Coalition Government

[Dave_ON]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/05/07/uk-election-minority.html

As you might already be aware the UK election is over and it looks like it's a hung parliament (minority as we call it). This is the first minority they've had in Britain since the 70's. Now it looks very much like some type of coalition government will be formed in the very near future. Surprisingly there'll be no "emergency" nationwide PM address, or propaganda about how undemocratic this is and that all that is good and holy is threatened by such a despicable and unholy alliance. No the British are far more pragmatic about such matters than we are apparently, and likely the general populace is more aware of the workings of their system.

My question is, since it appears as though we will be in a minority government for some time to come why not settle on a coalition. Now I expect a full litany of rhetoric such as "run as a coalition if you want to form one." That's not the way the party system works. If you have to form an alliance to gain a majority, and some semblance of stability, then do so. The CPC could very easily form a majority coalition government much like their predecessors did during WW1. I suppose the CPC is still hoping against hope that they will eventually be delivered a majority, but polls indicate that won't happen any time in the very near future.

[Argus]

As you might already be aware the UK election is over and it looks like it's a hung parliament (minority as we call it). This is the first minority they've had in Britain since the 70's. Now it looks very much like some type of coalition government will be formed in the very near future.

The more parties you have to satisfy, the more narrow, parochial interests the government will have to champion. Coallition governments make bad governments, generally, and unstable governments.

More to the point, the Brits knew this could be a strong possibility during the election. Canada's Conservatives formed a government, and a few months later, the three stooges got together to try and take over on a pretext because the goernment threatened their milk teat. Moreover, you had the unapalatable prospect of a ridiculed leader (Dion) being the head banana with a highly distrusted socialist clinging to his shoulder like a demented monkey, and a seperatist without the slightest interest in the well-being of Canada as a whole on his other shoulder. Only really dumb people liked that prospect.

By the way, your title threat is a bit of a minsnomer. We don't know the British CAN make it work as they haven't even tried yet.

[fellowtraveller]

Canada's Conservatives formed a government, and a few months later, the three stooges got together to try and take over on a pretext because the goernment threatened their milk teat. Moreover, you had the unapalatable prospect of a ridiculed leader (Dion) being the head banana with a highly distrusted socialist clinging to his shoulder like a demented monkey, and a seperatist without the slightest interest in the well-being of Canada as a whole on his other shoulder. Only really dumb people liked that prospect.

Thank you for the succinct and accurate summary of the events.

The price the Lib-Dems are asking to form a coalition(aside from Cabinet seats)is to change the electoral process to introduce propotional representation, which would be of immense value to the Lib Dems in the future. No response from the Tories yet. Labour has already indicated they would likely support it if the Lib Dems joined a coalition with them.

I also expect that was Laytons prime prerequisite for getting into bed with Dion and Duceppe, it would be the number one demand.

[PIK]

I shake my head at the leftist media people saying how we can learn from england and europe, look at those countries and how bad they are. They can learn from us, who cares if tempers flare up and people tend to yell at each other, we have it the best and lets not forget our ancestors came here to get away from europe.

[bloodyminded]

I shake my head at the leftist media people saying how we can learn from england and europe, look at those countries and how bad they are. They can learn from us, who cares if tempers flare up and people tend to yell at each other, we have it the best and lets not forget our ancestors came here to get away from europe.

The media is not leftist.

[PIK]

The media is not leftist.

Most of it is. But I was refering to the lefty commentators

[Jack Weber]

Most of it is. But I was refering to the lefty commentators

No it's not...But following the debt ridden plicies of some of the European countries would be a really dunb idea.What we should do is follow the fiscally responsible policies of the United States,which since 1968,has has Republican presidents for 28 of those 42 years.So obviously,conservative(and neo liberal) fiscal policies are so prudent,steady,and,never lead to debt problems...

[PIK]

No it's not...But following the debt ridden plicies of some of the European countries would be a really dunb idea.What we should do is follow the fiscally responsible policies of the United States,which since 1968,has has Republican presidents for 28 of those 42 years.So obviously,conservative(and neo liberal) fiscal policies are so prudent,steady,and,never lead to debt problems...

We don't need to follow anyone, we are doing fine by ourselves ,why do you believe we need ''to follow'' someone else?

[waldo]

The media is not leftist.

Most of it is. But I was refering to the lefty commentators

names damnit! We want names... just who makes up this 'mostly' leftist media... particularly those "lefty commentators" that have your eye - names damnit!

[waldo]

Thank you for the succinct and accurate summary of the events.

revisionist, ya think! I seem to recall the rallied troops that headed across the country speaking of the "power grab" by the unholy coalition... unconstitutional phrasing was batted about quite liberally... we heard all about how separatists would be running the country... blah, blah, blah.

so this will never do - Harper Conservatives are twisting and churning over the thought that more Canadians might actually begin to recognize coalition government as a legitimate option.

