Loser Protesters

[JB Globe]

Let me add a fourth description to that list I made earlier . . .

4 - Some of the rioters were COPS

It wouldn't be the first time in Canada that police infiltrated a protest posing as Black Bloc protesters carrying weapons.

Frankly this wouldn't surprise me at all.

There's already some video circulating of Black Bloc people seemingly passing a police line with ease, but it's far from conclusive, I wonder if more video/photos will emerge.

Edited June 29, 2010 by JB Globe

[GostHacked]

Let me add a fourth description to that list I made earlier . . .

4 - Some of the rioters were COPS

It wouldn't be the first time in Canada that police infiltrated a protest posing as Black Bloc protesters carrying weapons.

Frankly this wouldn't surprise me at all.

There's already some video circulating of Black Bloc people seemingly passing a police line with ease, but it's far from conclusive, I wonder if more video/photos will emerge.

JB Globe, I am with you on this, I said they could be cops and had the tin foil hats thrown at me. The Montebello incident was plastered all over the news and I believe we even had a very lengthy thread on this when it happened.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=9686&view=&hl=montebello&fromsearch=1

Here is the thread. And for those who threw the tin foil at me, read and learn.

[lukin]

You might need a history lesson. The Social Welfare state started back in the 1800s and is responsible for creating the middleclass from which most of our society benefits. The welfare state will continue to exist in some form however the trend since the 1990s Federal was for the LIBERALS to clawback on the welfare state and services provided while maintaining a higher level of taxation. The method of paying has changed. From Income to Service taxes and this is the role the Conservatives brought in prior with the implementation of the GST and now the HST in BC and Ontario. The Taxation will continue and monies will be doled out, but to whom it goes is different today then 30 years ago.

Taxation to provided services to the public is the reason for Taxation. However long before the strength of the welfare state was a centre piece of Canadian Society, those taxes collected came from the poor and middle incomes who at one time didn't even have the right to vote, while their monies was given to wealthy corporations run by wealthy people who didn't have to pay taxes. Such was the good ole days.

The creation of the middle class changed Canadian Society and all industrialized nations that adopted it, grew in strength and wealth and better societies while those other nations never grew out of 3rd world status and remain so today.

The frittering away at Canadian Society is eroding the middleclass and thus taxation must be shifted to the lower middleclass and the burden and hardships of taxation removed from those who could afford to pay.

I am sure you hate this welfare state.

But there is always one fool who doesn't realize the benefits of being born in this country and his mom not having to go into debt for such a joyous occasion.

If you wish to enjoy a capitalist society with no social safetynet, there are always countries like Haiti to go to.

They did not have cradle-to-grave social welfare in the 1800's. You need the history lesson. Pierre Trudeau introduced the modern welfare state. Brian Mulroney did very little to change that. There are definitely parts to this welfare state that I dislike. I dislike seeing people on welfare, and with kids, spending their welfare money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery terminals. Many of these people, male and female, are very capable of working. However, because of the welfare state mentality, where it's the governments job to provide, people feel it's a right to receive unearned cash. There are people who truly need welfare because they are physically or mentally unable to work, and they deserve it.

I'm tired of a constant raise in taxes to cover laziness and the sense of entitlement.

Look at the EI system in Denmark. Work one year and receive 4 years of EI at roughly 90%. I don't want that here.

How many people in Canada collect EI, yet accept cash under the table that they don't have to claim. That is abusing the system. i dislike that.

[Sir Bandelot]

JB Globe, I am with you on this, I said they could be cops and had the tin foil hats thrown at me. The Montebello incident was plastered all over the news and I believe we even had a very lengthy thread on this when it happened.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=9686&view=&hl=montebello&fromsearch=1

Here is the thread. And for those who threw the tin foil at me, read and learn.

So are you saying that they purposely allowed the violent protestors to do their thing on the first day, then used that as an excuse to crack down on all the peaceful protests the second day?

[madmax]

They did not have cradle-to-grave social welfare in the 1800's. You need the history lesson. Pierre Trudeau introduced the modern welfare state. Brian Mulroney did very little to change that. There are definitely parts to this welfare state that I dislike. I dislike seeing people on welfare, and with kids, spending their welfare money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery terminals. Many of these people, male and female, are very capable of working. However, because of the welfare state mentality, where it's the governments job to provide, people feel it's a right to receive unearned cash. There are people who truly need welfare because they are physically or mentally unable to work, and they deserve it.

I'm tired of a constant raise in taxes to cover laziness and the sense of entitlement.

Look at the EI system in Denmark. Work one year and receive 4 years of EI at roughly 90%. I don't want that here.

How many people in Canada collect EI, yet accept cash under the table that they don't have to claim. That is abusing the system. i dislike that.

Your funny..

