Mosque going up in NYC building

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, if you were following closely, you'd know NYC is all for the freedom to build the mosque. Just ask Bloomberg. But what does that have to do with Canada?

Beats me....for you "the West" only exists in one place. NYC's position on the mosque was established long before you got a whiff of what was going on, and you are still clueless. Don't worry...hockey starts in a few months.

Edited August 29, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest TrueMetis]

You'll find 'Feelings Toward Bin Laden' on page 24 of the report.

Palestinians have the highest at 56% positive, followed by Egypt at 44%. The lowest of the major countries is Turkey at 10%, followed by Indonesia at 22% positive.

Now I know your high. There is no poll that asked whether people support bin Laden there is one that asks if they support Al-qeada but your numbers are way off.

57 percent of Palestinians support Bin Laden.

Doesn't give numbers for Palestinians.

41 percent of Indonesians support Bin Laden.

9% Support Al-qeada attacks, and an additional 19% oppose the attacks but share their attitude. combined 28%

38 percent of Pakistanis support Bin Laden.

16% Support the attacks, 15% oppose but share their attitude. Combined 31%

20 percent of Jordanians support Bin Laden

No numbers given.

78 percent of Palestinians have "positive" or "mixed" feelings towards Bin Laden.

69 percent of Egyptians have "positive" or "mixed" feelings towards Bin Laden.

53 percent of Moroccans have "positive" or "mixed" feelings towards Bin Laden.

51 percent of Pakistanis have "positive" or "mixed" feelings towards Bin Laden.

These numbers are right but mixed and positive shouldn't be combined.

Palestinians have the highest at 56% positive, followed by Egypt at 44%. The lowest of the major countries is Turkey at 10%, followed by Indonesia at 22% positive.

Indonesia is a 14% not 22%, so they are minority in every country but Palestine

Edited August 29, 2010 by TrueMetis

[BubberMiley]

Beats me....for you "the West" only exists in one place.

Yeah, but what's west of the West?

The East.

[CANADIEN]

Why is it that everytime I adopt an opinion that is on the right side of the spectrum (such as being againstthe Cordoba project), the most compelling arguments against that position come from those who share it? *sigh*

Let's start with the empathy argument. sound innocuous. Until it is accompanied by phases like "they're building a mosque on the site of a Muslim attack". Then, wheter those saying those things admit it or not, or even realize it or not, they stepping right into collective guilt territory.

Well, like or not, Muslims who did not take part in the 9-11 attack and are opposed terrorism do not have to apologize, or feel guilty, or to accept to be held responsible for what happened.

As for empathy, how about directing some the families of victims who SUPPORT the project? Don't their view counts too, or are they to be villified like those who insisted on the Government accounting for its intelligence failures?

Next, for the "a mosque will be built on the site of an attack by Muslims" argument. If that's not guilt by association, then what is. Either the proponent of the project share the motivations and goals of the terrorists, or they don't. As it is fairly clear that they don't, the argument is without value. ESPECIALLY when considering that a place of Muslim worship, namely a room used for that purpose, was destroyed by the terrorists.

[CANADIEN]

How so? By exercising constitutional rights? Should we abstain from exercising these rights in fear that it might cause some type of wedge? Besides, there are many moderate muslims who think the proposed mosque near ground zero is a bad idea.

How dare you Bubber? Don't you realize that you have just committed the capital sin of denying the freedom of expression of right wing haters? (not to say of course, that right-wingers are haters, but some surely are). How could you forget that their freedom of expression is so fragile that even telling them how wrong they are constitute a threat to it.

Never mind that they will be the first to clamnour for curtailment of civil rights (like the Patriot Act) or applaud the likes of Ann "I hate the First Amendment" Coulter.

Edited August 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[jbg]

There's something missing from this debate. The reason that the U.S. and Canada work as free societies is because people exercise their freedom with restraint and discretion. This is not the "French Revolution" type freedom which careens into anarchy and into dictatorship. The minute any group stops exercising restraint the possibility of tyranny arises.

[Smallc]

How is building a community centre which contains a place of worship not exercising restraint?

[jbg]

How is building a community centre which contains a place of worship not exercising restraint?

Because of the abuse of symbolism. 911 was a wanton, senseless massacre. The Muslims are celebrating it.

[Smallc]

Because of the abuse of symbolism. 911 was a wanton, senseless massacre. The Muslims are celebrating it.

Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it...even if it's wrong.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it...even if it's wrong.

The right to do so is not "wrong".

[dre]

128 Pages!!!!

[Bonam]

128 Pages!!!!

48 pages here. Change your pagination settings!

[CANADIEN]

Because of the abuse of symbolism. 911 was a wanton, senseless massacre. The Muslims are celebrating it.

