Mosque going up in NYC building

[Guest American Woman]

What you're saying amounts to this;

I don't blame all Muslims for 9-11, but some people do, and Muslims should restrict their lawful activities willingly so those bigots don't get further offended.

Nope. That's not what I'm saying at all. Never said any such thing. Not even close. It's your limitations in reading comprehension that's saying that.

Here's what I'm saying:

Here's what I believe:

All Muslims are not responsible for 9-11.

All Muslims are not terrorists.

Muslims have the right to build on the property in question and I will defend that right; however, I question whether it's the right thing to do.

Considering the fact that Muslims damaged the property the mosque is being built on on 9-11, and but for those actions this property would not be available for the mosque, I feel it's insensitive to build on this property.

I therefore believe those in charge of the project should build elsewhere out of empathy to those who lost loved ones on 9-11 and out of understanding for the way the majority of Americans feel about it, and that includes Muslims who share the same views.

I believe empathy and understanding are a two way street.

I hold myself and all nations/religions/people to the same standards.

I agreed wholeheartedly with Bush when he said we should not blame all Muslims for 9-11; that we are not at war with Islam.

I think it's now time for Muslims to understand where non-Muslims are coming from regarding this issue.

Refute what I said and think, or I will keep reposting what I said and think in response to your ignorance/inability-to-comprehend-what-I-said/dishonesty. Keep misrepresenting what I actually believe, keep putting your ignorant views on me, and you will keep seeing what I really think/believe repeated over and over again.

[CANADIEN]

It may say a lot to you, and that's your prerogative to believe it, but that doesn't make it true. I noticed that you've had no comment on the quotes from Muslims I've posted, so I can only assume, by your standards/logic, that it means what they've had to say doesn't hold much importance to you. Right? Or do you hold different standards for yourself?

It is of course clear that the opinion of these Muslims has not been asimportant as the opinions of victims... nor has the opinion of most politicians, fpor that matter. Mind you, given another 15 hours of reading these, who knows what I would have had to say about these points of view.

Instead of repeating your false accusation, prove it. If you make an accusation and don't back it up, it says a lot about your (lack of) integrity. So prove it or retract it.

What I find interesting is that your message quote a typo I made (and it was actually what it was, regardless of what you may thin) AFTER I noticed and corredted it. Sorry for the typo, btw.

I didn't say what's right or wrong is a matter of majority or minority opinion.

And once again I did not state you made such a claim. This habit of protesting that you did not say what i did not claim you said was laugable at first. Now, it becomes merely boring.

What I said is that sometimes when an issued is loaded emotion, people should choose to act on the majority. It makes sense, when there are a lot of legitimate emotions involved, so respect that most people feel a certain way; especially when the goal is to "build bridges." One cannot expect to build bridges without respecting the feelings of the majority.

And i disagree. what is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.

Now this is funny. I simply turned your words back at you, and suddenly it's a "gross misrepresentation of your opinion." Since you seemed to feel it represented/applied to my opinion so well, I could only assume it represented yours as well. But now I see that you do have different standards for you and for me.

Excuse me while I laugh The only way one can assume that I disregard the opinion of the opponents is thorugh a twisted (and rather hilrious) twist of logic under which one either agree with the opinions expressed by opponents or dismiss them.

There is no doubt that the opinion of some of the opponents is reasonable and fair, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. There also can be no doubt that the opinions expressed by some of the opponents are rooted in ignorance, bigotry and exploting fear for political goals. My empathy does not extend to accepting those opinions without a word.

They've done nothing concrete to address those feelings. Nothing at all. "Explaining intentions" is meaningless. If someone is doing something that hurts you and then "explains" that 'I don't mean to hurt you' and then does nothing different, how is that "doing a lot" to address your feelings? It's "doing" absolutely nothing.

That's your opinion. Facts speak otherwise.

And again, I've never done any such thing.

I say some people do some bad thing, so i am necessariy imply that you do each and everyone of them too. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz<

Again, not all people opposing this project on that property are intolerant, bigots, or misrepresenting anything.

That's nothing more than your opinion, and with that opinion, you are totally dismissing the feelings of many people who have lost loved ones there. You are totally dismissing anyone and everyone's views that don't coincide with yours, and ironically, it's very intolerant on your part to do that. Tolerance is a two way street. By dismissing everyone who has concerns/feelings/emotions about this project as "intolerant" is painting everyone in opposition with the same brush.

And while evidently it's wrong to paint Muslims all with the same brush, it's a-ok for you to paint anyone who doesn't see things the way you do with the same brush, and accuse them of being intolerant. And apparently the irony of that escapes you. Unbelievable.

Let me know when you know what you're talking about.

