Loser Protesters

[Remiel]

Then at such events as the Olympics or G8, the police could recruit volunteers to patrol the streets against anarchists. It would not be the least expensive solution, and not the most effective one either, but it would strike a reasonable balance between the two.

I seriously doubt that it would be of any use at all in the respects you think. Among the host of other problems, all the Canadian anarchists would have been trained exactly the same way.

[Machjo]

I seriously doubt that it would be of any use at all in the respects you think. Among the host of other problems, all the Canadian anarchists would have been trained exactly the same way.

Even if the volunteers could not capture the thugs, as long as they could slow them down enough for the police to arrive and make an arrest.

Also, my guess is that the thugs would be outnumbered by volunteers, and add to that that most of these thugs would likely have stopped practicing any kind of martial art by the age of 15, whereas at least some of the responsible members of the community would likely have developed an interest in martial arts as a result of this introductory martial arts education, and some woudl likely move up to either the traditional forms of Tai Chi Chuan or other martial arts and so kept up their skills. Add to that that this would not replace the police presence, but complement it, and if I understand correctly, many police officers are also trained in Aikido, not to mention all the other equipment they have.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Machjo

[bloodyminded]

I seriously doubt that it would be of any use at all in the respects you think. Among the host of other problems, all the Canadian anarchists would have been trained exactly the same way.

Plus, growing up, nearly every douchebag I knew who practiced martial arts thought it hilarious to punch and kick everybody in their vicinity.

(Though I suppose, if everyone knew it, it might even itself out a bit....)

[Jack Weber]

Plus, growing up, nearly every douchebag I knew who practiced martial arts thought it hilarious to punch and kick everybody in their vicinity.

(Though I suppose, if everyone knew it, it might even itself out a bit....)

Whenever one of those pyjama wearing goofs tried that stuff on me I immediately kicked them in the 'nads...

Chop Saki stuff does'nt work well when you're on the ground,writhing in pain...And the jewels are in your throat...

[Remiel]

Even if the volunteers could not capture the thugs, as long as they could slow them down enough for the police to arrive and make an arrest.

How you imagine this would all go down is a little too fanciful, Machjo. There are good and valid reasons for teaching martial arts in school. There may even be good and valid reasons to deputize citizens to watch out for troublemakers. But the ability to create roving bands of Tai Chi masters to deal with anarchists (who under this scenario would also know Tai Chi), is not a reason to teach Tai Chi in school. I would not even call it an expected benefit.

[Keepitsimple]

Another question. Why do people care so much about whether these thugs are left wing, right wing, centrist, anarchist, liberation, communist or whatever? I it that if they do this in the name of one ideology it's OK but it's not OK if they do it in the name of another ideology?

When one focuses on the ideology of these thugs rather than their acts, this is essentially what he's saying.

Now someone who's serious about ending this thuggery won't waste his time trying to blame this on this or that ideology or party, etc., but rather would focus on ways we can all work together to put an end to this thuggery.

I'll agree with you on that one. These thugs don't have any political beliefs at all - other than mayhem and getting two minutes of dubious "fame".

[Jack Weber]

How you imagine this would all go down is a little too fanciful, Machjo. There are good and valid reasons for teaching martial arts in school. There may even be good and valid reasons to deputize citizens to watch out for troublemakers. But the ability to create roving bands of Tai Chi masters to deal with anarchists (who under this scenario would also know Tai Chi), is not a reason to teach Tai Chi in school. I would not even call it an expected benefit.

Interesting...

I was watching the Ceeb last week before all this happened,and they were talking with self professed "anarchists"..One of them,was a yoga instructor and aspiring hip hop "musician"...Here he was,basically advocating for as much revolutionary violence as possible,while teaching people yoga for profit...

Edited July 1, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Machjo]

Plus, growing up, nearly every douchebag I knew who practiced martial arts thought it hilarious to punch and kick everybody in their vicinity.

(Though I suppose, if everyone knew it, it might even itself out a bit....)

Funny that. I'd studied Karate years ago, and never once thought of using my skills outside of the dojo except in self defense. In fact, I'd only used them once against someone taunting me, and even then my kick never even made contact with him. I'd purposely kicked far enough ahead of him to just give him a warning, and he backed off. The most he would likely have felt would have been air movement from the kick stopping close to him, if that.

At the dojo I'd trained at, we were required to sign an agreement that the sensei had the right to refuse us instruction should we use our skills in any illegal or other manner contrary to the principles of the dojo.