Next time you want to talk about restrain, do yourself a favour and avoid inflammatory, inaccurate and bigoted statements like that one. You have no basis other than bigotry and ignorance to claim the Cordoba projext s a celebration of 9-11.

And don't even bother to make a fool of yourself by arguing that I somehow fail to see the symbolism, yada, yadda, yadda. I am well aware of the symbolism, and of the backlash that will result if the project goes ahead.

[CANADIEN]

The right to do so is not "wrong".

Having the right to say stupid incredibly wrong, and inflammatory, and stupid, and bigoted doesn't make it the right thing to say.

Edited August 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[BubberMiley]

The Muslims are celebrating it.

jbg is exactly the type of people these protestors really are, despite scrambling denials to the contrary: they're totally bigoted, fearful little toadies.

[CANADIEN]

jbg is exactly the type of people these protestors really are, despite scrambling denials to the contrary: they're totally bigoted, fearful little toadies.

Are we talking about opponents that would make that type of statewments, or all opponents period. As an opponent myself, I,d like to know.

[bush_cheney2004]

Having the right to say stupid incredibly wrong, and inflammatory, and stupid, and bigoted doesn't make it the right thing to say.

Typical smug response....who are you to be the arbiter of what is the "right" or "wrong" thing to say? How "incredibly stupid".

[scribblet]

Because of the abuse of symbolism. 911 was a wanton, senseless massacre. The Muslims are celebrating it.

Right on - note they have changed the name from Cordoba Park 51 because of negative symbolism of Cordoba.

[CANADIEN]

Typical smug response....who are you to be the arbiter of what is the "right" or "wrong" thing to say? How "incredibly stupid".

Coming from someone who think the U Government is never wrong no matter what it does... typical laughable non-sense. I think that inflammatory bigoted stements are wrong, and I'll say it. Don't like it, nobody forces you to read it.

Edited August 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Right on - note they have changed the name from Cordoba Park 51 because of negative symbolism of Cordoba.

You mean right in the toilet, right. And note that the name of the project was changed because ignoramous and hate-mongerers distorted the symbolism of the initial name. AFter all, it would be incredibly dangerous to have any reference to a city that was, at the peak of its glory, a place of meeting and dialogyue between Muslims, Christians and Jews.

Edited August 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[scribblet]

You mean right in the toilet, right. And note that the name of the project was changed because ignoramous and hate-mongerers distorted the symbolism of the initial name. AFter all, it would be incredibly dangerous to have any reference to a city that was, at the peak of its glory, a place of meeting and dialogyue between Muslims, Christians and Jews.

There we go again, name calling because you don't like a different opinion LOL

[CANADIEN]

There we go again, name calling because you don't like a different opinion LOL

Actually, name calling would simply be the use of a technique perfected by haters (at both ends of the spectrum).

As for my choice of words, it happen to be a matter of facts.

The unproven claim that the promoters of the Cordoba project are celebrating 9-11 when they have made clear time and time again that such is not their intend belongs in the toilet, the same as Bin Laden's garbage propaganda.

And only ignorance and fear-mongering can explain how the REAL symbolism behind the choice of the name can be missed.

But hey, feel free to show images of promoters of the Cordoba project celebrating the 9-11 "victory"

Edited August 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[jbg]

jbg is exactly the type of people these protestors really are, despite scrambling denials to the contrary: they're totally bigoted, fearful little toadies.

I am not a "bigoted, fearful little toad(y)". I believe we must allow the Muslims to build their celebratory monument community center/mosque. I also believe we must let them know that building this structure is not conciliatory. If they wish to create a permanent adversarial relationship they're going at it just the right way.

Why at that site and nowhere else? Why?

[CANADIEN]

I am not a "bigoted, fearful little toad(y)".

Nope. Merely one who is doing a very good imitation of one.

I believe we must allow the Muslims to build their celebratory monument community center/mosque. I also believe we must let them know that building this structure is not conciliatory. If they wish to create a permanent adversarial relationship they're going at it just the right way.

Why at that site and nowhere else? Why?

Why even bother asking? You already came up with the answer. Never mind what the promotors of the project may say. No matter what supporters of the project may say, including families of victims of 9-11 and Christian and Jewish religious figures. It's because, deep down, they all are glad that 9-11 happened and they want to rub it in New-Yorker's face, right?

Congratulations. You are actually turning me into a supporter.

Edited August 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[bush_cheney2004]

Coming from someone who think the U Government is never wrong no matter what it does... typical laughable non-sense. I think that inflammatory bigoted stements are wrong, and I'll say it. Don't like it, nobody forces you to read it.

Then why are you against others doing exactly the same thing? You are not "forced to read" or hear it. Keep your brand of censorship in Canada.