Coalition Government

[ToadBrother]

And you think that's a non-story?

It's a non-story because no one has ever questioned the veracity of EKOS polling. If they had, you would have a story. If they don't, you have a dangling conjunction "Frank Graves is a Liberal supporter and..."

[Keepitsimple]

It's a non-story because no one has ever questioned the veracity of EKOS polling. If they had, you would have a story. If they don't, you have a dangling conjunction "Frank Graves is a Liberal supporter and..."

Forget it.......

[waldo]

And people wonder why Liberals are referred to as "elitist" . If your educational statistics are correct, then the Liberal Party serves as a perfect example of why elitist intellectualism can often be trumped by Joe Citizen's common sense.

gee Simple, the only elitist attachment referenced, or implied, is yours... and even without confirming the stats yourself, you're fully prepared to unleash an apparent defensive challenge, one launched upon the, as you say, common sense backs of those you would label as the, "right-wing, less educated Joe Citizens". So, of course, you keep on, keeping on, reinforcing the stereotype that Conservatives don't trust those fancy-pants educamated types with all their high-flalutin book learnin! Oh wait... it's not a stereotype after all - is it? Really goes to the heart of your denial of AGW climate change science, hey Simple?

[Keepitsimple]

gee Simple, the only elitist attachment referenced, or implied, is yours... and even without confirming the stats yourself, you're fully prepared to unleash an apparent defensive challenge, one launched upon the, as you say, common sense backs of those you would label as the, "right-wing, less educated Joe Citizens". So, of course, you keep on, keeping on, reinforcing the stereotype that Conservatives don't trust those fancy-pants educamated types with all their high-flalutin book learnin! Oh wait... it's not a stereotype after all - is it? Really goes to the heart of your denial of AGW climate change science, hey Simple?

Waldo.....I've come to appreciate that you are always a contrarian.....always 100% right - there's never a gray area with you. You're never balanced or positive in your remarks.....always negative. That's why I've alawys said you're the poster-child for narcissism....the smartest man in the room, failing to notice that the room is empty.

[waldo]

That's why I've alawys said you're the poster-child for narcissism....

yes, that's right - you're a poster-child for the common sense, less educated, right-wing, Joe Citizens you champion. As stated previously, I'm just confused about how you secured your medical credentials, particularly in light of your recent highlighting of your personal distrust of higher education and the learned.

[August1991]

My question is, since it appears as though we will be in a minority government for some time to come why not settle on a coalition.

The UK and Canadian situations are different. Why? Because a coalition in Canada would require the involvement of the Bloc Québécois.

This fact is the dirty secret of Canadian federal politics.

I flipped through this thread and there is no mention of the Bloc (at most, a mention of three parties... )

----

If I were looking for a European comparison, it would be Italy between 1950 and 1990. Then the Communist Party was anathema like the Bloc is in Canada. It was the elephant in the living room, just as the Bloc is in this thread.

Edited May 10, 2010 by August1991

[Smallc]

The UK and Canadian situations are different. Why? Because a coalition in Canada would require the involvement of the Bloc Québécois.

Right now...yes. Going forward...maybe. There will probably be coalitions at some point in the future in this country.

[August1991]

Right now...yes. Going forward...maybe. There will probably be coalitions at some point in the future in this country.

As long as Canadian conservatives remain united, any coalition federal government would require the involvement of the Bloc.

The situation in the UK and Canada are fundamentally different.

----

As I have often argued, Canadian politics are not driven by ideology - regionalism drives Canadian federal politics.

We cannot use American or British ideological debates to understand our federal politics.

Edited May 10, 2010 by August1991

[waldo]

As long as Canadian conservatives remain united, any coalition federal government would require the involvement of the Bloc.

The situation in the UK and Canada are fundamentally different.

perhaps not as fundamentally different as you might imply... the Liberal Democrats are said to be actively pursuing both coalition options. If the traditional irreconcilable differences between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives remain, the alternate coalition with Labour would also involve Scottish and Welsh Nationalist parties (in order to reach the majority vote count).

[Smallc]

As long as Canadian conservatives remain united, any coalition federal government would require the involvement of the Bloc.

That's not necessarily true.

[wyly]

interesting item I read in todays G & M...the Liberal Democrats are seeking election reform as a price for their support form the Conservatives and likely the same deal from Labour as well...the Liberals only have 9% of the seats even though they received 23% of the vote...it relects our screwed up electoral system perfectly...

[Keepitsimple]

interesting item I read in todays G & M...the Liberal Democrats are seeking election reform as a price for their support form the Conservatives and likely the same deal from Labour as well...the Liberals only have 9% of the seats even though they received 23% of the vote...it relects our screwed up electoral system perfectly...

As you've seen, the Brits are afraid of a hung Parliament that results in a coalition. That's because it leads to comprimise which on the surface sounds like a nice touchy-feely way of operating. But in reality, it means spending more Government money to appease the various pet-projects of the smaller parties. Coalition Governments mean bigger governments and more spending. It also means decisive action is difficult. Our political system has led us to being one of the most stable and continually prosporous countries in the world. Take a look at what is happening all over Europe with the debt crisis. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. For those who simply yearn for a return to power by the Liberals, just wait your turn until Canadians are ready to return them. It will happen. Politics goes in cycles.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[ToadBrother]

As you've seen, the Brits are afraid of a hung Parliament that results in a coalition.

