everyday are in place for a good reason, they also have limitations.

One must be very careful when creating an atmosphere where the police are afraid to carry out thier duties for fear of being charged with something....And that is the entire piont of this exericise it's not about the right to protest it's about making the police look bad....to further limit thier powers , so that next time or protest these holigans will be able to bring mayhem to all our streets....with out fear of the law....

That being said if laws where broken then both sides should atone for them...

Let's not forget that these are fundemental rights that those before us have fought for, we certainly shouldn't roll over and just accept it.

Nice touch,mentioning "those that have fought for" but i'm also sure those fundemental rights where not meant to be twisted so they protect illigal activities....I'm sure if protestors had policed thier own and refused these back masked thugs form taking away from a lawful protest then things would have gone alot smoother, with alot less incidents...within our current form of government there are many ways to get your piont across to top level government staff without breaking the law or exposing yourself to the dangers of a riot situation....

But that would not get you the headlines these guys wanted to create....I wonder how many legimate groups with legimate causes actually got heard during these protests....has anyone heard anyones causes...instead this entire debate has been turned into "RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS" of those poor misunderstood protestors....who some how got cornered...and yelled at then arrested, then released after spending 24 hours in a crowded out door lock up.....If this is all we really have to complain about then we really need to take a look at what we have compare it to what other nations have and count our blessings....But then again we are a nation who has a melt down over some words in our national athem...

[g_bambino]

To give a reason for the $1 billion.

That is the best reason I guess.

Yea, when we see Black Bloc tactics we're getting our one chance to witness part of a secret world wide organisation that holds covert deals with multiple national governments. My toaster says the same thing! The waffle iron disagrees, though. Facist.

[g_bambino]

I'd be curious to know which of those rights can be over riden in such cases as over all public saftey, or in other cases....And while these rights and freedoms we take for granted everyday are in place for a good reason, they also have limitations.

Do you think any of these coddled university students or fringe dwellers screeching to the sympathetic media about violations of their Charter Rights has any clue about what the Charter actually says?

S.1: The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society [emphasis mine].

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Yes, there are limits to your rights and freedoms! Generally, people seem to be under the false impression that the Charter lets you do whatever you want whenever you want to do it.

[Michael Hardner]

Fact of the matter is, there have been hundreds, if not thousands of peaceful, organized and topical protests all over Canada these past few decades without much ado. Where was the police brutality when the Tamil protesters were closing down city streets in Toronto last year? What about all the mayhem when the so-called First Nations marched on Friday? What about all the other protests, shout outs, demonstrations and CAW picnics in the rest of the country. As if...

Great post, Shwa. Of course, post-event, everything was a disaster and everybody is an armchair director-of-security.

This is a unique one-off event with extremely unusual challenges and one needs to underline the fact that people were able to express themselves, and that almost no injuries happened.

[Shakeyhands]

Do you think any of these coddled university students or fringe dwellers screeching to the sympathetic media about violations of their Charter Rights has any clue about what the Charter actually says?

Yes, there are limits to your rights and freedoms! Generally, people seem to be under the false impression that the Charter lets you do whatever you want whenever you want to do it.

This is like calling politicians from some party "elitists". Doesn't make it so. Sure, some University students are able to see a world without the complications of working/surviving adulthood, but it doesn't make them coddled. I sure wasn't when I was at university. Same with the fringe dweller tag, those are usually the type who want to make a difference for those people who are on the fringe of society, those with mental illnesses or other physical issues, low income etc...

The are limits to your rights and freedoms? yes and no, the only way that there could be a suspension is with invoking section 33, which wasn't done.

There were violations to the Charter, unfortunately I don't think anything will be done about it.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Shakeyhands

[g_bambino]

This is like calling politicians from some party "elitists". Doesn't make it so.

Certainly; which is why I didn't say all university students or fringe dwellers were screeching to the sympathetic media about their Charter rights.

The are limits to your rights and freedoms?... [T]he only way that there could be a suspension is with invoking section 33...

Section 1 makes no mention of section 33.

[+]

Edited June 30, 2010 by g_bambino

[wyly]

Great post, Shwa. Of course, post-event, everything was a disaster and everybody is an armchair director-of-security.