[Born Free]

More to the point, the Brits knew this could be a strong possibility during the election. Canada's Conservatives formed a government, and a few months later, the three stooges got together to try and take over on a pretext because the goernment threatened their milk teat. Moreover, you had the unapalatable prospect of a ridiculed leader (Dion) being the head banana with a highly distrusted socialist clinging to his shoulder like a demented monkey, and a seperatist without the slightest interest in the well-being of Canada as a whole on his other shoulder. Only really dumb people liked that prospect.

How quickly they forget. Harper tried to form a coalition with the NDP and the Bloc just a few years ago.

[PIK]

We don't need to follow anyone, we are doing fine by ourselves ,why do you believe we need ''to follow'' someone else?

Tornto star 100% left, G and M'80/20 left, mike harris (cfra) CBC 110% LEFT and this is just a start, when canwell is sold and the group that owns the star I think will be buying it, National post 70/30 right but that will change very shortly if the star group buys it.I forgot the sun 90% advertising. LOL Edited May 7, 2010 by PIK

[Jack Weber]

We don't need to follow anyone, we are doing fine by ourselves ,why do you believe we need ''to follow'' someone else?

We don't...I was being,not terribly cryptically,sarcastic...

[PIK]

We don't...I was being,not terribly cryptically,sarcastic...

My fault ,I missed that. lol

[fellowtraveller]

revisionist, ya think! I seem to recall the rallied troops that headed across the country speaking of the "power grab" by the unholy coalition... unconstitutional phrasing was batted about quite liberally... we heard all about how separatists would be running the country... blah, blah, blah.

so this will never do - Harper Conservatives are twisting and churning over the thought that more Canadians might actually begin to recognize coalition government as a legitimate option.

It was laytons one and only hope for getting the NDP across the floor.

He must feel wistful for what might have been if he wasn't such a preening, egotistical, self deluding fool.

Ignatieff knew the score: if the coalition had taken over governance 3 months after the Tories came very close to a majority, and were turfed out to satisfy the egos of the Three Stooges- the Liberals would have been tarred and feathered and finished in this country.

Layton didn't care about any of that, nor did Dyuuceppe and for the same reasons. They are fringe parties with little support and had nothing to lose.

[wyly]

revisionist, ya think! I seem to recall the rallied troops that headed across the country speaking of the "power grab" by the unholy coalition... unconstitutional phrasing was batted about quite liberally... we heard all about how separatists would be running the country... blah, blah, blah.

so this will never do - Harper Conservatives are twisting and churning over the thought that more Canadians might actually begin to recognize coalition government as a legitimate option.

Harper and the conservatives will hype a coalition as undemocratic when it's the very essence of democracy...what I find undemocratic is a situation where a minority on the right fringe can hijack public will do to a flawed election process...65% of Canadians a very strong majority identify themselves as left of center...what sensible democratic process does the will of a minority overrule the will of the majority...if a minority government does not have the confidence of Parliament to govern then the opposition has the right to given an opportunity to form a government a coalition if need be...if a coalition isn't workable then go back to the election process...and even after an election should a coalition be formed yes they have the right to govern if they have the most seats...

[Topaz]

As it has been said, this is a different world after 9/11 and I don't think voters in any country should trust any party 100% and so more Commonwealth countries should have minority government. I think we should keep the government of Canada as a minority for a while and I like to see the three parties in the PMO to get a better understanding of how they would govern with a majority. I have voted PC in the past but I would never ever vote for this party, at least, under Harper.

[wyly]

Layton didn't care about any of that, nor did Dyuuceppe and for the same reasons. They are fringe parties with little support and had nothing to lose.

only the election process makes them fringe parties...one in five Canadians vote NDP that's a significant number...one in 3 vote conservative that isn't a signifcant enough difference to classify the NDP as fringe...under the current system the Conservatives are rewarded with too many seats and the parties such as the NDP are badly under represented and the Greens not at all...in the case of the BQ the CPC should be thankful they are there,they're drawing votes from the liberals, NDP and Greens otherwise the conservatives would be back in the wilderness...

[wyly]

As it has been said, this is a different world after 9/11 and I don't think voters in any country should trust any party 100% and so more Commonwealth countries should have minority government. I think we should keep the government of Canada as a minority for a while and I like to see the three parties in the PMO to get a better understanding of how they would govern with a majority. I have voted PC in the past but I would never ever vote for this party, at least, under Harper.

many countries have operated with coalition governments for decades, it's absolutely a democratic and workable system...I have no issue with us remaining in a minority state indefinitely...

[Dave_ON]

By the way, your title threat is a bit of a minsnomer. We don't know the British CAN make it work as they haven't even tried yet.

