Why the hate for harper?

[Molly]

Oh, gosh, yes... that list is endless.

One that particularly chapped my britches was the deemed federal title to all those lovely grain-tank rail cars, purchased by the Canadian Wheat Board using money that belonged solely to producers, reciepts for sold grain.... Old news, but memorable nonetheless.

Since Grant Devine has already been mentioned: he was fond explaining a lack of industrial 'value-added' developement in Saskatchewan by pointing at freight rates making it cheaper to ship a carload of calves, along with all of the feed it would take to finish them to 'central' Canada, and to ship the butchered meat back to Sasktchewan-- than it was to ship just the butchered meat from Sasktchewan headed east. That sort of thing makes establishing a meat packing industry kind of tough.

[Moonbox]

This is a cautionary tale for Alberta, you may be wealthy now, but the well will run dry or the world may change in such a way that no one wants to buy what you have for sale. Then you too will be a have not province, and I somehow suspect that the RoC will not soon forget the disdain with which we were met.

Let them be haughty all they want. In 40-50 years nobody will need their oil anymore anyways. Then it's back to good 'ol Ontario to carry the nation...

[wyly]

Oh, gosh, yes... that list is endless.

One that particularly chapped my britches was the deemed federal title to all those lovely grain-tank rail cars, purchased by the Canadian Wheat Board using money that belonged solely to producers, reciepts for sold grain.... Old news, but memorable nonetheless.

Since Grant Devine has already been mentioned: he was fond explaining a lack of industrial 'value-added' developement in Saskatchewan by pointing at freight rates making it cheaper to ship a carload of calves, along with all of the feed it would take to finish them to 'central' Canada, and to ship the butchered meat back to Sasktchewan-- than it was to ship just the butchered meat from Sasktchewan headed east. That sort of thing makes establishing a meat packing industry kind of tough.

Devine destroyed the Sakatchewan economy...which is why his party was wiped out, they left such a bad situation that the conservative party had to change it's name to cleanse it's self of the stench...

the Crow freight SUBSIDIZED grain shipments out of the province the Federal government paid 300 million a year to make prairie grain competitive on the world market...within 4 years of canceling the Crow agreement shipping costs tripled...

and Saskachewan had and still has a very successful meat packing industry

Edited June 2, 2010 by wyly

[Molly]

Devine destroyed the Sakatchewan economy...which is why his party was wiped out, they left such a bad situation that the conservative party had to change it's name to cleanse it's self of the stench...

the Crow freight SUBSIDIZED grain shipments out of the province the Federal government paid 300 million a year to make prairie grain competitive on the world market...within 4 years of canceling the Crow agreement shipping costs tripled...

and Saskachewan had and still has a very successful meat packing industry

Wow. Don't you feel just a little foolish wailing about the Devine boogieman, like he was Diablo incarnate? For someone who can say with a straight face that "the problem in sask was always low market value for commodities", vehemently denying that internal actions/philosophy had anything to do with the Alta/Sask prosperity differential, it seems just a tad inconsistent.

The Crow rate was a statutory rate intended to provide a subsidy of the railroads, by farmers... and that's exactly what it was until into the 1970's when inflation caught up and reversed the flow. The Feed Freight Assistance Act, though, directly subsidized the shipment of prairie feed grains for domestic use, wiping out any competitive advantage of feeding it to livestock at point of production.

And... truckers still make bread and butter hauling Saskatchewan steers to Alberta. Less than one in three sticks around for finish, much less slaughter.

[Argus]

Only an outsider would see these side bars as off topic. They're indirectly related to Mr. Harper as he represents a great many of the issues facing our country. He was a member and still is of a party that largely represents western interests,

He does? Geeze, I guess me and the other 2 million Ontarions who voted conservative don't count, nor the 70 seats in the party which are in Ontario or east?

s not particularly gay friendly.

Neither, by the same measure, is Barrack Obama.

[Argus]

Who'da thunk it? This just goes to reinforce my belief the tories are the worst in the world at public relations and image building.

Stephan Harper with a sense of humour? Cracking jokes and doing impersonations?

He has a piercing sense of humour that on a good day, aides attest, could give Jon Stewart a run for his money. Another unknown talent is his capacity as an impersonator. Mr. Harper cracks up his cabinet on occasion with splendid imitations of those across the floor facing him in Question Period.