This is a unique one-off event with extremely unusual challenges and one needs to underline the fact that people were able to express themselves, and that almost no injuries happened.

but these police tactics occur daily across the country it's only this event that has highlighted it....

not until you've experienced this bullying that you are aware of it, and what do you do about it when it happens to you?...hire a lawyer at $300 per hr?...spend the weekend in jail for insisting on your rights?...what will happen when do make your point and win ? nothing you get an apology and nothing else, you've wasted time in jail and money for legal defense for no gain and the police will do it again to someone else...

yes I've gone through three such similar situations as in the video for no reason other than I was there, no reason, no charges just because they could get away with it...

[Michael Hardner]

but these police tactics occur daily across the country it's only this event that has highlighted it....

Which ones ? Pretty much everything that I heard complained about would only apply to a one-off event such as this.

Things like: sneaky laws passed at the last minute, groups of citizens detained without reason, newly built detention centre not good enough.

not until you've experienced this bullying that you are aware of it, and what do you do about it when it happens to you?...hire a lawyer at $300 per hr?...spend the weekend in jail for insisting on your rights?...what will happen when do make your point and win ? nothing you get an apology and nothing else, you've wasted time in jail and money for legal defense for no gain and the police will do it again to someone else...

I'm aware of it now, because I've heard people complain - not because I experienced it first hand.

What will I do when I get arrested ? I suppose I will cross that bridge when I never come to it.

yes I've gone through three such similar situations as in the video for no reason other than I was there, no reason, no charges just because they could get away with it...

You've been falsely detained 3 times ? That seems incredible to me. What were the circumstances ?

[Sir Bandelot]

Those who are defending the actions of security forces on the weekend are trying to make this into an all or nothing argument. Such as, concern that police might not be able to do their job effectively in the future, if there might be a law suit. But that is not the argument I want to make. My criticism is not that the police were too harsh, but that they allowed the extremist protestors to get away with violence and damage, and instead turned on the legitimate protestors and arrested THEM. I question that decision. I also believe that most Canadians would have wanted those black block groups to be arrested IMMEDIATELY, and would have been tolerant of the law abiding groups that came their with good intentions.

And I am also angry that such a large amount of money was invested in securing this event, yet despite that, the actions of security forces was not satisfactory. They let the Black Block guys carry on. I don't agree with any whining that "the police have a tough job". Yes they always have a tough job. In this case they should have had the resources ($$) and the plan to deal with it effectively.

[bjre]

yes I've gone through three such similar situations as in the video for no reason other than I was there, no reason, no charges just because they could get away with it...

That is the reason why if any cops ask me if check my bag or leave, I will let them check or go away. I will never waste time on talking with them. I know I will never able to sue them. Even when the poor Robert die under taser, those guys can still survive, laws are not for them, laws are their toys.

Cops are basically dangerous weapons. The basic function of it is for helping big interest groups to take money and helping politician to obtain votes, instead of for protecting us.

[Shwa]

Cops are basically dangerous weapons. The basic function of it is for helping big interest groups to take money and helping politician to obtain votes, instead of for protecting us.

Well, my first response is that this is a big pile of crap. But my second thought is to ask you: how would you like the cops to be and how would you run things? And no, changing Child Protection laws is not an answer.

[Shwa]

But that is not the argument I want to make. My criticism is not that the police were too harsh, but that they allowed the extremist protestors to get away with violence and damage, and instead turned on the legitimate protestors and arrested THEM. I question that decision.

Maybe it wasn't so much a decision as a plan.

[wyly]

You've been falsely detained 3 times ? That seems incredible to me. What were the circumstances ?

being in the wrong place at the wrong time...no, tickets, no warrants, no cause, just being there was cause enough, if you don't co-operate by insisting on your rights then comes the threat of jail and if it was a weekend at that time it meant monday release...you wouldn't think this can happen in Canada but it does...

[bjre]

Well, my first response is that this is a big pile of crap. But my second thought is to ask you: how would you like the cops to be and how would you run things? And no, changing Child Protection laws is not an answer.

Simple,

1. The head of cops resign due to mass arrest and for fail doing anything when thugs smashing windows.

2. The cops who violently attack innocent protesters lost his job and face charge of assault.

3. The politicians who decide held the G20 in downtown Toronto pay for the lost of the business personally.

[Remiel]

Yes, there are limits to your rights and freedoms! Generally, people seem to be under the false impression that the Charter lets you do whatever you want whenever you want to do it.

