Proposal to fix refugee system

[Moonbox]

The Immigration Minister has put forth a recommendation to change some of the processes for refugee immigration claimants. Mainly it looks like he wants to stem the abuse of the system from bogus refugee claims.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/generous-welfare-lures-dubious-migrants-to-canada-minister-says/article1519393/

There's absolutely no reason a refugee claim should take 4-5 years to process -- especially when we are paying welfare benefits to these people the entire time.

[Born Free]

The Immigration Minister has put forth a recommendation to change some of the processes for refugee immigration claimants. Mainly it looks like he wants to stem the abuse of the system from bogus refugee claims.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/generous-welfare-lures-dubious-migrants-to-canada-minister-says/article1519393/

There's absolutely no reason a refugee claim should take 4-5 years to process -- especially when we are paying welfare benefits to these people the entire time.

It would be a big step forward if the Feds were to actually focus on itself (rather than the provinces) and actually do something to fix/speed up the claim process.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Born Free

[Moonbox]

It would be a big step forward if the Feds were to actually focus on itself (rather than the provinces) and actually do something to fix/speed up the claim process.

Read the whole article. It says at the end that part of the proposal is to eliminate half of the appeal process for claimaints from 'safe' countries.

Regardless, it's the provinces who are dangling the carrot in front of these people's faces and they need to make changes too.

[capricorn]

I hope the new reforms will make it easier to find refugee claimants who go awol and don't show up at their hearings. The government has lost track of thousands of these people. A lot of them have probably used Canada as a stepping stone to getting into the US. Who and how many is the question.

[Mr.Canada]

The refugee system is broken. I don't think anyone can argue with that, even immigrants want it fixed. So I think anything will be better then what we have now.

[Bonam]

The refugee system is broken. I don't think anyone can argue with that, even immigrants want it fixed. So I think anything will be better then what we have now.

It definitely does need fixed. However, the argument "anything is better than what we have now" doesn't really hold. Things can ALWAYS be worse.

[Mr.Canada]

It definitely does need fixed. However, the argument "anything is better than what we have now" doesn't really hold. Things can ALWAYS be worse.

Hehe, yeah it sure could be worse. The new reforms coming won't make it any worse and it's worth a shot.

[wyly]

The Immigration Minister has put forth a recommendation to change some of the processes for refugee immigration claimants. Mainly it looks like he wants to stem the abuse of the system from bogus refugee claims.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/generous-welfare-lures-dubious-migrants-to-canada-minister-says/article1519393/

There's absolutely no reason a refugee claim should take 4-5 years to process -- especially when we are paying welfare benefits to these people the entire time.

I don't think anyone has a problem with this reject and eject bogus refugees and speed up the process for legitimate claims...this will require hiring more civil servants to expedite the process which will cost $$$$$$, so we save on welfare for bogus claims but it could cost us more in civil service wages...

one quick fix that costs nothing is reject all refugee claims from the EU, the Hungarian gypsies making claims here could seek refugee status within other EU countries...if Hungary is indeed persecuting gypsies it's an EU problem to solve...

[Michael Hardner]

Good points, Wyly. I want to point out that hiring one civil servant would mean that $ X of bogus claims would be saved, for a lifetime in Canada.

[wyly]

Good points, Wyly. I want to point out that hiring one civil servant would mean that $ X of bogus claims would be saved, for a lifetime in Canada.

we'd have to weigh the cost of civil servants wage $40-100,000 per year vs $500 or so we pay every month in welfare to refugee status claimers...saying it would be for a lifetime would be a generalization most would seek employment, we can let them work while they're waiting for their claims to be processed ...

what ever it costs us in wages we have to chalk up to the cost of doing business, functional governments like any business come with overhead...

[Michael Hardner]

we'd have to weigh the cost of civil servants wage $40-100,000 per year vs $500 or so we pay every month in welfare to refugee status claimers...saying it would be for a lifetime would be a generalization most would seek employment, we can let them work while they're waiting for their claims to be processed ...

All true. But it's just a formula, with the parameters being known or largely estimable.

[Moonbox]

we'd have to weigh the cost of civil servants wage $40-100,000 per year vs $500 or so we pay every month in welfare to refugee status claimers...

Wyly I like your previous point I think it should be an EU problem to solve for sure, but even then there are still thousands of bogus applicants from other countries that we'll end up supporting on welfare anyways.

As for the cost of civil servants vs cost of welfare for refugees, I highly doubt that we have 1 civil servant for every 6-8 refugee claimants. I think this might be a case where more government would actually save money. The thought itself is crazy isn't it .