He comes from (next closest thing) a family of accountants, actually. Once asked why he didn’t follow in their footsteps, he quipped that he lacked the magnetism for that profession.

Lawrence Martin

[Shakeyhands]

I'm curious to know when Albertans will get over something that happened 25+ years ago?

[Argus]

I'm curious to know when Albertans will get over something that happened 25+ years ago?

Ever looked at a Quebec license plate? Does that make you curious too?

[Molly]

I'm curious to know when Albertans will get over something that happened 25+ years ago?

I'm wondering how long it would take you to get over similar treatment.

A good many decades, I'd imagine. You'd likely take the clear remembrance to your grave, and teach your children about it, too.

(I'd agree that it's pointless to bring it up in discussion with non-Albertans- probably always was pointless. Those folks thought it was small enough spuds to be justified then. There's certainly no good reason to think they'd understand the magnitude of it now.)

Edited June 3, 2010 by Molly

[Dave_ON]

He does? Geeze, I guess me and the other 2 million Ontarions who voted conservative don't count, nor the 70 seats in the party which are in Ontario or east?

Where precisely is the largest concetration of seats? I'm not talking votes as given our system number of votes is relative to the region you're looking at. Now let's move east, the further east you go the fewer CPC seats you see. Clearly many in Ontario, especially those of us in Urban Ontario, do not feel he represents our interests. Hence he's stuck in rural Ontario ridings. The few Urban ridings the CPC holds are by thin hairs like KW by 70 or so votes, London West by around 2k.

Check out Elections Canada, for percentatge of voter support. The further east you go the lower that support gets for the CPC. Exceptions being PEI where they have 30%, keeping in mind their are only 4 seats in PEI and the CPC won a seat as well as NB where they won 6 of the 10.

This to me says it's not just me that's under the impression they represent western interests, but that most of the west is under the same impression that I am.

Neither, by the same measure, is Barrack Obama.

Why do I care what Barrack Obama thinks? When did I even mention him? We're talking specifically about Harper what's with the non-sequitor? I guess I fail to see how this is at all relevant to the point I made.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Dave_ON

[Keepitsimple]

Check out Elections Canada, for percentatge of voter support. The further east you go the lower that support gets for the CPC. Exceptions being PEI where they have 30%, keeping in mind their are only 4 seats in PEI and the CPC won a seat as well as NB where they won 6 of the 10.

This to me says it's not just me that's under the impression they represent western interests, but that most of the west is under the same impression that I am.

OK....going East, we've established that in Ontario the Conservatives are big winners, in Quebec - nobody wins, in NB they won 6 out of 10 seats, and you've pointed out that they are relatively strong in PEI at 36.2%. That leaves NS and NFLD. In NS, the NDP won 2 seats, the Liberals 5 seats and the Conservatives 3 seats with all three parties very close in % of votes ranging from 26.1% for the Conservatives to 29.8% for the Libs - that's pretty competitive. In NFLD, we had the Danny Williams fiasco and the anybody-but-Harper campaign that indeed led to the collapse of the Conservative vote.....but one only need to look at the 2006 election where the Conservatives and Liberals were tied at 42% of the vote to know that there is a good deal of support that could return.

No Dave.....the Conservatives are today the only real National, coast to coast party. The last inroad that have to be traversed is Fortress Toronto.....and Jason Kenney has been doing a pretty nice job at making new Canadians comfortable in the Conservative Big Tent. Because the bloom is so far off the Liberal rose, there's a good chance that the NDP will pick up votes in Toronto, the Conservatives will gain some.....and the split will help Conservatives come up the middle in some Toronto ridings.

[waldo]

No Dave.....the Conservatives are today the only real National, coast to coast party. The last inroad that have to be traversed is Fortress Toronto.....and Jason Kenney has been doing a pretty nice job at making new Canadians comfortable in the Conservative Big Tent.

Conservative Big Tent!!!

just can't get that ever elusive majority - hey, Simple? Just what's keeping Harper from gettin er done?

[Argus]

Where precisely is the largest concetration of seats? I'm not talking votes as given our system number of votes is relative to the region you're looking at. Now let's move east, the further east you go the fewer CPC seats you see. Clearly many in Ontario, especially those of us in Urban Ontario, do not feel he represents our interests. Hence he's stuck in rural Ontario ridings. The few Urban ridings the CPC holds are by thin hairs like KW by 70 or so votes, London West by around 2k.