Edited August 31, 2010 by CANADIEN

[BubberMiley]

You honestly don't see how the following two quotes are contradictory?

Considering the fact that Muslims damaged the property the mosque is being built on on 9-11, and but for those actions this property would not be available for the mosque, I feel it's insensitive to build on this property.

I agreed wholeheartedly with Bush when he said we should not blame all Muslims for 9-11....

[Guest American Woman]

You honestly don't see how the following two quotes are contradictory?

How is stating the truth contradictory??

Muslims did fly planes into the WTC on 9-11, causing the damage to that building. That's a fact. Does that mean ALL Muslims are responsible?? NO. It does not. That's also a fact.

Therefore the two statements are both correct.

[CANADIEN]

To quote a NYC Muslim: "[The mosque] has caused so much pain. There are many mosques already in New York, nobody has ever opposed a mosque, if there is opposition to a mosque on grounds of hatred I would be the first to confront it. But over here it is a matter of sensitivity and there is no residential community even near the community center."

The Cordoba Project has not caused nearly as much pain as the venom spewed by some of its opponents. BTW, the fact that there is no residential community in the area is irrelevant. Places of worship belong everywhere human being congragate, including business areas.

"This is not a humble Islamic statement. A mosque such as this is actually a political structure that casts a shadow over a cemetery, over hallowed ground. 9/11 was the beginning of a kinetic war, it is not an opportunity for cultural exchange. It was the beginning of a conflict with those who want to destroy our way of life."

"...they want to use this Islamic center as a place for diplomacy to the Middle East to demonstrate that the United States is a place where Muslims thrive. But that has backfired because this could have been done in many other ways."

I dasagree. This time makes dialogue even more necessary than ever. As for the Cordoba Project being a polotical statement - of course it is. It is a statement that there are Muslims who will not let Al-Quaeda speak for them.

Edited August 31, 2010 by CANADIEN

[kimmy]

Except when it comes to burning someones sacred holy books in a direct attempt to provoke them, and cause hurt.

Then suddenly empathy goes out the window.

This has been explained for you at least twice already, and you still don't get it. I'm starting to wonder if you've got some sort of mental impairment.

The Imam Rauf group have the right to build their Islam center.

And the Florida group have the right to burn Qurans.

So why aren't people wondering why the Florida yokels aren't showing empathy to Muslims? Because the Florida yokels don't give a crap about Muslims. They're trying to piss Muslims off.

So why are people calling for Imam Rauf to show empathy? Because he himself keeps talking about how much empathy he has. He's literally full of it-- full of empathy! He has so much empathy, he can hardly contain himself. He's building bridges! He's uniting New Yorkers of all creeds and colors! He's healing the city! That's why he's being held to a different standard than Quran-burning yokels: because he's proclaimed this noble ambition.

If you're arguing that Imam Rauf should be held to the same standards as the Quran-burning goons, then you're arguing that his aims are no better than theirs. Do you think that's the case?

-k

[BubberMiley]

How is stating the truth contradictory??

How is it insensitive to build the mosque if those individuals, as you have said countless times, were not responsible for 9/11? If they had nothing to do with it, they had nothing to do with it. Case closed.

That's how it's contradictory.

And it only took you two weeks to figure it out.

Edited August 31, 2010 by BubberMiley

[CANADIEN]

This has been explained for you at least twice already, and you still don't get it. I'm starting to wonder if you've got some sort of mental impairment.

The Imam Rauf group have the right to build their Islam center.

And the Florida group have the right to burn Qurans.

So why aren't people wondering why the Florida yokels aren't showing empathy to Muslims? Because the Florida yokels don't give a crap about Muslims. They're trying to piss Muslims off.

So why are people calling for Imam Rauf to show empathy? Because he himself keeps talking about how much empathy he has. He's literally full of it-- full of empathy! He has so much empathy, he can hardly contain himself. He's building bridges! He's uniting New Yorkers of all creeds and colors! He's healing the city! That's why he's being held to a different standard than Quran-burning yokels: because he's proclaimed this noble ambition.

If you're arguing that Imam Rauf should be held to the same standards as the Quran-burning goons, then you're arguing that his aims are no better than theirs. Do you think that's the case?

-k

If anybody does not get it, it's you.

It is not about what standard Florida yokel and a NYC Iman should be held too. It is about the willingless by some to downplay the yokels' actions and utter platitudes like "they have the right to do it" instead of saying clearly what is self evident: WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG AND HEINOUS. Never mind that they will not get it.

[CANADIEN]

How is it insensitive to build the mosque if those individuals, as you have said countless times, were not responsible for 9/11? If they had nothing to do with, they had nothing to do with it. Case closed.

