Mosque going up in NYC building

[lictor616]

We know how to deal with this,don't we?

I was banned for 3 months... hard to reply under such circumstances.

[Jack Weber]

I was banned for 3 months... hard to reply under such circumstances.

Interesting...

What got you banned?

[bush_cheney2004]

wow want a medal? "we americans waste FAR more resources then you in aiding the gangster state of israel... we win" and we don't even flinch when they try to sink our ships as surely as they did when they attacked the USS liberty.

in proportion to our GDP and population, its pretty similar. btw...

No it isn't....Canada is largely irrelevant..it wields little influence and has even fewer interests to be protected. Playing American wannabe won't work here either.

[lictor616]

Interesting...

What got you banned?

yes for an article on the topic of racial disparities in specific diseases... the article quoted the CDC at length, i really didn,t understand...

[lictor616]

No it isn't....Canada is largely irrelevant..it wields little influence and has even fewer interests to be protected. Playing American wannabe won't work here either.

again not disputing that... that doesn,t change that the US is dominated by Israel.

[Jack Weber]

yes for an article on the topic of racial disparities in specific diseases... the article quoted the CDC at length, i really didn,t understand...

Whites are prone to skin cancers and psychological disorders...

Blacks are prone to sickle cell anemia and certain forms of diabetes...

Southern Europeans have less instances of heart disease because of their diet.

Asians,particularily the Japanese,have a longer life span because of a high seafood,rice and,vegetable diet...

film at 11...

[bush_cheney2004]

again not disputing that... that doesn,t change that the US is dominated by Israel.

Correct...the US is "dominated" like a fox. Like having another state the size of New Jersey in the Middle East. Spent some time in Haifa myself back in the 70's for an emergency port call. So dominated! LOL!

[lictor616]

Whites are prone to skin cancers and psychological disorders...

Blacks are prone to sickle cell anemia and certain forms of diabetes...

Southern Europeans have less instances of heart disease because of their diet.

Asians,particularily the Japanese,have a longer life span because of a high seafood,rice and,vegetable diet...

film at 11...

I argued that the reason for many of these differences were genetic...

dat beez raycissum do...

[Bonam]

the US is dominated by Israel.

Lol, some domination.

[Jack Weber]

I argued that the reason for many of these differences were genetic...

dat beez raycissum do...

Did you argue that it was genetic inferiority,or genetic difference?

Because there is a huge difference...

[bloodyminded]

what? a moment ago I heard you railing about the vast squander and loss of wealth resulting form america's presence in Afghanistan and Iraq!

You did not hear me saying it a moment ago. You've confused me with another poster. I do think these interventions have been wasteful, but I'm thinking in terms of human lives, not money.

How does America benefit from its current ties with israel

Israel is a US client state--they're useful as a militarized ally in a resource-rich region. Egypt's client-state status is along the same lines, though of somewhat lesser importance.

and in turn Israel has the largest sex slave operation in the world

I don't know about the sex slave operaiton; no doubt it's an issue, as it is virtually everywhere, but do you have evidence that it's the largest in the world?

(with tens of thousands of Ukrainian, Russian and Western European girls being subject to unspeakable rape and humiliation by jews)- and nothing is done in Israel because... guess what .. GOYIM ARE NOT CONSIDERED HUMAN AND HENCE aren't afforded protection under law

Of course Jewish people consider goyim human. What are you talking about? The Jews are not some other, sinister species. Don't you know any Jewish people? If so, haven't you noticed that they don't consider you inferior?

I think you're edging close to an uncomfortable line here (no doubt you'd call such concerns "political correctness); this is the same kind of ugly nonsense people habitually say about Arabs and Muslims generally, and it's equally false.

Further, your remark about sex slaves undergoing horrors at the hands of "Jews" smacks of bigotry against the Jews; because even if it's accurate, the Jewishness of the perpetrators is utterly irrelevant. Do you talk about the sex-slave trade in Eastern Europe as the humuliaiton and rape of girls by White people or Goyim?

And then you factor treasonous incidents such as the cowardly attack of the USS liberty in an attempt to sink it and bring america into a war against egypt and the rest of the middle east and levant states

Even if this incident is exactly what its critics claim...how do you suppose it's "treasonous"?