You know, aside from the Yukon and Newfoundland, all I see are tiny red specks. You guys aren't much of a national party any more. Even in the urban seats you hold your success is largely due to very disproportionate strength among immigrants, and to some extent, Francophones and Gays. How come nobody else seems to like you?

Electoral Map

Edited June 3, 2010 by Argus

[Shakeyhands]

I'm wondering how long it would take you to get over similar treatment.

A good many decades, I'd imagine. You'd likely take the clear remembrance to your grave, and teach your children about it, too.

(I'd agree that it's pointless to bring it up in discussion with non-Albertans- probably always was pointless. Those folks thought it was small enough spuds to be justified then. There's certainly no good reason to think they'd understand the magnitude of it now.)

Doubtful. At some point people need to grow up and acty like big people instead of whining constantly at the same refrain.

[Wild Bill]

Conservative Big Tent!!!

just can't get that ever elusive majority - hey, Simple? Just what's keeping Harper from gettin er done?

You're right, Harper hasn't really added to his support. However, Ignatieff has not only failed to increase the Liberals in the polls but has actually lost ground!

When neither of the two main parties are successful in increasing their popular support it rather makes the polls a null factor. You can make all the comments you want about the Tory Tent but the Liberal tent is just a "pup".

[Smallc]

Doubtful. At some point people need to grow up and acty like big people instead of whining constantly at the same refrain.

Precisely. Even Quebec has moved on from the past better than Alberta.

[wyly]

Doubtful. At some point people need to grow up and acty like big people instead of whining constantly at the same refrain.

the whiners are the banjo picking extreme right, give it time they're beginning to die off... don't confuse them with those who are voting conservative to protect their oil patch jobs...

[jbg]

Only an outsider would see these side bars as off topic. They're indirectly related to Mr. Harper as he represents a great many of the issues facing our country...A great deal of what occurs in the country is blamed/credited to the sitting PM. It is how a PM handles himself with these issues, whether it be social, economic, or cultural, these define a PM and the countries general feel towards him. I don't think at the end of the day Mr. Harper will be looked upon favorably by anyone.

By your logic everything that goes wrong in Canada is chargeable to Harper. I see them as being off-topic since, for example, I don't know Harper to have taken any particular position on, say, gay couples' parenting. And frankly, that's a fringe, not a mainstream issue.

He was a member and still is of a party that largely represents western interests, is not particularly gay friendly.....

And besides suggesting cuts in public spectacles gay pride parades how has he hurt gays or gay rights? I have nothing against equal rights for gays; gayness does not have to be forced on an unwilling population.

The West feels he's not doing enough, the East feels he's pandering to the West. He screwed himself in Quebec. Yes I'd say to anyone who has their ear to the ground it's quite clear how all these posts point back to the rather broad topic of "Why the hate for Harper". Ask an open ended question you're bound to get a wide variety of responses.

Sounds to me that if he's "pandering" to anyone its to Canada as a whole. In other words, and returning to my theme at the beginning of this post, I don't think Harper wakes up every morning fretting abouit whether or not gay or lesbian couples can successfully raise children.

[Smallc]

I have nothing against equal rights for gays; gayness does not have to be forced on an unwilling population.

I enjoy when people make clueless statements.

[Jack Weber]

Precisely. Even Quebec has moved on from the past better than Alberta.

Stop that!!!

The cabal of Wild Rose Whiners will be along to straighten you out!!!

One of the "Alberta Patriots" really told me off a few days ago!!!

[Argus]

Precisely. Even Quebec has moved on from the past better than Alberta.

And you think this why, exactly? I mean, have you ever even seen a Quebecer in your entire long life?

Edited June 4, 2010 by Argus

[Smallc]

And you think this why, exactly? I mean, have you ever even seen a Quebecer in your entire long life?

I have. Albertans are far crankier at the rest of us.

[jbg]

I enjoy when people make clueless statements.

What I meant was why the distinction? Why not have a "pride day" for red-heads?

[BubberMiley]

Why not have a "pride day" for red-heads?

Probably because redheads aren't held in contempt by people like you like gay people are.

[Argus]

I have. Albertans are far crankier at the rest of us.

I asked what makes you say Quebec has "moved on".