Relatives of 9/11 victims adopt Islam

[Machjo]

Seeing that another thread in this forum has members expressing concern over an Islamic Centre being built near Ground Zero, i'd be curious as to what those same members or others think of family members of victims of 9/11 adopting Islam. Here's a video on the subject:

It's interesting to note how one of the ladies referring to her family having had a hard time accepting her adoption of Islam. I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be with so many bigots thinking that it's wrong to build a mosque around Ground Zero;they must be raving mad at relatives of victims of 9/11 exercising their freedom of religion.

[Shady]

i'd be curious as to what those same members or others think of family members of victims of 9/11 adopting Islam. Here's a video on the subject:

I say who cares. There's probably tens of thousands of family members of victims of 9/11. Is this suppose to mean something?

I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be with so many bigots thinking that it's wrong to build a mosque around Ground Zero

Ah, the classic leftwinger argument. Agree with me or you're a racist, a bigot, or a homophobe, anti-women, anti-this, anti-that.

they must be raving mad at relatives of victims of 9/11 exercising their freedom of religion.

Who's mad? Where? Or maybe just in your head!

[Machjo]

I say who cares. There's probably tens of thousands of family members of victims of 9/11. Is this suppose to mean something?

To me personally it means nothing since I believe in freedom of religion. However, I put this up out of curiosity to see how some of those who are irate at the building of a mosque near Ground Zero would see this.

Ah, the classic leftwinger argument. Agree with me or you're a racist, a bigot, or a homophobe, anti-women, anti-this, anti-that.[/quote

Funny that. Most left-wingers consider me right-leaning, while most right-wingers consider me left-leaning. I guess it's easier to just label me, and in the end it says more about you in relation to me than it does about me.

Who's mad? Where? Or maybe just in your head!

Well, let's start with this:

Just putting a Mosque around there is not a big problem, if there is demand for it. But having it publicized to coincide with the tenth anniversary of the attacks really would be a slap in the face. "10 years ago we blew up your buildings, and now we are building our Mosque here instead! Muahaha!"

The whole opportunity for moderate Muslims line is just crap either way, however. Who are they gonna bridge gaps with in person? How many non-Muslims are gonna go into the Mosque? If they wanna bridge gaps, that's done on the internet and through mass media in the 21st century, not in a physical building.

Why should he feel that it's somehow a slap in the face?

All you have to do is Google it to see many seem irate at this for some reason, when all it is is freedom of religion.

[Shady]

Why should he feel that it's somehow a slap in the face?

Sounds like he was just stating his opinion. He didn't sound particularly angry to me. Some people might see it as a bit of a slap in the face in that the perpetrators of 911 were all Muslims. You really should be more open to other people's opinions and ideas.

[Shady]

All you have to do is Google it to see many seem irate at this for some reason, when all it is is freedom of religion.

Some would also see it as a bit ironic. Seeing as though freedom of religion barely exists, if at all, in pretty much every Muslim country.

[Sir Bandelot]

Some would also see it as a bit ironic. Seeing as though freedom of religion barely exists, if at all, in pretty much every Muslim country.

Yeah, but if we follow your philosophy wouldn't we end up just like them? How would it be different.

It seems to me that mistreating otherwise peaceful moderate mulsims only gives justification to the hate speech coming from those radical imams. We gain nothing in putting down the westernized muslims, only make them resent us and some of them will be driven right into the arms of the extremist nutters.

[Machjo]

Yeah, but if we follow your philosophy wouldn't we end up just like them? How would it be different.

It seems to me that mistreating otherwise peaceful moderate mulsims only gives justification to the hate speech coming from those radical imams. We gain nothing in putting down the westernized muslims, only make them resent us and some of them will be driven right into the arms of the extremist nutters.

Forget Westernized Muslims. What about Western Muslims, those who adopt Islam as adults? Do they suddenly become less Western?

I like this video:

as it reveals some of the experiences and fears and emotions of a recent devotee of Islam as she learns to adapt to a new reality in a world that is somewhat hostile to her new-found faith:

Why should she feel apprehensive about wearing a veil? That does reveal something about her, in her lack of strength to just do what she thinks is right, and she admits to that quite openly. But it also reveals something about us since her result from how she perceives others to view Islam, and that of course will be shaped by her observations of others' reactions to Islam.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Machjo

[Michael Hardner]

Some would also see it as a bit ironic. Seeing as though freedom of religion barely exists, if at all, in pretty much every Muslim country.