I've also been deemed a "traitor" by posters elsewhere for my criticism of the government...of somebody else's country.!

Right or wrong, it's not "treason."

so tell me, what possible benefits are they getting from this relationship?

A de facto police force in a resource-rich region. The US used to have something similar throughout Latin America, though they have lost many of their allies there.

Edited June 1, 2010 by bloodyminded

[WIP]

The problem with your beatific vision is that most muslims do not at all believe in peaceable solutions,

Starting wars and occupying foreign territories isn't exactly peaceful either!

theyre not so stupid in fact- If you read the Quran, many utterances and blood oaths to kill infidels are made.

Ever read your Old Testament? If Christians and Jews can stickhandle what's written in the books that deal with the Conquest of Canaan and Kings & II Kings for example, I'm sure the Muslims have many creative ways to reinterpret the seige of Mecca and conquest of Arabia.

Numbers 31 KJV

31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

They are intractable and hostile when they live in our Western Nations, and the ones who aren't are merely appearing nice as a ploy to fool our own liberal shysters and fools- of course there are exceptions (which you conveniently focus on and take as the norm)

Paranoid nonsense! It's as if they are going through the motions when they go to work, send their kids to school, buy houses, cars etc....all that means nothing to them by this logic. What they are really focused on is waiting until their sleeper cells are activated.

Here in the real world, my neighbourhood has a sizable Muslim population. The only thing that annoys me is the way they react when I'm walking my dog...something to do with dogs being unclean and so forth. Well, everybody knows dogs aren't clean! That's why you wash your hands after handling them.

The global arena is a zero sum game: because as you even conceded: resources are limited... by sharing them they do not INCREASE... as should obvious to anyone with half a brain. You don't get more by cooperating- and states will pursue their interests in an anarchic world: which is based in relative gains vis a vis others.

Fighting wars is one of the greatest consumers of those resources! And as soon as nukes are involved, it's game over for everyone...and that makes it ultimately a non-zero sum game. Reducing over-consumption of those resources would be a preferred route to follow...especially taking control of energy policy away from the oil industry.

[bloodyminded]

Starting wars and occupying foreign territories isn't exactly peaceful either!

Ever read your Old Testament? If Christians and Jews can stickhandle what's written in the books that deal with the Conquest of Canaan and Kings & II Kings for example, I'm sure the Muslims have many creative ways to reinterpret the seige of Mecca and conquest of Arabia.

Numbers 31 KJV

31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Paranoid nonsense! It's as if they are going through the motions when they go to work, send their kids to school, buy houses, cars etc....all that means nothing to them by this logic. What they are really focused on is waiting until their sleeper cells are activated.

Here in the real world, my neighbourhood has a sizable Muslim population. The only thing that annoys me is the way they react when I'm walking my dog...something to do with dogs being unclean and so forth. Well, everybody knows dogs aren't clean! That's why you wash your hands after handling them.

Fighting wars is one of the greatest consumers of those resources! And as soon as nukes are involved, it's game over for everyone...and that makes it ultimately a non-zero sum game. Reducing over-consumption of those resources would be a preferred route to follow...especially taking control of energy policy away from the oil industry.

Awesome response. I enjoyed the passages from the Religion of Hate.

Edited June 1, 2010 by bloodyminded

[waratheis]

so what?

[Guest American Woman]

Interestingly enough, while bigots of all stripes scream bloody murder over the community centre, some relatives of 9/11 victims even adopted Islam after 9/11:

To each their own I guess.

Yes, anyone who opposes this one mosque, a mosque going up due to the actions of some Muslims, is a bigot. We get that. Even the former Muslim I quoted is a bigot against Muslims. She should just shut up and tolerate all the things she's spoken out against. But as for the two who adopted Islam after 9-11, who cares?? You do realize some Muslims have converted to Christianity, too, right? Many haven't fared as well as those who have converted to Islam, though. Care to tell us why? And yeah, yeah. I'm a bigot for bringing that fact up. I get it.