That's how it's contradictory.

And it only took you two weeks to figure it out.

It would be insensitive if the proponents had not made any efforts to respond to the feelings the project arouse amongst the relative s of the victims. The fact that some of them approve the project demonstrate that they have made such efforts.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....It is not about what standard Florida yokel and a NYC Iman should be held too. It is about the willingless by some to downplay the yokels' actions and utter platitudes like "they have the right to do it" instead of saying clearly what is self evident: WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG AND HEINOUS. Never mind that they will not get it.

THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT. IT IS NOT WRONG OR HEINOUS.

[Guest American Woman]

How is it insensitive to build the mosque if those individuals, as you have said countless times, were not responsible for 9/11? If they had nothing to do with, they had nothing to do with it. Case closed.

That's how it's contradictory.

And it only took you two weeks to figure it out.

Speaking for me, wrongly, again, eh? Apparently you can't stop yourself, so I'll tell you what -- from now on I'll save myself the trouble of posting and you can carry on both ends of the discussion, speaking for me and responding to yourself, as you have been doing all along.

[DogOnPorch]

THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT. IT IS NOT WRONG OR HEINOUS.

Excuse the Canadians...they'd be hauled in front of the Human Right Commisions for even thinking about burning a holy book.

[Guest American Woman]

If anybody does not get it, it's you.

It is not about what standard Florida yokel and a NYC Iman should be held too. It is about the willingless by some to downplay the yokels' actions and utter platitudes like "they have the right to do it" instead of saying clearly what is self evident: WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG AND HEINOUS. Never mind that they will not get it.

I can only assume that you also think burning the Bible, and the flag, and anything that means anything to anyone, is also WRONG AND HEINOUS.

Get a grip.

[kimmy]

If anybody does not get it, it's you.

It is not about what standard Florida yokel and a NYC Iman should be held too. It is about the willingless by some to downplay the yokels' actions and utter platitudes like "they have the right to do it" instead of saying clearly what is self evident: WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG AND HEINOUS. Never mind that they will not get it.

Why's it wrong? Some sort of fire code violation?

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

Excuse the Canadians...they'd be hauled in front of the Human Right Commisions for even thinking about burning a holy book.

...but it's so cute!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ee83THs48

[DogOnPorch]

...but it's so cute!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ee83THs48

Sounds like drunk Frenchies...

[CANADIEN]

Why's it wrong? Some sort of fire code violation?

-k

You actually need to be told why haineous acts are wrong?

Or maybe you believe they are right. Please feel free to explain how.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sounds like drunk Frenchies...

Oui...oui. Free speech is a good thing.

[Guest American Woman]

...but it's so cute!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ee83THs48

OMG!!! That's just so WRONG and HEINOUS!!!!! I'm sure Canadien and his ilk will feel a compelling need to start a thread about it!

[CANADIEN]

I can only assume that you also think burning the Bible, and the flag, and anything that means anything to anyone, is also WRONG AND HEINOUS.

Get a grip.

If you think that there is nothing wrong with delibarately show hatred by burning religious symbols, YOU need to get a grip.

[bush_cheney2004]

OMG!!! That's just so WRONG and HEINOUS!!!!! I'm sure Canadien and his ilk will feel a compelling need to start a thread about it!

Indeed...how will the world ever survive such a heinous and "hurtful" display?

[DogOnPorch]

Oui...oui. Free speech is a good thing.

Canadian Frenchies, too boot. Not enough cultural sensitivity training...obviously.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadian Frenchies, too boot. Not enough cultural sensitivity training...obviously.

Perfect....nothing like Canadian Frenchies to protect speech and language rights. Burn..baby..burn!

[Bonam]

If you think that there is nothing wrong with delibarately show hatred by burning religious symbols, YOU need to get a grip.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or heinous about burning books that you own (in a fire-safe manner). There is nothing wrong with drawing pictures of Mohammed. There is nothing wrong with protesting the construction of a building you do not approve of.

All you Islamosubmissives need to get a grip. We don't have to walk on egg shells to avoid offending Muslims. Not conforming to your twisted standards of self-censorship and cultural submission is not "wrong".

[Guest American Woman]

We don't have to walk on egg shells to avoid offending Muslims. Not conforming to your twisted standards of self-censorship and cultural submission is not "wrong".

Evidently the protests are the talk of the terrorist world. Shame on us for not walking on eggshells! And of course if anyone dares to commit an act of violence regarding the mosque, they are hateful bigots. But if there are any repercussions from the terrorist organizations because of the protests, it'll be our fault because we antagonized them, or some such nonsense.

Edited August 31, 2010 by American Woman