What amount of immigration do you support?

[Michael Hardner]

First, I have nowhere mentioned religion. Secondly, an obvious US example that illustrates that they were in fact very much thinking about their descendants who would inherit their civilization:

Right. I retract that but it doesn`t change things much if we replace religion with `non-brown people` as eyeball asserted.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Sounds like a good idea to me. It`s a mutation to imagine that we should worship the race (or religion - my assertion) of the people who established the United States, rather than marveling at the success of their ideas and their vision.

[Bonam]

Sounds like a good idea to me. It`s a mutation to imagine that we should worship the race (or religion - my assertion) of the people who established the United States, rather than marveling at the success of their ideas and their vision.

The point wasn't worshiping a race but that people have every right to consider the future of their descendants. The posterity in question is, in eyeball's estimation, dying out, and he seems to be happy at this fact. That is what I find objectionable.

In my opinion, we should always be looking at ways to ensure the continuance of our civilization. And yes, that includes that the sentiment that the physical posterity of our current civilization should exist in the future, not simply that the ideas upon which the civilization is founded should continue to exist in the future.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Bonam

[Muddy]

Our past is not just a museum of old faces, and the races and religions of our grandparents. They fought for an ideal that makes Canada a place to come to.

How are we destroying the heritage that allowed people to immigrate ?

Yes our past is made up of old faces, races and religions. Why would we want to throw away what made us a great nation. I welcome all who come here ,hoping they will assimilate into our culture and make our history their own.

I want people to practice their faith freely but not to impose their faith. Such as Sharia law, honour killings, forced arranged marriages etc that are not part of our culture. Bring on the qualified immigrants, no matter their religion or colour of skin, that will not be a burden and who will adapt to our culture. That will allow women the same rights as the rest of us. To be a great nation ,the people of that nation must have a common thread of history and culture. Official multiculturism will keep us separate and ghettoized in our own little worlds within Canada.

[Michael Hardner]

The point wasn't worshiping a race but that people have every right to consider the future of their descendants. The posterity in question is, in eyeball's estimation, dying out, and he seems to be happy at this fact. That is what I find objectionable.

In my opinion, we should always be looking at ways to ensure the continuance of our civilization. And yes, that includes that the sentiment that the physical posterity of our current civilization should exist in the future, not simply that the ideas upon which the civilization is founded should continue to exist in the future.

I think eyeball was just shrugging at the inevitability of it all, but maybe he can respond.

I don`t feel racial pride, I don`t think, nor do I feel shame. I do hope for the continuance of the civilization, and the human race though.

[Michael Hardner]

To be a great nation ,the people of that nation must have a common thread of history and culture. Official multiculturism will keep us separate and ghettoized in our own little worlds within Canada.

Western democracy became great by establishing a new set of rules: laws based on rights, meant to allow people to pursue their own dreams. Rather than being great by having a common thread of history and culture, the West became great by offering work and less meddling in individual affairs.

Official multiculturalism provides a framework for races to engage with each other, but ultimately the cultures will melt together as Eyeball has pointed out. Multiculturalism doesn`t, IMO, invade all of our lives on a daily basis: we must still work together and engage with each other.

[Machjo]

As for comments on race and bloodlines, I have a few points to make:

1. The land now known as Canada comprised many Nations scattered across the continent even before the Europeans came. If one is so concerned about bloodlines, then certainly he must support shipping all non-aboriginal people back. But oh my, what to do about the Metis? Shoot them? And if the white man could come, then why not others after him?

Yes, a common nation requires a common set of laws, language, and culture. These are not borne out of blood, but are nurtured through education.

Even Britain and France have undergone many changes over the generations. Certainly a few handsome Roman soldiers ended up marrying a few local British ladies and having children with them. Same with the French in Britain, and the roman in France, and the French in Algeria and their colonies. And same with the British and French in Canada with the First Nations and immigrants since.

I doubt anyone here has any kind of 'pure' blood line.

[Machjo]

Also a point about religion. Religious demographics are ever changing. At one time the Christian Faith itself did not even exist, and Britain was dominated by pagan beliefs. Some Britons are recorded to have professed Islam as early as 4 centuries ago at least, and Spain was once under Muslim rule.

The constant change in religious demographics has ever been changing, and any notion that there ever was a time when religious demographics were not changing is merely rewriting history.

[eyeball]

I think eyeball was just shrugging at the inevitability of it all, but maybe he can respond.

Aye, you nailed it.

I don`t feel racial pride, I don`t think, nor do I feel shame. I do hope for the continuance of the civilization, and the human race though.

I'd settle for a little grace and dignity at the end. Things seem to have turned out okay for dinosaurs after all was said and done.

[eyeball]

I doubt anyone here has any kind of 'pure' blood line.

I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure I'm a pure blooded Earthling, albeit a pink one.

[Bonam]

Aye, you nailed it.

Nothing need be inevitable.

I'd settle for a little grace and dignity at the end. Things seem to have turned out okay for dinosaurs after all was said and done.

Except that they're 60 million years dead... Perhaps you are ok with extinction and would like to do it with "grace" but I would rather attempt to prevent it. Fight to the bitter end, etc; all associated cliches apply.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Bonam

[eyeball]

Nothing need be inevitable.

Except that they're 60 million years dead... Perhaps you are ok with extinction and would like to do it with "grace" but I would rather attempt to prevent it. Fight to the bitter end, etc; all associated cliches apply.

Not all dinosaurs went extinct. The one's who accepted the inevitable turned into birds.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Not all dinosaurs went extinct. The one's who accepted the inevitable turned into birds.

You make it sound like they chose to turn into birds. Also birds ruled the earth for a long time before mammals gained power.