So I don't know what kind of instructor was teaching the guys you knew, but certainly we'd expect some the learners to abide by certain principles.

While I've never learnt tai chi chuan myself, I can say from having observed a few forms of it, that while some forms are just as difficult to learn as any other martial art such as karate, unlike other martial arts, tai chi chuan also has simplified forms that are easier and so more accessible to the general population. Whether they're as effective as traditional forms or other martial arts, I don't know. But if we were teaching it compulsorily to children of varying levels of ability, then certainly a martial art that offers the option of a simplified form alongside traditional forms would be an advantage for the purpose of an introductory martial art. Karate unfortunately has no simplified forms to choose from, and so would not necessarily be ideal in such a compulsory context where some students might not be particularly interested.

[Remiel]

While I've never learnt tai chi chuan myself, I can say from having observed a few forms of it, that while some forms are just as difficult to learn as any other martial art such as karate, unlike other martial arts, tai chi chuan also has simplified forms that are easier and so more accessible to the general population. Whether they're as effective as traditional forms or other martial arts, I don't know. But if we were teaching it compulsorily to children of varying levels of ability, then certainly a martial art that offers the option of a simplified form alongside traditional forms would be an advantage for the purpose of an introductory martial art. Karate unfortunately has no simplified forms to choose from, and so would not necessarily be ideal in such a compulsory context where some students might not be particularly interested.

This may sound as fanciful as I just accused you of being, but I am a subscriber, sort of, to Bruce Lee's philosophy of fighting: do whatever uses the least energy and works. He was not a big fan of " forms " and kata. Everyone knows him for being a TV and movie star, but fame found him because he was a fighter; and he was a practical fighter.

[Born Free]

Yup...

Must have Tea Party movement in Canada(and a Civil War)

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=12783&st=120

Post 123 of the "Civil War" thread

And for an added pleasure,Mr.Falange's open case for a Fascist dictatorship in Canada!

(post 24)

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16672&st=15

Liars and BS artists have short memories...

[bloodyminded]

Funny that. I'd studied Karate years ago, and never once thought of using my skills outside of the dojo except in self defense. In fact, I'd only used them once against someone taunting me, and even then my kick never even made contact with him. I'd purposely kicked far enough ahead of him to just give him a warning, and he backed off. The most he would likely have felt would have been air movement from the kick stopping close to him, if that.

At the dojo I'd trained at, we were required to sign an agreement that the sensei had the right to refuse us instruction should we use our skills in any illegal or other manner contrary to the principles of the dojo.

So I don't know what kind of instructor was teaching the guys you knew, but certainly we'd expect some the learners to abide by certain principles.

Oh yes, I have heard that this is a pretty ironclad rule that is usually taught--that the skills are also a type of responsibility.

But I'm surprised you never knew any thirteen year olds who wantonly broke this rule. I saw it all the time. It is the norm, I believe, rather than the exception.

Teach someone physical skills, and they will wish to show them off. Often in an asshole manner.

[bjre]

Even if the volunteers could not capture the thugs, as long as they could slow them down enough for the police to arrive and make an arrest.

It will be dangerous if you want to do this.

There was a shop keeper who was charged when he catch a thief stealing in his shop.

And in this particular situation, if you really succeeded in making the damage very small, and someone wish it large, you will get more trouble. This is a material world, I guess there are people happy to see this happen. The thugs won't do it if they are not sure they can do it. If not, why don't they did it in normal days, why they pick the date they know there are large cop force there? And how do they know there were no cops there for that period of time there and organize at least more than 10 members to go there and with the media camera man to report and with helicopters above their head? How regular thugs dare to do that?

Edited July 1, 2010 by bjre

[Machjo]

Oh yes, I have heard that this is a pretty ironclad rule that is usually taught--that the skills are also a type of responsibility.

But I'm surprised you never knew any thirteen year olds who wantonly broke this rule. I saw it all the time. It is the norm, I believe, rather than the exception.

Teach someone physical skills, and they will wish to show them off. Often in an asshole manner.

Nope. I was learning Karate at the age of 12 and never abused it. And from what I could see, all the others in the dojo, many of whom were my age, always abided by the rules of the dojo and were always courteous, kind and friendly. At school, I was the only one I knew who was studying karate, yet still most of my classmates never knew I was in karate except for a few, and they'd found out only because they'd asked why I was so flexible in PE. Nothing to do with throwing punches. And again, the only time I'd ever used my skills in school was against one student who wanted to fight me for no reason. He was taken aback when I'd thrown a kick with my foot stopping a few inches short of his face. That was the beginning and the end of the fight, and he'd never taunted me again. He too was shocked since he didn't know I was learning karate. I can also say no one around me feared me. Even the guy I'd thrown a kick towards did not fear me even after I'd thrown the kick. He just knew not to fight me, that's all.