If the Brits are so afraid of it, why have they basically been steering in that direction for well over six months? Everyone knew last fall that the odds of anyone achieving a majority of seats in the House of Commons was all but impossible. Clearly the British electorate (or as some have observed viewing vote counts, more specifically the Scottish electorate) seemed very deliberately to have chosen a hung Parliament.

That's because it leads to comprimise which on the surface sounds like a nice touchy-feely way of operating. But in reality, it means spending more Government money to appease the various pet-projects of the smaller parties. Coalition Governments mean bigger governments and more spending. It also means decisive action is difficult. Our political system has led us to being one of the most stable and continually prosporous countries in the world. Take a look at what is happening all over Europe with the debt crisis. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. For those who simply yearn for a return to power by the Liberals, just wait your turn until Canadians are ready to return them. It will happen. Politics goes in cycles.

Britain doesn't have the leeway that Canada has had over the last couple of years. Even with the major infusions of EU cash to Greece to prop up the Euro and the Common Market, Britain, already having posted huge deficits, has absolutely no choice but to start seriously reigning in spending. Couple that with the very real possibility of a renewed European (and possibly global) recession stemming from the Greek crisis (not to mention the Spanish and Portugese Crises, the Irish seemingly are starting to deal with their own structural issues), it's irrelevant how much the LibDems might want to push the Conservatives towards spending lots of money, it can't happen.

In fact, this shotgun marriage that seems to be happening between the Conservatives and LibDems is very much happening in light of the serious road that Parliament is going to have to steer over the next few years. The LibDems may extract some commitments from the Conservatives, the economic reality leaves no one any space. In fact there seems to be a growing view in the Labour ranks that maybe it's better not to be in government right now, to let the Conservatives, and to a certain degree, the LibDems, take the heat for the major cuts, and once the situation has stabilized in two or three years, the Conservatives will probably be unpopular enough for Labour to take back power.

[ToadBrother]

Of course, with all that said, it now gets more complicated in the UK:

Gordon Brown 'stepping down as Labour Leader'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/election_2010/8672859.stm

What this means is that one of the key negotiating points between the LibDems and Labour, that Brown leave, has been met. This is going to up the ante for the Conservatives, who were said to have been very reluctant about electoral reform and were thinking of trying to go it alone without even an informal coalition. Brown says he's stepping down by September, when Labour will pick a new leader, which satisfies the LibDem demand that Brown set a firm time line for his departure.

Clegg is proving himself an incredibly adept political player. He now can go to the bargaining table with the Conservatives and say "Look, there has to be a move to electoral reform. If you can't commit to some sort of process, we'll back Labour." I think it's pretty much guaranteed that some sort of electoral reform, or at the very least a referendum on it (which apparently some Conservatives would accept, providing they could campaign against it) is going to happen in the UK in the next few years.

[wyly]

Clegg is proving himself an incredibly adept political player. He now can go to the bargaining table with the Conservatives and say "Look, there has to be a move to electoral reform. If you can't commit to some sort of process, we'll back Labour." I think it's pretty much guaranteed that some sort of electoral reform, or at the very least a referendum on it (which apparently some Conservatives would accept, providing they could campaign against it) is going to happen in the UK in the next few years.

if voting reform gets on the agenda in the UK it can't help but do the same here...the only parties supporting the way it is now are those that benefit from it, neither the liberals or conservatives want to give adequate representation to those who do not support them...they'll fight it claiming we need efficient government and giving a voice to 30% of the population that supports neither of the old parties isn't in Canada's best interest as it prevents majority governments...their real fear is if the 3rd, 4th or 5th parties get fair representation that equals their popular support Canadians will begin looking at them as a viable alternatives...

a fair representitive vote in the last election would have the CPC losing about 20 seats, the NDP gaining about 20, BQ losing about 20, Greens would have representation with around 15..only the liberals would have a seat count that reflected their vote count...

[madmax]

I shake my head at the leftist media

I shake my head everytime I hear some Hack say there is a leftist media when the media Corporate and Centre Right.

Comments like the one above are made by goofballs at Fox ComedyEntertainmentNews Channel.

The Liberal Party is for all purposes a Corporate party with its Corporate media sponsors of the Toronto Star and CBC. While the CBC is government run, the other media is government protected. Its just a case of Corporate fiefdoms and their loyalties. It certainly has nothing to do with "leftist".

Of course Fox News and the National post and Sun Media can cheerlead for the Conservatives in such a manner that would put Pravda to shame.

I doubt a "leftwing" media like "Socialist Action" have a subscription of more then 4 or 5 thousand in North America.

There is certainly no leftwing Television Media or Radio Media.

Its time for a "left wing media".

Maybe you should hang out on rabble and babble.

[fellowtraveller]

And the virtually certain result will be continued minority governments.

