Mosque going up in NYC building

[Shady]

Which says to me, there is no more room for debate.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It means things have been discussed, people have thought about it, and come to a conclusion. I don't really see the problem.

[DogOnPorch]

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It means things have been discussed, people have thought about it, and come to a conclusion. I don't really see the problem.

Either way, it isn't dre's job to decide what's fair to post in and what isn't. Thank goodness.

[GostHacked]

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It means things have been discussed, people have thought about it, and come to a conclusion. I don't really see the problem.

The horse is dead.

[Shady]

The horse is dead.

Good.

[msj]

When Shady starts to sound reasonable you know the thread is dead.

[Guest American Woman]

Trying to shut down conversation...again.

Which is pretty funny, considering there's been no "conversation" to speak of from him and his ilk.

As I said, I had hoped for an actual discussion when I started this thread. There are enough concerns involved with the whole project to carry on an interesting discussion if people could actually respond to what was said and not simply reply with 'you don't think that' and 'you're a bigot.' It seems those who support the mosque going up on that property can only distort what people say and respond to that. I haven't even seen anyone argue their point, really, except to say that they have the right to build there and that all Muslims aren't responsible, which isn't even an issue, for most people.

I question the stated purpose in light of the fact that it's doing the exact opposite of what the imam stated as the purpose. Seems to me if he were serious, and really wanted to bridge the gap, he wouldn't be going ahead with a project that's doing just the opposite.

A mosque that's supposed to represent moderates is being supported by Hamas, which leads me to question if Hamas even thinks the purpose is to promote moderate Islam and bridge gaps. Seems to me that's the last thing Hamas wants, so why does it have their support?

And what about the financing? If it is financed by Saudis, will it be "moderate" or along the lines of the other Saudi funded mosques?

Furthermore, it's a 100 million dollar project, and the property taxes are in arrears. Why is that? It means they are in violation of the lease contract. I wonder if that will become an issue.

And last but not least, it's actually put Americans, both Muslim and not Muslim, in a worse position if there are more ill feelings towards Muslims now and there has been an increase in terrorist support/sympathy/donations. So how, in light of this fact, can someone who claims to be trying to build bridges not consider building elsewhere?

I think it's interesting, too, that Obama has said no more than they have the right to build there. He has refused to comment on the wisdom of building there, so basically, he's not giving an opinion. He's not really supporting the mosque/project by simply saying they have the right to build there, because most of the people who oppose the property don't question the right to build there.

As I've pointed out, many moderate Americans, both Muslim and non-Muslim, seem to be against the mosque going on that property, and they seem to be the ones most affected, yet with the least voice. Politicians and the heads of the project aren't in touch with reality/the average person, as far as I can see, and I wonder if they are just thinking of their agendas for the most part.

So it seems to me there are a lot of issues that could be under discussion, but instead, for the most part, we have been subjected to accusations, insults, and total fabrications regarding our views; and seriously, I can't even respect the convictions of most of those who support the mosque because they can't even seem to have their beliefs without believing anyone who doesn't think like they do is a bigot who really doesn't believe the things they do. There seems to be almost no ability at all to have an honest exchange of views/discussion of the issues.

As I said, this thread has been a real learning experience for me. I can see that so many of those who consider themselves to be so tolerant are actually very intolerant, and totally incapable of seeing or comprehending anything outside their narrow mindset.

[DogOnPorch]

No arguement here. I think it's a bad idea and the motives for its construction suspect. But as Bloomberg says, freedom of religion is what America is about. No matter his Middle-East banking interests which may or may not colour his opinion re: the project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cxX-Z1Sec

[waldo]

A mosque that's supposed to represent moderates is being supported by Hamas

Frankly, I had become most skeptical of your position/statements... your whole bigotry angle was most disconcerting; however, you've done a great service here - good on ya AW! What could be more representative of the mosque bridge building than having both Hamas and Jewish support for the mosque highlighted, particularly during this period of Obama/Clinton brokered peace talks between Abbas/Netanyahu. Keep it up AW...

[Shady]

What could be more representative of the mosque bridge building than having both Hamas and Jewish support for the mosque highlighted

It doesn't suprise me that one useful idiot points out the support by another useful idiot, or idiots in this case.