Thanks for the entertainment.

Welfare in its delivery is Provincial and not to be confused with the "welfare state".

Every Province in Canada has Welfare and will continue to have welfare, be it the old Right Wing Social Credit or the Left Wing CCF or the Right Wing BC Liberals, the Right Wing Harris Conservatives, the Centre Right Ontario LIberals of McGuinty, any ALberta Government, Any Sask government and government and these are in General CONSERVATIVE and LIBERAL governments including the SASK party, because the Province would be far worse without it. And if that wasn't true it would have been eliminated decades ago.

Welfare is NOT popular. Welfare is NOT a vote getter. The Majority of the population dislike the idea of Welfare. And the Majority of those how vote are those working and in middle and upper middleclass families.

So, if you take a % of the population, stereotyped in the manner you have described, which may be supported by your anecdotal, then we wouldn't have it.

The reason we do have it is because your post is bullshit.

You may not like it, but I can point to a person I deal with who travels the globe today doing mergers and aquistions for a swiss firm based out of the US. She travels to India and China and helps purchase major CDN resources and companies. These actions have been one of the many factors to help move people from the Employment line to the Unemployment line.

WHile she, her sister and most of her family all broke out of the welfare trap, there is little argument that it put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

That horrible cradle to grave welfare state, put them through school, College and University. It helped pave their path for Economics and Law.

Unfortuneately today, she would likely say the same thing as you, as she never had the courage when she made it to the Bay Street, Wall street and California to stand up to those who would bash people who come from a home of little means.

Nice to have people like you shitting on others.

But I also have personal anectdotal evidence and I can tell you it those people who lost their businesses and had to use welfare because their is no EI are greatful today that it is there and they will rebound.

You just keep fretting about a pack of smokes while Billions are being bled from us.

Continue to call people Lazy while wealthy people who have all the potential to be much lazier and complain all the way to the bank.

Laziness and income are not the same.

If you didn't have welfare to bash it would be like the other thread where a person is taking potshots on the working poor.

Its easy to pick on the weak. Its much harder to get them out of where they are, but they will leave the system. It takes time, but it will happen.

The costs of removing it outweigh the benefits, or it would have been quashed long ago as it has no political support from the general public.

Edited June 29, 2010 by madmax

[Oleg Bach]

I posted a video on the riots. What are you talking about ,Oleg?

I posted a thread called Anarchists - top and bottom feeders...some how my new topic disappeared..and all that was left was the tail end of the topic title "top and bottom feeders" - let me jump back and have a look a this "losers protestors" and affirm that you posted the new title - back in a bit.

[Oleg Bach]

Not sure who you are - but it seems that you are some sort of new guy who seems to have the power to edit and then say ' what are you talking about?" - I will let this slide for the benefit of other more serious and less controlling members..don't feel like playing a game with you at this moment - carry on.

[Oleg Bach]

Getting back to the anarchist issue that the G-20 people are leaderless and anarchistic -- it is evident that the G summit was useless - Russian and Canada shaking hands - America shanking and smiling - THEN - suddenly the day after the summit - they are picking up and arresting Russian spys? wtf? This is totally anarchistic...lawless disorderly - and now all we have is a billion plus bill - university students with crimminal records who will never be bondable or run for public office - all we did was destroy our future human resources...the best young hot heads and the most passionate have been taken out of the equation..crimminalized - now the corporates will recruit second rate talent and goons....this is an utter failure that lacked vision - You have a summit then the next day the radical and confused G gang turn on each other - when mutual co-operation should come first..instead more anarchy - top and bottom.

[lukin]

Not sure who you are - but it seems that you are some sort of new guy who seems to have the power to edit and then say ' what are you talking about?" - I will let this slide for the benefit of other more serious and less controlling members..don't feel like playing a game with you at this moment - carry on.

Easy on the paranoia Oleg. I just started a new thread, that's all. Your thread is still there. I did not see it when I made my thread. Sorry to have offended you, as that was not my intention.

[lukin]

Getting back to the anarchist issue that the G-20 people are leaderless and anarchistic -- it is evident that the G summit was useless - Russian and Canada shaking hands - America shanking and smiling - THEN - suddenly the day after the summit - they are picking up and arresting Russian spys? wtf? This is totally anarchistic...lawless disorderly - and now all we have is a billion plus bill - university students with crimminal records who will never be bondable or run for public office - all we did was destroy our future human resources...the best young hot heads and the most passionate have been taken out of the equation..crimminalized - now the corporates will recruit second rate talent and goons....this is an utter failure that lacked vision - You have a summit then the next day the radical and confused G gang turn on each other - when mutual co-operation should come first..instead more anarchy - top and bottom.

If the Black Bloq represents our future, we are in trouble.

