56% of Canadians are anti-semites!

[Argus]

No you've stated an opinion.

I've stated indisputable fact no reasonable person would disagree with.

[The only thing I've managed to find on this is the Achille Lauro incident. Which resulted in the death of all of one person. So I'm supposed to compare the number of "Gypsies or Gays or Albanians or Blacks or natives" killed specifically on hijacked planes or cruise ships and compare it to one incident on a cruise ship where one jew was killed? Or are there more but they're hidden?

Apparently you haven't been living on this planet very long. Or else are willfully blind and ignorant about the numerous attacks on Jews over many decades. Now it's true that aircraft hijackings don't take place much these days because of intense security, but anyone taking as ludicrous a position as yours ought to at least have looked back to the time when they were. But we can go, even in recent times, from A Jewish school being firebombed in Montreal to a Jewish community centre and holocaust museum being attacked in separate incidents by gunmen in Los Angeles, to a Jewish centre being targeted and attacked in Mumbai, to suicide car bombers attacking synagogues in Istanbul to Jews killed in an attack on a Sinai resort or in synagogues from Tunisia to Moscow to Argentina.

That's all you got? Really? Let's start with something you might understand, My link

And against all that, which is practically off the top of my head, not at all a comprehensive listing of attacks on Jews over the last decade or so, you give me Cracked magazine which purportedly has a caricature unflattering to gypsies?! Uhhh... What?!

I have to wonder at the indescribably silly lengths to which certain individuals on this topic are going to attempt to dismiss the idea that Jews are the most threatened and attacked ethnic group in the world.

[Argus]

So's pretty much everyone, just depends on where you go.

Utter bullshit.

[Argus]

Indeed it's entirely irrelevant as justification of Israel's own atrocities.

Such as?

I'm interested in just what events you feel merit a term like atrocity.

Certainly Israel has made mistakes and has overreacted at times, and certainly individual Israelis have behaved in a criminal fashion at times. But all in all, Israel has behaved with admirable restraint when compared to its neighbours.

I remind people that when Syria faced a small uprising in the city of Hama it lined up artillery and tanks and within a few days killed more people than the Israelis have in the entire history of the Intifada.

No one seems much bothered by this for some reason, but it serves as a stark reminder of the difference in how Israel and Syria deal with such things. No Intifada is possible in Syria because all the demonstrators and their families would have been killed at the start.

[Remiel]

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. How many web sites can you find with people demanding the gypsies all be killed? How many books have been written which went to extraordinary lengths to show that really, no gypsies were killed in WW2 except maybe one or two? How many world leaders and terrorist leaders have made vicious and hateful comments and threats about gypsies? How many newspapers and magazines throughout the world carry racist caricatures and suggestions gypsies drink the blood of small children? How many terrorist incidents have targeted gypsies? How many gypsy day-care centres and schools have been attacked?

If you actually looked, I am sure you would be surprised.

And are armed guards necessary outside every gypsy church or school? If not, why not?

Well, you do not need armed guards specifically for Romani children if you just stick them all in delinquet schools like some places do.

The Roma have an unfortunately well-documented history of crime, in this country and many, many others, which makes them unpopular neighbours, and occasionally the victims of attacks.

What is well documented is the number of times Romani have been accused of crime and assumed to be culpable.

...a series of child kidnappings in Italy done supposedly by Romani women ... found that not even one of them was actually true.

But that's nothing compared to the number of organized groups, newspapers, etc, which attack Jews. High members of the Muslim world attack Jews as "pigs and monkeys" and their media depict them as evil murderers of children and worshipers of satan. Jewish schools and temples have been attacked throughout the world, including in Canada and the US.

When a Romani group is " driven off " as is often the case, do you think it is with harsh words alone?

You are adopting them in a frantic search for some other group you hope to somehow compare to Jews, but it's not working. You look increasingly like someone who resents the idea of any sympathy for Jews because of their being targeted and is desperately trying to find a reason why that sympathy should not exist.

Hardly. There is no doubt that Jews deserve sympathy for everything that has happened. What is less clear is that they deserve special sympathy elevating them beyond others people who suffer from atrocities happening today.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Remiel

[Bob]

Since when have Jews been "elevated beyond others who suffer"? Once you explain what you're getting at, please then explain the relevance of this charge to Israel's establishment and current battles with its enemies.

[Bryan]

Equating criticisms of Israel's military action with anti-semitism is infantile and it assures that the situation is never dealt with in a serious manner.

[dre]

Equating criticisms of Israel's military action with anti-semitism is infantile and it assures that the situation is never dealt with in a serious manner.

Dont worry, its only a couple of wackos that are trying to do that. Luckily few people listen to the freaky-fringe-tards.

[myata]

Such as?

Dictionary:

Related Words for : atrocity

atrociousness, barbarity, barbarousness, heinousness, inhumanity

Collective punishment such as destruction of homes is inhumane, barbaric and attrocious

Using live ammunition against adolescents is atrocious

Killing over a thousands of civilians in war started to retrieve two soldier is atrocious

Just what pops in the mind right away. However I'm not looking for another terminology debate so I'll qualify my earlier statement as "aggression".