A misnomer like calling the coalition a "coup"? Either way we do in fact know that coalitions CAN work as has been shown in our own political history. The Conservatives and LPC during WW1 managed to do it, they came together during a time of crisis to show solidarity. Our recent economic crisis was a perfect opportunity for Mr. Harper to prove his quality, instead he chose to wax partisan and down right mean spirited. The state of politics in this country is truly disappointing. How quickly we forget that the government isn't elected, they're appointed by parliament and continue to govern at theit behest alone. Who sits in government is entirely up to parliament, it would behove the government to extend a hand to the opposition and bring them into the fold as it were, rather than engendering acrimony as it appears they are want to do at present. When I speak of a coalition, I don't mean between the 3 opposition parties. I'm specifically referring to the CPC and LPC, except on certain social issues, their policies are quite similar. I suppose though it's too late for that now, the CPC made too big a deal about coalitions and to this very day many CPC supporters actually believe the rhetorical tripe he was spouting over a year ago.

[Topaz]

Here's another thought, in the US they have only two parties, so they know that whoever is in will probably be out in the next election. Here is Canada we have three parties but we have the same problem as the US. The Tories are in now but one election will come and take them out and the Liberals will replace and it goes back and forth. I would like a rude awaking to the two parties and see the NDP hold a minority government just to tell the other two NOT to take things for granted. I would also like one of the parties to press the Bloc to swear their allegiance to Canada and the Queen or leave.

[Argus]

Thank you for the succinct and accurate summary of the events.

The price the Lib-Dems are asking to form a coalition(aside from Cabinet seats)is to change the electoral process to introduce propotional representation, which would be of immense value to the Lib Dems in the future. No response from the Tories yet. Labour has already indicated they would likely support it if the Lib Dems joined a coalition with them.

I also expect that was Laytons prime prerequisite for getting into bed with Dion and Duceppe, it would be the number one demand.

And the virtually certain result will be continued minority governments.

[Argus]

No it's not...But following the debt ridden plicies of some of the European countries would be a really dunb idea.What we should do is follow the fiscally responsible policies of the United States,which since 1968,has has Republican presidents for 28 of those 42 years.So obviously,conservative(and neo liberal) fiscal policies are so prudent,steady,and,never lead to debt problems...

The United States is actually a good example of why minority governments are bad governments. The US rarely has one party in full control. Even if the Republicans own the White House chances are the Democrats own the Congress. But the real problem in the US is they're almost always in an election mode. That, in essence, is also the problem of minority governments. When you're always in election mode you have trouble making the hard decisions, and you're much more eager to spend money to buy votes.

[Argus]

Harper and the conservatives will hype a coalition as undemocratic when it's the very essence of democracy...

In one sense. The problem with coallitions is no one is in firm control. It's a constant political dance, with constant compromise. And the easiest thing for politicians to compromise on is spending money. Getting them to agree on cutting spending and programs is nearly impossible. In order to rule effectively there needs to be leadership, and coallitions rarely have any.

[Machjo]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/05/07/uk-election-minority.html

As you might already be aware the UK election is over and it looks like it's a hung parliament (minority as we call it). This is the first minority they've had in Britain since the 70's. Now it looks very much like some type of coalition government will be formed in the very near future. Surprisingly there'll be no "emergency" nationwide PM address, or propaganda about how undemocratic this is and that all that is good and holy is threatened by such a despicable and unholy alliance. No the British are far more pragmatic about such matters than we are apparently, and likely the general populace is more aware of the workings of their system.

My question is, since it appears as though we will be in a minority government for some time to come why not settle on a coalition. Now I expect a full litany of rhetoric such as "run as a coalition if you want to form one." That's not the way the party system works. If you have to form an alliance to gain a majority, and some semblance of stability, then do so. The CPC could very easily form a majority coalition government much like their predecessors did during WW1. I suppose the CPC is still hoping against hope that they will eventually be delivered a majority, but polls indicate that won't happen any time in the very near future.

We must realize Canadian politics are much more partisan and polarized than UK politics. Each party feels it must save face by not showing itself to be weak, to stand on 'principle' at all costs, etc. Canadian politics are totally polarized.

Some solutions I could see would be:

1. remove party names from ballots. That's probably the most important of all symbolically so as to emphasize that we are voting in not parties, but MPs. As such, these MPs are free to associate with any or not party, and so are free to build coalitions. As long as party names appear on ballots, parties will always argue that we'd voted not for MPs but for parties, and as such party loyalty must remain, along with the problems this creates. So definitely the most important step symbolically is to remove party names from ballots.

2. De-officialize political parties. They ought to get no legal recognition whatsoever beyond that of any other incorporated not-for-profit organization. That too would help make Parliament non-Partisan. It's already reached the point a few years ago where when I see a party name under the candidate's name on my ballot, I cringe.