[lukin]

Your funny..

Thanks for the entertainment.

Welfare in its delivery is Provincial and not to be confused with the "welfare state".

Every Province in Canada has Welfare and will continue to have welfare, be it the old Right Wing Social Credit or the Left Wing CCF or the Right Wing BC Liberals, the Right Wing Harris Conservatives, the Centre Right Ontario LIberals of McGuinty, any ALberta Government, Any Sask government and government and these are in General CONSERVATIVE and LIBERAL governments including the SASK party, because the Province would be far worse without it. And if that wasn't true it would have been eliminated decades ago.

Welfare is NOT popular. Welfare is NOT a vote getter. The Majority of the population dislike the idea of Welfare. And the Majority of those how vote are those working and in middle and upper middleclass families.

So, if you take a % of the population, stereotyped in the manner you have described, which may be supported by your anecdotal, then we wouldn't have it.

The reason we do have it is because your post is bullshit.

You may not like it, but I can point to a person I deal with who travels the globe today doing mergers and aquistions for a swiss firm based out of the US. She travels to India and China and helps purchase major CDN resources and companies. These actions have been one of the many factors to help move people from the Employment line to the Unemployment line.

WHile she, her sister and most of her family all broke out of the welfare trap, there is little argument that it put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

That horrible cradle to grave welfare state, put them through school, College and University. It helped pave their path for Economics and Law.

Unfortuneately today, she would likely say the same thing as you, as she never had the courage when she made it to the Bay Street, Wall street and California to stand up to those who would bash people who come from a home of little means.

Nice to have people like you shitting on others.

But I also have personal anectdotal evidence and I can tell you it those people who lost their businesses and had to use welfare because their is no EI are greatful today that it is there and they will rebound.

You just keep fretting about a pack of smokes while Billions are being bled from us.

Continue to call people Lazy while wealthy people who have all the potential to be much lazier and complain all the way to the bank.

Laziness and income are not the same.

If you didn't have welfare to bash it would be like the other thread where a person is taking potshots on the working poor.

Its easy to pick on the weak. Its much harder to get them out of where they are, but they will leave the system. It takes time, but it will happen.

The costs of removing it outweigh the benefits, or it would have been quashed long ago as it has no political support from the general public.

Your response is complete nonsense. Welfare is abused by many. I have no problem with the truly needy receiving welfare. People who need temporary welfare to help them achieve independence from the state should be applauded. However, too many people see welfare as an entitlement, a right. It is not. Many single mothers continue to have babies, qualifying for more welfare support with each one. I see that happening often. Not everyone subscribes to the theory of a Socialist Utopia.

[GostHacked]

So are you saying that they purposely allowed the violent protestors to do their thing on the first day, then used that as an excuse to crack down on all the peaceful protests the second day?

No I am saying that it could that undercover police mixed in with the protesters, enticing the violence which gives the rest of the police justification on cracking down on protesters.

[Born Free]

No I am saying that it could that undercover police mixed in with the protesters, enticing the violence which gives the rest of the police justification on cracking down on protesters.

..yer kidding right? At least I hope so because it makes no sense whatsoever. Absolutely none.

[Bonam]

3 - Guys looking to hook up with freaky protestor chicks for wild anarchist sex.

Pretty much the only legit reason to be there.

[dre]

Pretty much the only legit reason to be there.

Theres lots of good reasons to protest the G8 and the governments of its member states... I just dont know if these protesters are interested in them.

[Shady]

Well done billion dollar rent-a-pigs!

Why are they pigs? Most of these so-called pigs are just regular middle class people doing their job.

[dre]

Why are they pigs? Most of these so-called pigs are just regular middle class people doing their job.

Its a common name attributed to law enforcement or security workers. It all started back in 1809 in the town of Tamworth, with a fellow named Sir Robert Peel.

See... back in 1809, Sir Robert Peel entered the House of Commons in London - he developed a passion for Sandy Back pigs found in Ireland and began to breed them in Tamworth. Soon, these pigs were known as Tamworth pigs. Pig slang was commonplace in Tamworth because of this, it was in 1829 that the relation to police came into it.

Politicians were concerned about the way London was policed and Sir Robert Peel changed things - his changes resulted in the formation of the Metropolitan Police. This is why police are referred to as 'Bobbies' or 'Peelers'; they were Bobby's boys...

Due to the pig nature that Tamworth had become, the police suffered the same fate as other Tamworth products did: They became related to pigs. "

And there you have it! Contrary to popular belief, the police are actually NOT a real pork product!

Edited June 29, 2010 by dre

[GostHacked]

..yer kidding right? At least I hope so because it makes no sense whatsoever. Absolutely none.

I agree it does not make sense, however it has happened. And the fact it has happened before should not be easily dismissed whenever the possibility or allegation comes up.