Wikipedia actually has a decent description of Section 1 and some of the applicable judicial tests I mentioned yesterday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_One_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms

Anyone who wants to play armchair-lawyer should probably look carefully at the steps of the Oakes test.

[wyly]

That is the reason why if any cops ask me if check my bag or leave, I will let them check or go away. I will never waste time on talking with them. I know I will never able to sue them. Even when the poor Robert die under taser, those guys can still survive, laws are not for them, laws are their toys.

I never had that choice, once detained you have a choice co-operate and give them what they want or go to jail, object to that and be prepared for bruising, protect yourself and resisting arrest charges are laid or assualting an officer, it's a no win situation, so you swallow your pride and do as they demand...nothing makes me madder than having to walk away from a bully...

Cops are basically dangerous weapons. The basic function of it is for helping big interest groups to take money and helping politician to obtain votes, instead of for protecting us.

don't know about that but there those who think they're super cops(bullys) and everyone else is a bad guy...

[Shwa]

Simple,

1. The head of cops resign due to mass arrest and for fail doing anything when thugs smashing windows.

2. The cops who violently attack innocent protesters lost his job and face charge of assault.

3. The politicians who decide held the G20 in downtown Toronto pay for the lost of the business personally.

No, no, no, no. What would you do to to run policing in general for all of Canada?

[bush_cheney2004]

I never had that choice, once detained you have a choice co-operate and give them what they want or go to jail, object to that and be prepared for bruising, protect yourself and resisting arrest charges are laid or assualting an officer, it's a no win situation....

Yes, one that you chose to create no doubt. Lots of choices here....you just didn't like them.

[GostHacked]

As I posted in this thread, we are now aware that there was no law or legislation to grant these cops extra powers for the G20 summit.

Because of that, many people had their rights violated. It really is as simple as that.

[bjre]

No, no, no, no. What would you do to to run policing in general for all of Canada?

The basic idea is when anyone doing wrong, he need have responsibility for that. There should be a ratio of "bad guy" cops be punished, and a ratio of "bad guy" politicians resigned for the damage they made, so that they can understand they are not supposed to do whatever they want.

Same for CAS, same for every tax payer paid positions. Same for doctors in hospitals when people die unnecessarily in hospitals.

This is very obvious.

But in real life, I did not see any report on any cop be charged abuse their power while there are lots of such information you can find from various sources on people be bullied by cops and CAS workers.

And, for significant important things (like need significant large amount of cost from tax payers), vote on single matter directly, instead of decide by "representatives" only.

Edited June 30, 2010 by bjre

[Shwa]

But in real life, I did not see any report on any cop be charged abuse their power while there are lots of such information you can find from various sources on people be bullied by cops and CAS workers.

Nope, my original thought was correct in assessing your previous opinion as a pile of crap.

If you don't see reports of cops being charged because of 'abuse of power' then you don't read much. Does the world disappear when you close your eyes too?

[bjre]

Nope, my original thought was correct in assessing your previous opinion as a pile of crap.

I am not in a position to spend time and do research on that topic. The people who take us tax money should research and give us a solution on that instead of just blame each other and take money and don't do real job.

If you don't see reports of cops being charged because of 'abuse of power' then you don't read much. Does the world disappear when you close your eyes too?

If it does exist, then it is too far less than enough to have some real effect.

Edited June 30, 2010 by bjre

[bjre]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/830858--ttc-worker-caught-in-g20-police-sweep

Benjamin Elroy Yau, 37, said he was walking along College St. to the Queen’s Park subway station before his 6 p.m. shift when two police officers “tackled” him to the ground and yelled at him to stop resisting arrest.

“I told them I wasn’t resisting arrest, that I was on my way to work. I was in full uniform with TTC shirt, pants, full ID, my employee card, everything,” Yau said on Wednesday. “They said, ‘Really? Well, you’re a prisoner today.’ ”

Moments before, another man had run into him but kept going, Yau said, adding that man was also arrested. There was no protest in sight and not many people in the street, he said.

Berating Yau and swearing at him for being an “embarrassment” to the TTC, officers dragged him half a block in handcuffs and shackles and threw him into a paddy wagon, he said.

After a TTC supervisor arrived to vouch for him, he thought he’d be released but was sent to the Eastern Ave. detention centre instead.

“I was petrified, I was shocked. I was essentially arrested for going to work,” said Yau, who is still traumatized by the experience. “It was just martial law. I had no rights.”