What religious country does allow freedom of religion ?

[Machjo]

An interesting video on how a family copes with the conversion of their teenaged daughter to Islam:

[Shady]

What religious country does allow freedom of religion ?

Pretty much every country in the West, founded on a religion other than Islam. Oh, and Israel.

[Shady]

An interesting video on how a family copes with the conversion of their teenaged daughter to Islam:

In Islamic countries, do you know how their families cope with children who convert to a religion other than Islam? They kill them.

[Guest TrueMetis]

In Islamic countries, do you know how their families cope with children who convert to a religion other than Islam? They kill them.

So what? Should we do the same? If you use those backwards countries as you measuring stick I'm going to make sure I never meet you in real life.

[Machjo]

In Islamic countries, do you know how their families cope with children who convert to a religion other than Islam? They kill them.

So what are you proposing:

that because countries that associate themselves with Islam choose to corrupt the religion, that Western countries ought to stoop to their level?

[Machjo]

In Islamic countries, do you know how their families cope with children who convert to a religion other than Islam? They kill them.

It would also seem that the Qur'an disapproves of how they deal with non-Muslims:

Let there be no compulsion in Religion.

(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)

And are you saying that you believe that a person ought to be considered guilty of a crime by association?

[DogOnPorch]

It would also seem that the Qur'an disapproves of how they deal with non-Muslims:

Let there be no compulsion in Religion.

(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)

And are you saying that you believe that a person ought to be considered guilty of a crime by association?

They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.

Koran 9:74

[bloodyminded]

In Islamic countries, do you know how their families cope with children who convert to a religion other than Islam? They kill them.

Oh, I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims do not kill their convert children. To think so is delusional.

[Argus]

Forget Westernized Muslims. What about Western Muslims, those who adopt Islam as adults? Do they suddenly become less Western?

Is this normally done after a head injury?

I would consider any adult in the West who chooses to adopt a highly conservative, restrictive religion to be kind of wierd, personally.

[Argus]

So what are you proposing:

that because countries that associate themselves with Islam choose to corrupt the religion, that Western countries ought to stoop to their level?

If the religion is corrupted by that kind of influence should we be accepting its members into Canada?

[Michael Hardner]

Pretty much every country in the West, founded on a religion other than Islam. Oh, and Israel.

So Canada is the Christian Dominion of Canada ?

This is another example of framing the questions so that Islam is slammed and Christianity is beatified whereas it's actually separation of church and state, with tolerance of religion that is the magic formula.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[Argus]

So Canada is the Christian Dominion of Canada ?

This is another example of framing the questions so that Islam is slammed and Christianity is beatified whereas it's actually separation of church and state, with tolerance of religion that is the magic formula.

And why would you say that virtually all Christian nations have grown into political areas tolerant of other religions yet Muslim nations have not?

[M.Dancer]

And why would you say that virtually all Christian nations have grown into political areas tolerant of other religions yet Muslim nations have not?

The history of Europe is very unique. Start with Middle Ages and Universities open to all who could afford tuition; teaching the Liberal Arts...move to the reformation, followed by the French and American revolutions, enfranchisement and culminating with the holocaust and the second world.

[Michael Hardner]

And why would you say that virtually all Christian nations have grown into political areas tolerant of other religions yet Muslim nations have not?

There are huge qualifications to what you post, but generally I agree with that.

It's another thing altogether to essentially credit or condemn the religion for these events when it is the falling-away of religion that is associated with the country's advance.

[Michael Hardner]

The history of Europe is very unique. Start with Middle Ages and Universities open to all who could afford tuition; teaching the Liberal Arts...move to the reformation, followed by the French and American revolutions, enfranchisement and culminating with the holocaust and the second world.

Also add in that during the reformation, a key ingredient in the birth of corporate ventures was the allowance of lending money - related to indulgences and the corruption of Christian values themselves...

[GostHacked]

They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.

Koran 9:74

That seems to be a basic tenant in the Christian Bible as well. God will punish them and judge them at the Pearly Gates if they do not follow God-Allah-Yaweh-ect-ect-ect.

Replace Allah for God, and you have basically what the Bible says.

[bloodyminded]

That seems to be a basic tenant in the Christian Bible as well. God will punish them and judge them at the Pearly Gates if they do not follow God-Allah-Yaweh-ect-ect-ect.

Replace Allah for God, and you have basically what the Bible says.

It's virtually the same god.