Edited June 1, 2010 by American Woman

[Jack Weber]

Ever read your Old Testament? If Christians and Jews can stickhandle what's written in the books that deal with the Conquest of Canaan and Kings & II Kings for example, I'm sure the Muslims have many creative ways to reinterpret the seige of Mecca and conquest of Arabia.

Numbers 31 KJV

31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

This is precsely why I never impune Islam in these discussions.The main reason is that I don't think Islam is the problem...Islamofascism is the problem and it's quite different.I believe the Islamofascists have learned quite well from 2 distinct groups within there cultural realm.

1.The extreme fundimentalist,and insuler,sects of Islam(such as the Wahabi sect)that only believes in a strict interpetation of the Koran.

2.More importantly,the Pan-Arabists and Ba'Athists who are secular,and whose influences can be traced back to Fascism and it's extreme brother,NAZIsm

[lictor616]

Starting wars and occupying foreign territories isn't exactly peaceful either!

Ever read your Old Testament? If Christians and Jews can stickhandle what's written in the books that deal with the Conquest of Canaan and Kings & II Kings for example, I'm sure the Muslims have many creative ways to reinterpret the seige of Mecca and conquest of Arabia.

Numbers 31 KJV

31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Paranoid nonsense! It's as if they are going through the motions when they go to work, send their kids to school, buy houses, cars etc....all that means nothing to them by this logic. What they are really focused on is waiting until their sleeper cells are activated.

Here in the real world, my neighbourhood has a sizable Muslim population. The only thing that annoys me is the way they react when I'm walking my dog...something to do with dogs being unclean and so forth. Well, everybody knows dogs aren't clean! That's why you wash your hands after handling them.

Fighting wars is one of the greatest consumers of those resources! And as soon as nukes are involved, it's game over for everyone...and that makes it ultimately a non-zero sum game. Reducing over-consumption of those resources would be a preferred route to follow...especially taking control of energy policy away from the oil industry.

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/more.html

O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou has paid their cowers; and those whom they right hand possesses out of the captives of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated with thee; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her - this only for thee, and not for the believers [at large]; We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess - in order that there should be no diff~culty for thee. And Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful (Surat Al-Ahzab 33:50).

http://www.salon.com/mwt/letters/200..._3/index1.html

Chapter 33 verse 50 of the Koran:

"O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage a privilege for thee only, not for the [rest of] believers. We are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hand possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Thus, the Prophet is given sexual access to first cousins, captives, and any believing woman whom he desires to wed. In fact, he is given certain liberties denied to all others. Allah is here not only forgiving but also quite liberal, at least on the behalf of his Prophet. The term "whom your right hand possesses" refers to women captured in battle. Captive women were considered legitimate trophies of war and in fact the Prophet marries a Jewess whose husband has been slain. Although we can construe this practice to be "pro-sexuality," it is hard to imagine how this paleolithic approach to romance serves the interests of feminism.

..rules in Chapter 24 of the Koran are revealed in response to an alleged tryst between Aishah, Muhammad's child bride and a young soldier. Afraid of losing his prized pubescent amour, the Prophet was comforted when God revealed to him that she could not be convicted without four eyewitnesses. As the supposed "roll in the sand" between Aishah and her young soldier took place in the wastelands of Arabia, there was little chance of her accusers meeting these high standards of evidence.

(Inserted by Simon: The above is an example of how conveniently allah reveals himself to mohammad.

Note also the requirement for four eyewitnessses to a rape essentially also condones rape in that it renders it practically impossible to prove it. )

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/mohwar3.html

Mohammed attacked the Banu-L-Mustaliq because of their wealth. In a surprise raid, the Muslims drove them to the Sea. They slaughtered many members of the Banu-N-Mustaliq Tribe and looted away a booty of 2000 Camels, 5000 Sheep and 500 Women! 500 women were captured screaming and crying after they had watched their husbands and sons being slaughtered. The most beautiful captive was Juwayriyya, daughter of the chief of the Banu-L-Mustaliq. Mohammed snatched her to satisfy his own animal lust. The captured women were supposed to be returned by the Muslims upon payment of a ransom. But the night after the battle itself, Mohammed and his army raped each and every one of them. One of the men Abu Sa'id Khudri of Mohammed's army reported :

"We were lusting after women and chastity had become too hard for us, but we wanted to get the ransom money for our prisoners. So we wanted to use the "Azl" (Coitus Interruptus- where the man withdraws before ejaculating)...We asked the Prophet about it and he said: "You are not under any obligation to stop yourselves from doing it like that.." Later on the women and children were given for ransom to their envoys. They all went away to their country and not One wanted to stay although they had the choice.."