No, nothing in the earlier history however tragic, should and could justify or legitimize any acts of aggression.

[Bob]

Dictionary:

Collective punishment such as destruction of homes is inhumane, barbaric and attrocious

Removing squatters is inhumane? Especially in areas vital to security? Alright.

Using live ammunition against adolescents is atrocious

That's a joke, right? You don't think teenagers (and even younger children, tragically) have been involved in terrorism murdering Israelis?

Killing over a thousands of civilians in war started to retrieve two soldier is atrocious

So the war war to rescue two soldiers and had nothing to do with preventing rocket fire and other terrorism into Israel? So lying about Israel's needs to defend itself is now your favourite pastime?

[myata]

I already said and many times over: no default excuses; coined phrases; labels should be accepted in this situation if we want to see any real progress going forward. Each episode of violence; aggression; mass deprivation of rights and mass killing must be investigated on its own merit, objectively and independently of the sides directly involved. And each such act determined to be an act of aggression; violence; mass deprivation of rights, etc must be reacted to in real and practical manner and in concert by international community to show the perpetrator, whoever it may have been found to be in any such episode, that behaviour of the kind will no longer be tolerated.

That is, if we want to see any real progress going forward.

[Bob]

I already said and many times over: no default excuses; coined phrases; labels should be accepted in this situation if we want to see any real progress going forward. Each episode of violence; aggression; mass deprivation of rights and mass killing must be investigated on its own merit, objectively and independently of the sides directly involved. And each such act determined to be an act of aggression; violence; mass deprivation of rights, etc must be reacted to in real and practical manner and in concert by international community to show the perpetrator, whoever it may have been found to be in any such episode, that behaviour of the kind will no longer be tolerated.

That is, if we want to see any real progress going forward.

Thank you for you opinion, without-a-doubt rooted in a full five-minutes of research on the subject. Another internet forum Google expert to the rescue. The irony of you criticizing "default excuses" and "coined phrases" is quite thick. We don't need "independent" kangaroo courts who seek to deny Israel's right to self-defense. Sorry to break it to you, but Israel doesn't need your permission to protect its citizens from those who want to murder us.

[myata]

Thank you for you opinion, without-a-doubt rooted in a full five-minutes of research on the subject. Another internet forum Google expert to the rescue. The irony of you criticizing "default excuses" and "coined phrases" is quite thick. We don't need "independent" kangaroo courts who seek to deny Israel's right to self-defense. Sorry to break it to you, but Israel doesn't need your permission to protect its citizens from those who want to murder us.

My comments aren't addressed though to zealots on either side who are prepared to use any excuse to justify virtually any act of hostility and aggression. Only to rational viewers prepared to take an objective view of the situation and looking for ways to its deescalation and eventual resolution. Think how it played out e.g. in South Afica.

[Bob]

Well, Israel and Palestine isn't South Africa. There are no meaningful parallels to be drawn between the two. Clearly you're trying to imply that Israelis are counterparts of whites and Palestinians the counterparts of black in SA during the time of Apartheid. Of course, though, let's not take a side. Supporting terrorism in the name of "balance" and "objectivity". How principled of you.

Spare me the "zealout" accusations, you've clearly staked out your position in the anti-Israel, pro-terrorism "peace" camp.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Bob

[Argus]

Using live ammunition against adolescents is atrocious

Shooting a teenager throwing rocks at you might be questionable but hardly constitutes an atrocity.

Killing over a thousands of civilians in war started to retrieve two soldier is atrocious

It's a pity the terrorists insist on firing from and hiding among crowds of civilians, but the deaths of those civilians are entirely the responsibility of their own terrorist groups - who they voted for, btw.

Just what pops in the mind right away. However I'm not looking for another terminology debate so I'll qualify my earlier statement as "aggression".

You never heard the best defense is a strong offense?

[Bryan]

Clearly you're trying to imply that Israelis are counterparts of whites and Palestinians the counterparts of black in SA during the time of Apartheid.

IIt would have to be a seriously reality impaired partisan position to imply that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is NOT an apartheid situation.

[Argus]

IIt would have to be a seriously reality impaired partisan position to imply that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is NOT an apartheid situation.

Palestinians are not citizens or residents of Israel. Do you believe that Jordan and Syria and Egypt and Lebanon are Apartheid states? After all, they have Palestinians in "refugee camps" who were born there, grew up there, had kids there, and yet STILL they don't have the same rights as citizens, and no chance to get them.

[Bryan]

Palestinians are not citizens or residents of Israel. Do you believe that Jordan and Syria and Egypt and Lebanon are Apartheid states? After all, they have Palestinians in "refugee camps" who were born there, grew up there, had kids there, and yet STILL they don't have the same rights as citizens, and no chance to get them.

I see. Other people treat the Palestinians like crap too, so that makes it OK.

[Argus]

I see. Other people treat the Palestinians like crap too, so that makes it OK.