[msj]

When Shady starts to sound reasonable you know the thread is dead.

Whoops, spoke too soon...enter AW (again).

[Guest American Woman]

No arguement here. I think it's a bad idea and the motives for its construction suspect. But as Bloomberg says, freedom of religion is what America is about. No matter his Middle-East banking interests which may or may not colour his opinion re: the project.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. It does make one wonder if his banking interests might be playing into his opinion. I do find it interesting that his (strong) opinion is so at odds with the majority of the people of his city; seems as if a mayor would be paying a bit more attention to what the people of his city are saying/wanting.

[Guest American Woman]

Soounds as if imam Rauf's plan to build on that property without consideration of moving the project to another location aren't as 'written in stone' as it used to be:

When asked whether he would revise the plans or location of the center, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said that his strategy for dealing with the controversy "is still baking in the kitchen."

Developer of 'Ground Zero Mosque' Cuts Short Mideast Tour to Deal With Controversy

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. It does make one wonder if his banking interests might be playing into his opinion. I do find it interesting that his (strong) opinion is so at odds with the majority of the people of his city; seems as if a mayor would be paying a bit more attention to what the people of his city are saying/wanting.

I think you've already heard of Pat Condell...British fellow. Ex-comedian. His website has a list of the death threats he's received re: his video rants. Another Klown Without Pity...much better than myself, I must say.

[DogOnPorch]

see my next post for the definitive solution to the problem....

Yeah...wasting your time here Nokia guy.

[waldo]

Soounds as if imam Rauf's plan to build on that property without consideration of moving the project to another location aren't as 'written in stone' as it used to be:

When asked whether he would revise the plans or location of the center, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said that his strategy for dealing with the controversy "is still baking in the kitchen."

perhaps you could help advise just how far back another location needs to be... apparently, the proposed '2 blocks away and around a corner' doesn't do it for you. Does 3 blocks away work? 4? How far back is enough for you?

[Shady]

perhaps you could help advise just how far back another location needs to be... apparently, the proposed '2 blocks away and around a corner' doesn't do it for you. Does 3 blocks away work? 4? How far back is enough for you?

Waldo, you're late to this discussion. And the questions you've asked have already been answered dozens of times. Perhaps you should just take a pass on this thread.

[Guest American Woman]

I think you've already heard of Pat Condell...British fellow. Ex-comedian. His website has a list of the death threats he's received re: his video rants. Another Klown Without Pity...much better than myself, I must say.

Yes, I have heard some of what he has to say, and I think he's made a lot of good points -- and said what he's had to say well. I'm not surprised that he's received death threats, but I'm guessing it's his fault because he "provoked" people by stating his opinions. Just like America should just shut up and let Muslims build this mosque in spite of our feelings.

[Smallc]

Just like America should just shut up and let Muslims build this mosque in spite of our feelings.

Yes, well, and to a bigot, the above is a reasonable statement.

[Shady]

Yes, well, and to a bigot, the above is a reasonable statement.

No, you're a bigot.

[naomiglover]

Just like America should just shut up and let Muslims build this mosque in spite of our feelings.

Newsflash to all bigots: America includes people who are Muslim. You're dripping with bigotry.

[dre]

The agony...

[Shady]

Newsflash to all bigots: America includes people who are Muslim. You're dripping with bigotry.

No, you're dripping with bigotry.

[Guest American Woman]

Newsflash to all bigots: America includes people who are Muslim. You're dripping with bigotry.

Newsflash to all ignoramuses: the opposition in America to the mosque going up on this particular property includes some of those "people who are Muslim." Guess they're dripping with bigotry too. Against themselves.

There aren't enough 's for this level of ignorance.

Edited September 2, 2010 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

DEAD HORSE said:

The agony...

Very well done. Got a good laugh out of that one.

[Guest American Woman]

DEAD HORSE said:

The agony...

Very well done. Got a good laugh out of that one.

Not as big a laugh as I'm getting out of all of you who keep saying what a dead horse this thread is .... yet can't seem to control your impulse to keep reading it and posting in it. Over and over again.

There aren't enough 's for that.