Again, I'd never come across a karateka yet who'd abused his skills. I believe you when you say you have. I'm just saying though that form my observations, that is not the norm, and it was likely more to do with them having had a poor upbringing, or a morally corrupt sensei.

[bloodyminded]

Nope. I was learning Karate at the age of 12 and never abused it. And from what I could see, all the others in the dojo, many of whom were my age, always abided by the rules of the dojo and were always courteous, kind and friendly. At school, I was the only one I knew who was studying karate, yet still most of my classmates never knew I was in karate except for a few, and they'd found out only because they'd asked why I was so flexible in PE. Nothing to do with throwing punches. And again, the only time I'd ever used my skills in school was against one student who wanted to fight me for no reason. He was taken aback when I'd thrown a kick with my foot stopping a few inches short of his face. That was the beginning and the end of the fight, and he'd never taunted me again. He too was shocked since he didn't know I was learning karate. I can also say no one around me feared me. Even the guy I'd thrown a kick towards did not fear me even after I'd thrown the kick. He just knew not to fight me, that's all.

Again, I'd never come across a karateka yet who'd abused his skills. I believe you when you say you have. I'm just saying though that form my observations, that is not the norm, and it was likely more to do with them having had a poor upbringing, or a morally corrupt sensei.

Well, since we see no reason to doubt one another's anecdotes, then maybe your conclusions are right.

[Machjo]

Well, since we see no reason to doubt one another's anecdotes, then maybe your conclusions are right.

I would guess though that if we were to teach tai chi chuan in the public school system, that the school principle would likely hold the instructor and students to the highest moral standards in this regard and would likely insist that the traditional forms of respect normally shown in tai chi chuan are to be observed at all times during instruction. Also, I can imagine public schools not allowing a pupil to graduate to traditional forms of tai chi chuan no matter how well he's mastered the simplified forms until he's also mastered the character expected of a tai chi chuan practitioner. Add to that that in religious schools such as the Ontario separate school system, they'd likely complement it with basic Christian principles of respect.

If most private instructors expect such standards of their students, I'm sure public schools would expect at least the same standards if not higher.

[Jack Weber]

This may sound as fanciful as I just accused you of being, but I am a subscriber, sort of, to Bruce Lee's philosophy of fighting: do whatever uses the least energy and works. He was not a big fan of " forms " and kata. Everyone knows him for being a TV and movie star, but fame found him because he was a fighter; and he was a practical fighter.

Bruce Lee founded Jeet Kun Do...It's a sort of hybrid martial art.He had the same problem you had in that most martial arts start from a static position with the feet firmly planted...Lee watched people like Muhammed Ali,and how fast they were on their feet in a more simplistic and highly restricted martial art like boxing,and thought he could incorportae that into an Eastern martial art.He caught alot of flak for doing that from the great Kung Fu masters because of his break with tradition...

[dre]

Since we are talking about marshal arts...

Anyone into picking a winner for the Carwin Lesnar fight this weekend? Will Lesnar be able to take Carwin past round 1 for the first time in his career?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414224-carwinlesnar-prediction-when-unstoppable-force-meets-immovable-object

Ill take Carwin in Round 1.

Edited July 1, 2010 by dre

[Jack Weber]

Since we are talking about marshal arts...

Anyone into picking a winner for the Carwin Lesnar fight this weekend? Will Lesnar be able to take Carwin past round 1 for the first time in his career?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414224-carwinlesnar-prediction-when-unstoppable-force-meets-immovable-object

Ill take Carwin in Round 1.

I'm a boxing fan...

MMA is MMGay...

[dre]

I'm a boxing fan...

MMA is MMGay...

I'm a boxing fan...

Sorry man. That gotta suck.

Doesnt mean youre a bad person though

[Jack Weber]

Sorry man. That gotta suck.

Doesnt mean youre a bad person though

You're funny ...I don't deny the athleticism necessary for "The Octagon"..

I just find the whole thing a little over the top...

[dre]

You're funny ...I don't deny the athleticism necessary for "The Octagon"..

I just find the whole thing a little over the top...