Koran 4:24

"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."

You also glance ove rthe fact that the Muslims here majoritarily want sharia law... It almost passed in Toronto in 2004!

and i'm paranoid? you're willfully obtuse.

[lictor616]

This is precsely why I never impune Islam in these discussions.The main reason is that I don't think Islam is the problem...

howabout, Islam, Christianity and Judaism is the problem? what possible benefit does either of these creeds provide us with?

[Jack Weber]

howabout, Islam, Christianity and Judaism is the problem? what possible benefit does either of these creeds provide us with?

Because I'm neither an Evolutionist or an Atheist...

[lictor616]

Because I'm neither an Evolutionist or an Atheist...

uh, okay, thank you for letting me know that you are neither rational nor lucid.

[Jack Weber]

uh, okay, thank you for letting me know that you are neither rational nor lucid.

You sure you wanna go there,considering your general take on things?

[lictor616]

You sure you wanna go there,considering your general take on things?

have something specific as an example?

[Jack Weber]

have something specific as an example?

Really?

How 'bout most of the folks general reaction to your takes on things...

[WIP]

Your Quran-quote mining completely missed the point, since I already noted that you can find repulsive verses in all of these old holy books.

The question is what do religious adherents today believe. Do they believe they can win a religious war between Christianity and Islam? Or do they believe that in this already dangerous world of nuclear weapons and ecological catastrophes, we either all live together or we all die together! Wars of conquest are mutually assured destruction.

Muslims who want a better quality of life for their children are going to do what the Christians and Jews who don't have suicidal urges already do -- ignore the crap about smiting enemies and stress the verses that apply universal values.

You also glance ove rthe fact that the Muslims here majoritarily want sharia law... It almost passed in Toronto in 2004!

It was sharia arbitration panels, not Sharia Law! They would apply in areas of civil law, and when the controversy erupted, most of us here in Ontario discovered for the first time that there were already Orthodox Jewish and Christian fundamentalist religious arbitration panels operating in the province for years! The McGuinty Government had to ban them also when they struck down the proposal for Sharia arbitration. And Muslim-haters who keep bringing up this story about how Ontario almost got Sharia Law five years ago, seem to forget the part of the story about the proposal being stopped by Muslim women's groups who opposed introducing Sharia arbitration here. Likely because it doesn't fit the narrative about a fascist religious movement seeking world domination that keeps their women oppressed.

[WIP]

This is precsely why I never impune Islam in these discussions.The main reason is that I don't think Islam is the problem...Islamofascism is the problem and it's quite different.I believe the Islamofascists have learned quite well from 2 distinct groups within there cultural realm.

I'm a little dubious about this term "Islamofascism." It's a little simplistic to concoct a hybrid of Islam and Fascism, since the Christian version is generally understood as a fascist state appealing to religious authority to reinforce their control over the people.

1.The extreme fundimentalist,and insuler,sects of Islam(such as the Wahabi sect)that only believes in a strict interpetation of the Koran.

The Wahabis and the Saud family would have lost control without U.S. intervention. Who's to blame for the influence that Wahabis have now in the Muslim World, when the U.S. followed a policy for decades of backing them as enemies of Communism.

2.More importantly,the Pan-Arabists and Ba'Athists who are secular,and whose influences can be traced back to Fascism and it's extreme brother,NAZIsm

Bingo! All these problems with Islamism may have never happened if the U.S. had not supported the clerics and religious parties as allies against the left wing nationalists in many Arab countries. They built them up, and now they are trying to knock them down.

All this talk now from the Right about the need for secularism and moderates in the Muslim World, ignores the fact that there was a wave of secularism throughout the Muslim World for several decades, but the U.S. supported all of the Islamist groups to bring down these leftwing secular nationalists. Now they are trying to kill off the allies that they created in a number of cases.