[Jack Weber]

I was watching Michael Coren's show and The Agenda on TVO last night,and the debate seems to be shifting from the actions of the commie punks to the policing between Saturday and Sunday...

It seems to be that the policing was not forceful enough on Saturday,and on Sunday,an over reaction almost as a response to what the police did'nt do the previous day...

Edited June 29, 2010 by Jack Weber

[madmax]

Your response is complete nonsense. Welfare is abused by many.

There is no one who favours of abuse of any government program or handout or scheme. Not solely those who bottom feed. Why have you taken the time only to finger point at a certain target group?

I have no problem with the truly needy receiving welfare.

Then you support the Socialist value of welfare, as does every Province in the country.

People who need temporary welfare to help them achieve independence from the state should be applauded.

Maybe if top feeders weren't scamming the system, and conning the government of Billions, good people wouldn't have to take a long hard slide to Welfare. It is not an easy place to get to. Particularly if you have been a person of means. Thus it is not an easy thing to get back out of as the the trip to get there might take a few years and the trip out a similar length.

However, too many people see welfare as an entitlement, a right. It is not.

It is a government program with specific rules and services. And yes people who are on Welfare do believe they are entitled to the medical care that working poor cannot receive without it. Thus people are on welfare and working and paying back into the system because the medical benefits are a necessity to their quality of life.

I have no problem with this and wish medical/drug benefits could be extended to more people, especially those caught in the middle with too little work and too much for welfare, to qualify in order to receive drug coverage.

Many single mothers continue to have babies, qualifying for more welfare support with each one. I see that happening often.

You have a solution to prevent women from having babies?

Not everyone subscribes to the theory of a Socialist Utopia.

Nope but you made a case for welfare.

[lukin]

There is no one who favours of abuse of any government program or handout or scheme. Not solely those who bottom feed. Why have you taken the time only to finger point at a certain target group?

Then you support the Socialist value of welfare, as does every Province in the country.

Maybe if top feeders weren't scamming the system, and conning the government of Billions, good people wouldn't have to take a long hard slide to Welfare. It is not an easy place to get to. Particularly if you have been a person of means. Thus it is not an easy thing to get back out of as the the trip to get there might take a few years and the trip out a similar length.

It is a government program with specific rules and services. And yes people who are on Welfare do believe they are entitled to the medical care that working poor cannot receive without it. Thus people are on welfare and working and paying back into the system because the medical benefits are a necessity to their quality of life.

I have no problem with this and wish medical/drug benefits could be extended to more people, especially those caught in the middle with too little work and too much for welfare, to qualify in order to receive drug coverage.

You have a solution to prevent women from having babies?

Nope but you made a case for welfare.

No, but I did make a case for welfare reform. Quit trying to blame capitalism for all of society's problems.

[madmax]

No, but I did make a case for welfare reform. Quit trying to blame capitalism for all of society's problems.

We live in a society based on Capitalism. It CANNOT fix societies problems.

You made a case for Welfare. You have not offered any sort of Reform, although you have complained about abuse and women having babies.

One would be foolish to believe that there is no Abuse in Capitalism.

Conrad Black got away with 40 years + of abuse and is now a Convicted Fellon.

But not in Canada, only in the United States.

Canada needs tougher laws to go after these abusers of Capital.

Edited June 29, 2010 by madmax

[lukin]

We live in a society based on Capitalism. It CANNOT fix societies problems.

You made a case for Welfare. You have not offered any sort of Reform, although you have complained about abuse and women having babies.

One would be foolish to believe that there is no Abuse in Capitalism.

Conrad Black got away with 40 years + of abuse and is now a Convicted Fellon.

But not in Canada, only in the United States.

Canada needs tougher laws to go after these abusers of Capital.

People who are physically able should have to complete community service for their welfare cheque, so that they can get a sense of contributing to society. Welfare recipients should not be allowed to use their state money on cigarettes, alcohol, lottery tickets etc. If they are using their welfare for those things, then they are getting too much. The working class tax payer is the one who is exploited by paying more and more in taxes. Many of those working folk are your average middle-class citizen, like myself.

Madmax, are you saying that it would be better if Canada was similar to Cuba, North Korea, China, or any Eastern Bloc European country before the fall of communism?

[Molly]

A great truth of internet argument:

If your question is prefaced "Are you asking..." or "Are you saying...", the answer is "No." usally with the addendum,"Quit trying to put idiotic words in my mouth.", or something obscene about a strawman.

[Bryan]

are you saying that it would be better if Canada was similar to Cuba, North Korea, China, or any Eastern Bloc European country before the fall of communism?

Cuba has certainly made some mistakes, but they do a lot of things better than we do. There would be lessons to be learned on both sides.