Apparently you only care when Jews don't treat them nicely. Have I got that right?

Edited June 19, 2010 by Argus

[Bryan]

Apparently you only care when Jews don't treat them nicely. Have I got that right?

You must be reading a different thread. This one is about Israel. Feel free to start one about Syria if you'd like.

[Bob]

I see. Other people treat the Palestinians like crap too, so that makes it OK.

Israel owes nothing to a group of people that have been hostile to the Jewish presence since the 19th century. In Judea and Samaria there is an Israeli presence out of necessity for Israeli security, there is simply no other solution to a group of people committed to Israel's destruction than a military presence. You think Israel likes having to be in a position where it must secure a group of people who are openly hostile to its existence? Ever talk to a 21-year-old Israeli who just spent three years of his life in service as a border police officer? How about the families of victims of terrorism originating from the Palestinian territories? You think Palestinians have some sort of right to have the same standard of living as Israel, without any of the responsibilities? If the Palestinians are so downtrodden (they're not), they're free to submit applications to live somewhere else. If you care, why don't you sponsor a Palestinian to come move to Canada?

[Argus]

You must be reading a different thread. This one is about Israel. Feel free to start one about Syria if you'd like.

But you're outraged, OUTRAGED at Israel being an apartheid state!

Surely you must be equally outraged at the other "apartheid states"!

I mean, why wouldn't you be!?

[Bryan]

But you're outraged, OUTRAGED at Israel being an apartheid state!

Surely you must be equally outraged at the other "apartheid states"!

I mean, why wouldn't you be!?

Like I said, you're obviously reading a different thread. I never discussed any of that.

It does prove my point though, that it's intentional obfuscation for the express purpose of avoiding rational discussion.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Bryan

[Bob]

Like I said, you're obviously reading a different thread. I never discussed any of that.

It does prove my point though, that it's intentional obfuscation for the express purpose of avoiding rational discussion.

In your world, rational discussion means drawing parallels between Apartheid in South Africa and the current Israeli-Arabic conflict. Nevermind the fact that you and I both know you've never so much as read one book about either subject.

[wyly]

Pink triangle for homosexuals? Blacks executed ASAP? What blacks were in Europe at the time? WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! You are just making things up as you go along - there were no pink or purple triangles! There were virtually no blacks in Europe!

you claimed to know evrything about the holocaust the Nazi's applied the coloured patches to all they deemed undesirable(marked for elimination)...yes there were black africans in europe because you're ignorant of the fact does not make it untrue, about 30,000 in Germany, many more in the occupied countries, blacks in the French military were executed outright...blacks in general were imprisoned sterilized and killed...

Roma persecuted years before the Jews, as we've been persecuted for thousands of years?

the Nazi persecution of the Roma commenced before that of the Jews FACT....Roma have been persecuted(raped, enslaved, murdered, attempts at extermination) in Europe as long they've been there at least a thousand years and they're still persecuted,what the Jews have gone through is no worse...and this supposed persecution of jews for thousands of years is no different than any other ethnic group has gone through...here's an idea bob let's give the Roma half of Israel! or maybe half of Canada and we can start with your house are you up for that?

How can someone be so ignorant? The stupidity of this post simply cannot be ignored. You know nothing about the Holocaust. Do yourself a favour, go to a Holocaust museum, leave the cave you live in and get out into the world. Educate yourself. Read a book on the Holocaust, just do something! The lesson to be learned from the Holocaust IS NOT to hate Jews and Israel!

the ignorance is your's alone, you should write a book titled "the history of the world according to bob and zionist propaganda"....do yourself a favour and actually consult a history book not written by zionist sources...

Reading posts like your embarasses me that you're a Canadian - how can we have such ignorance and hate in this beautiful country? Shameful.

what's shamefull that we have such historically ignorant people such as yourself in this country, that's really embarassing doesn't reflect well on our educational system, or did you go to a zionist school?...I can back up my knowledge, you cannot...oh! right I forgot you went to zionist museum in Israel so you know everything...

Trust me, judging from your posts you are in NO position to be talking about European history. At least I can admit ignorance on matters.

your knowledge on the subject is obvious, you didn't know that the Roma were exterminated, you didn't know that other groups targeted for special treatment were marked with coloured patches, you didn't know that blacks were also exterminated...you don't know much about anything do you bob unless it comes from the zionist handbook of historical facts...every post you make is filled with zionist myth but short on historical fact... Edited June 20, 2010 by wyly

[justme]

We've got a huge Arab and Muslim population, and it's growing - we know that they hate Israel, by and large.

Canada has taken in more permanent residents from Pakistan than the US and UK from 1999-2006, and in some years, more than both the US and UK combined. It's worth noting that Osama is more popular in Pakistan than Obama is in the US. And, of course, stating that the US and the UK are the two countries that Canada has the most in common with in the world is simply stating the obvious. However, this trend has started to reverse since 2007.

Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/research-stats/facts2008.pdf (Canada - Permanent residents by source country pg. 23)