Of course. The NDP know they will never form a govt, so coalitions are their only chance at appearing relevant, however briefly, to Canadians. It is why Layton was so excited about linking up with Dion and Duceppe. It was his personal shot at glory. He failed.

[M.Dancer]

I shake my head everytime I hear some Hack say there is a leftist media when the media Corporate and Centre Right.

It was a truism at the G&M that the management were conservatives, the editors were liberals, the journalists were NDPers and the columnists were commies.

I know personally and have known more than a few senior editors of Canadian national news magazines and the business press, not one has ever voted right of the NDP. The one exception is Terry Corcoran.

[waldo]

I shake my head everytime I hear some Hack say there is a leftist media when the media Corporate and Centre Right.

Of course Fox News and the National post and Sun Media can cheerlead for the Conservatives in such a manner that would put Pravda to shame.

the right-wing media is dead! Long live the right-wing media...

[M.Dancer]

the right-wing media is dead! Long live the right-wing media...

That would be Paul Godfrey, the man the Provincial Liberals appointed to head up the OLG...

Never the less, ownership always takes an arms length approach to running media...content is in the hands of the editors.

[waldo]

Never the less, ownership always takes an arms length approach to running media...content is in the hands of the editors.

always? That's certainly a bold pronouncement. Are you suggesting Godfrey's presence heading SUN Media (Toronto Sun)... or as CEO at the National Post... had no impact on those papers Conservative aligned positions? So... we should expect no change to the Canwest Conservative slant under Godfrey's lead? That... the right-wing positions held by the SUN, the NP and newspapers throughout the Canwest chain, simply reflect the, as you say, "hands of the editors"? Given your stated first-hand account of the NDP voting practices of senior editors, I'm very impressed and uplifted to recognize that none of the SUN, NP or Canwest newspaper editors let their NDP political leanings over-ride their papers Conservative backing. Very impressive - indeed!

[Argus]

always? That's certainly a bold pronouncement. Are you suggesting Godfrey's presence heading SUN Media (Toronto Sun)... or as CEO at the National Post... had no impact on those papers Conservative aligned positions? So... we should expect no change to the Canwest Conservative slant under Godfrey's lead? That... the right-wing positions held by the SUN, the NP and newspapers throughout the Canwest chain, simply reflect the, as you say, "hands of the editors"?

What right wing positions do you refer to? What do you even consider to be right wing?

[myata]

We here can't have it (coalitions; as well as referendums on federal electoral system) for several reasons (probably not limited to):

- We have not yet come to view ourselves as fully politically independent and sovereign nation capable of creating our own political system. Any changes to the system are therefore considered as an affront to our glorious past, unnecessary trouble and risk.

- Large part of population is disinterested and apathetic to politics, will not understand, nor see the need for such developments (and therefore can be easily manipulated into rejecting them)

- There's still significant amount of inertia support for the leading political duo parties none of which is serious interested in a meaningful democratic reform.

We'll have to wait awhile till support for the behemotial duo fragments and trickle away to such extent that it would force them to support a change.

[M.Dancer]

always? That's certainly a bold pronouncement. Are you suggesting Godfrey's presence heading SUN Media (Toronto Sun)... or as CEO at the National Post... had no impact on those papers Conservative aligned positions?

Yes.

So... we should expect no change to the Canwest Conservative slant under Godfrey's lead? That... the right-wing positions held by the SUN,

The SUN is the Sun..it is a tab and by nature, populist..it won't change, its medium in this case indeed determines the message. NP is centrist....

the NP and newspapers throughout the Canwest chain,

Many of the Canwest (former southam papers) are quite left of the Conservatives, notably the Montreal Gazette.

simply reflect the, as you say, "hands of the editors"? Given your stated first-hand account of the NDP voting practices of senior editors, I'm very impressed and uplifted to recognize that none of the SUN, NP or Canwest newspaper editors let their NDP political leanings over-ride their papers Conservative backing. Very impressive - indeed!

I did not say all, I can only speak of the handful I know or have known, which include editors of Macleans, Canadian Business, FP Magazine, Globe and Mail, Moneysense, Small Business, CA Magazine Financial Times of Canada (defunct)...Financial Post

You might want to, for instance, check the Bio of John Stackhouse, editor of the Globe and Mail.

[g_bambino]

A false claim

We here can't have it (coalitions; as well as referendums on federal electoral system)

supported by a false claim

We have not yet come to view ourselves as fully politically independent and sovereign nation capable of creating our own political system. Any changes to the system are therefore considered as an affront to our glorious past...

and a theory of conspiracy on the part of politicians and constitutional scholars to dupe lame and disinterested Canadians into rejecting myata's brilliant plan to... er... well, I guess that's not supposed to be important...

Large part of population is disinterested and apathetic to politics, will not understand, nor see the need for such developments (and therefore can be easily manipulated into rejecting them)

Of course, it never dawns on him that perhaps it's perfectly rational to reject historically, constitutionally, and theoretically naive observations such as his, given that changes based on such weak thinking tend to lead to

unnecessary trouble and risk.