[dizzy]

Except that they're 60 million years dead... Perhaps you are ok with extinction and would like to do it with "grace" but I would rather attempt to prevent it. Fight to the bitter end, etc; all associated cliches apply.

Move further north. Immigrants won't go where the jobs aren't. Maybe the Inuit will help you build and sustain a pink safe zone. Just remember not to boink them.

[Machjo]

I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure I'm a pure blooded Earthling, albeit a pink one.

Same here.

[Argus]

You gave us 600 yrs of amazing innovation and progress on your last run. I look forward to seeing how the next groups follow up.

Given how they're doing in their own countries I'm not encouraged by their chances.

[wyly]

As for comments on race and bloodlines, I have a few points to make:

1. The land now known as Canada comprised many Nations scattered across the continent even before the Europeans came. If one is so concerned about bloodlines, then certainly he must support shipping all non-aboriginal people back. But oh my, what to do about the Metis? Shoot them? And if the white man could come, then why not others after him?

Yes, a common nation requires a common set of laws, language, and culture. These are not borne out of blood, but are nurtured through education.

Even Britain and France have undergone many changes over the generations. Certainly a few handsome Roman soldiers ended up marrying a few local British ladies and having children with them. Same with the French in Britain, and the roman in France, and the French in Algeria and their colonies. And same with the British and French in Canada with the First Nations and immigrants since.

I doubt anyone here has any kind of 'pure' blood line.

you're right there extremely few canadians with "pure" bloodlines, you might find some in the native population but as for europeans we're all mutts even those who think themselves pure...and even with natives if you retrace the genetics back far enough everyone here is related to them as well...

and to repeat something I've mention in other threads..there is no such thing as race, race is a social invention not a biological distinction...race was intended to establish ethnic superiority/dominance over other groups...we are all related, we're all family, we are all out of africa, some of us just left sooner than others...

[Keepitsimple]

I don't care where immigrants come from or what colour or shape they come in. What I do care about is their ability to bring skills and usefulness to Canada in a manner that benefits Canada and allows the immigrant to support the full extent of their family. I view immigration therough the lens of second and third generations. Bias, prejudice, or even racism is mostly dissipated when Canadian-born children of immigrants have gone through our schooling system. I mean, how much bias can people really have when a person who looks a little different speaks exactly the same as we do and plays hockey or tennis or baseball and listens to the same music? I think that's the wonderful thing about immigration - those second and third generation Canadians.

Having said that, I'm disappointed that political correctness means we can't fully analyse the effects of immigration selection....in terms of country of origin and the success rates of immigration - i.e. - what percentage of immigrants end up on some form of Social Assistance or acquire a criminal record. Such statistics, if used to apply a more rigorous selection criteria, would be shouted down as "Racial Profiling"......and that's a damn shame.

[dizzy]

Given how they're doing in their own countries I'm not encouraged by their chances.

Don't be such a pessimist! It was only a generation ago that those europeans, on whom our glorious traditions were founded, were engaged in great acts of war, pillage, rape and genocide. And look at how peaceful and productive they are now.

[Michael Hardner]

Not all dinosaurs went extinct. The one's who accepted the inevitable turned into birds.

That's a quote of the week.

[justme]

Move further north. Immigrants won't go where the jobs aren't.

Or where they aren't qualified for the jobs that are available. It's called white flight and it's been around for decades.

[justme]

Also a point about religion. Religious demographics are ever changing. At one time the Christian Faith itself did not even exist, and Britain was dominated by pagan beliefs. Some Britons are recorded to have professed Islam as early as 4 centuries ago at least, and Spain was once under Muslim rule.

The constant change in religious demographics has ever been changing, and any notion that there ever was a time when religious demographics were not changing is merely rewriting history.

The last Islamic invasion, not including recent immigration, of Europe ended September 11th 1683.

You fail to grasp one of the key points that started this debate: the population of a democractic country should not have such radical change forced on them by people that are paid to represent them without their consent. If it is so good and has so much support, why use deception?

[justme]

The land now known as Canada comprised many Nations scattered across the continent even before the Europeans came. If one is so concerned about bloodlines, then certainly he must support shipping all non-aboriginal people back. But oh my, what to do about the Metis? Shoot them? And if the white man could come, then why not others after him?

Because someone else may have lived in your house before you bought it, does that mean that anyone off the street should be able to walk in when they want? Many Muslim countries used to be Christian, and no, I don't argue that they should return that land to Christians. European settlers built this country, and their descendents shouldn't have to feel like minorities. Instead of regurgitating the same old tired argument that liberals have been ramming down everyones throats for years, try thinking for yourself.

Even Britain and France have undergone many changes over the generations.

And they have suffered terrorist attacks, racial riots and burning cars, to name a few examples, as a result, but hey, that's just part of life in utopia right?

[justme]

Nothing need be inevitable.

France gave in to what they thought was inevitable in WWII. The British refused to give in and the Jews went on to create a country and have done pretty good for themselves. For better or for worse, the world is defined by those that take the driver's seat not by those that are content to sit in the passenger's seat.

[justme]

Don't be such a pessimist! It was only a generation ago that those europeans, on whom our glorious traditions were founded, were engaged in great acts of war, pillage, rape and genocide. And look at how peaceful and productive they are now.

Your idea of a generation is a little bit on the long side. However, countries like Canada, United States and Australia are young compared to other countries that still can't get it right.

[bloodyminded]

France gave in to what they thought was inevitable in WWII. The British refused to give in and the Jews went on to create a country and have done pretty good for themselves. For better or for worse, the world is defined by those that take the driver's seat not by those that are content to sit in the passenger's seat.

But WW2 was not fought for the purpose of liberating the Jewish victims. They were scarcely mentioned.

Hell, even by the early 1950s, when Raul Hilberg was starting the very field of Holocaust Studies as we know them, he was advised by everyone--everyone--not to bother.