I used to feel the same way. MMA used to just be big brawlers swinging for the fences, but now they have the best marshal artists in the world... many of them with black belts in a whole host of different arts. Iv become a big fan over the last few years... Started watching GSP because hes Canadian, then the thing just grew on me.

It will probably never have the same quality and accuracy of striking as pro boxing, or k1 kickboxing, but the sport is very entertaining and getting better all the time. Give it a chance! Betcha it grows on you.

[Machjo]

I used to feel the same way. MMA used to just be big brawlers swinging for the fences, but now they have the best marshal artists in the world... many of them with black belts in a whole host of different arts. Iv become a big fan over the last few years... Started watching GSP because hes Canadian, then the thing just grew on me.

It will probably never have the same quality and accuracy of striking as pro boxing, or k1 kickboxing, but the sport is very entertaining and getting better all the time. Give it a chance! Betcha it grows on you.

Strange that. I've always loved martial arts as an art form, perhaps along the same lines of why some love dancing. It truly is a beautiful art form in its own right dependently of its martial purpose. Watching people fight, especially just for sport, has never interested me though. I can't stand watching people hurting each other for no good reason. I accept fighting, but certainly not for sport.

[Jack Weber]

I used to feel the same way. MMA used to just be big brawlers swinging for the fences, but now they have the best marshal artists in the world... many of them with black belts in a whole host of different arts. Iv become a big fan over the last few years... Started watching GSP because hes Canadian, then the thing just grew on me.

It will probably never have the same quality and accuracy of striking as pro boxing, or k1 kickboxing, but the sport is very entertaining and getting better all the time. Give it a chance! Betcha it grows on you.

I have had the great misfortune of paying for it...

I don't find the fighters paricularily skilled at any one thing.Most seem to be 60%ers at everything they do.

Most MMA fights seem to go like this...

Fighter 1 throws a slow punch with poor form and somehow connects to the glass jaw of fighter number 2 because he could barely defend himself.Fighter 2 goes down in a heap and the fight is over...

or

Fighter one sweeps the legs out of fighter 2 and then proceeds to fill fighter 2's face in and the fight ends...

or

Fighter 1 and 2 lie on top of each other in what might be construed as some sort of soft core gay grabass session...Some sort of choke hold is applied,and the fight is over...

I find MMA is for people who don't want to take the time to understand the science of physical combat.They seem to want to be entertained by as much violence and blood as they can handle in the shortest amount of time possible...

Boxing,in some form or another,has been around for at least 6000 years.It is the "Sweet Science"...The art of hitting and not getting hit in the most restricted form possible...

MMA just seems like crass entertainment..

Edited July 1, 2010 by Jack Weber

[dre]

I have had the great misfortune of paying for it...

I don't find the fighters paricularily skilled at any one thing.Most seem to be 60%ers at everything they do.

Most MMA fights seem to go like this...

Fighter 1 throws a slow punch with poor form and somehow connects to the glass jaw of fighter number 2 because he could barely defend himself.Fighter 2 goes down in a heap and the fight is over...

or

Fighter one sweeps the legs out of fighter 2 and then proceeds to fill fighter 2's face in and the fight ends...

or

Fighter 1 and 2 lie on top of each other in what might be construed as some sort of soft core gay grabass session...Some sort of choke hold is applied,and the fight is over...

I find MMA is for people who don't want to take the time to understand the science of physical combat.They seem to want to be entertained by as much violence and blood as they can handle in the shortest amount of time possible...

Boxing,in some form or another,has been around for at least 6000 years.It is the "Sweet Science"...The art of hitting and not getting hit in the most restricted form possible...

MMA just seems like crass entertainment..

I find MMA is for people who don't want to take the time to understand the science of physical combat.

I find the opposite. Mixed marshal arts IS physical combat... boxing is not. When humans fight they dont stand there and trade punches. They use whatever skill and strength they have at their disposal to win in any position possible. Thats what MMA is. You use whatever skills you have at your disposal. Boxing on the other hand isnt real fighting. Its a scripted form of entertainment where only one genre of combat is allowed and all others are not.

Hand strikes are only one small part of fighting. A boxer can fight in MMA and sometimes they do well. A kickboxer can fight too and pit his skills against wrestling, grappling, boxing, karate or anything else.

[Keepitsimple]

Meanwhile, tens upon tens of thousands of people celebrate Canada Day in Ottawa in peace and fun with nary a protest.....and no visible presence of police. What a contrast to the spoiled bunch of brats that could find nothing to do but complain. The harmonious gathering on Parliament Hill reaffirmed my faith in the goodwill and hopeful future of our country.