[wyly]

Wyly I like your previous point I think it should be an EU problem to solve for sure, but even then there are still thousands of bogus applicants from other countries that we'll end up supporting on welfare anyways.

Hungary apparently is the number one source of refugee claims, so it's a good place to start...and you don't know if there are thousands of bogus claims, that's why there is a process to determine that, it just works to slowly...

As for the cost of civil servants vs cost of welfare for refugees, I highly doubt that we have 1 civil servant for every 6-8 refugee claimants. I think this might be a case where more government would actually save money. The thought itself is crazy isn't it .

I don't know the numbers I was only pointing out what is needed to expedite the process, there's a lot of paperwork involved and it consumes time...

[Dave_ON]

Hungary apparently is the number one source of refugee claims, so it's a good place to start...and you don't know if there are thousands of bogus claims, that's why there is a process to determine that, it just works to slowly...

I don't know the numbers I was only pointing out what is needed to expedite the process, there's a lot of paperwork involved and it consumes time...

It seems to me this process has already begun, was it not recently made a requirement for Hungarians to obtain visa's prior to travelling to Canada? Maybe that was another gypsie producing EU nation.

[Moonbox]

It seems to me this process has already begun, was it not recently made a requirement for Hungarians to obtain visa's prior to travelling to Canada? Maybe that was another gypsie producing EU nation.

I think it was the Czech Republic and Mexico that we did it too. Regardless, EU members shouldn't have refugees and if they do they should sort it out themselves.

As for bogus claims, there are thousands indeed. I read an article where they said almost 60% of claims were withdrawn partway (after they got to Canada and started on social assistance already) or flat out rejected. Those are some pretty bad numbers.

[Wilber]

we'd have to weigh the cost of civil servants wage $40-100,000 per year vs $500 or so we pay every month in welfare to refugee status claimers...saying it would be for a lifetime would be a generalization most would seek employment, we can let them work while they're waiting for their claims to be processed ...

what ever it costs us in wages we have to chalk up to the cost of doing business, functional governments like any business come with overhead...

Maybe not so much. The more difficult you make it to use and abuse the system, the fewer people are likely to try it.

[Mr.Canada]

we'd have to weigh the cost of civil servants wage $40-100,000 per year vs $500 or so we pay every month in welfare to refugee status claimers...saying it would be for a lifetime would be a generalization most would seek employment, we can let them work while they're waiting for their claims to be processed ...

what ever it costs us in wages we have to chalk up to the cost of doing business, functional governments like any business come with overhead...

Well I'm sorry but I don't support fraud as you do. Canada needs a reformed refugee system. Even immigrants know the system is broken. The only ones who wouldn't want it changed are the ignorant, the so called refugee support groups and immigration lawyers who are making a killing off our current system.

[Moonbox]

Well I'm sorry but I don't support fraud as you do. Canada needs a reformed refugee system. Even immigrants know the system is broken. The only ones who wouldn't want it changed are the ignorant, the so called refugee support groups and immigration lawyers who are making a killing off our current system.

Yeah I would have to agree with that, especially the part about immigration lawyers.

[wyly]

Well I'm sorry but I don't support fraud as you do. Canada needs a reformed refugee system. Even immigrants know the system is broken. The only ones who wouldn't want it changed are the ignorant, the so called refugee support groups and immigration lawyers who are making a killing off our current system.

geez you were having such a good day and now you've reverted to talking out of your ass again...

[Mr.Canada]

geez you were having such a good day and now you've reverted to talking out of your ass again...

Hold on. Are you suggesting that the Refugee system is well functioning as is?

[wyly]

It seems to me this process has already begun, was it not recently made a requirement for Hungarians to obtain visa's prior to travelling to Canada? Maybe that was another gypsie producing EU nation.

I don't think visa requirements have changed for Hungary, doing so for an EU country would pose serious political consquences...you're thinking of Mexico and there was a financial backlash for that as legitimate tourism from Mexico fell off, the loss of revenue cost Canada more than the cost of mexican refugees... Edited April 1, 2010 by wyly

[Smallc]

I don't visa requirements have changed for Hungary,

They have not been changed, but, we have imposed Visa requirements on the Czech Republic, another EU country, without serious consequence. They were also abusing our refugee system. If the Visa requirement has worked, we should do the same to Hungary. The visa requirement for Hungary that previously existed was removed in 2008.

[Born Free]

Read the whole article. It says at the end that part of the proposal is to eliminate half of the appeal process for claimaints from 'safe' countries.

Regardless, it's the provinces who are dangling the carrot in front of these people's faces and they need to make changes too.

I am well aware of what the article says. The Federal Minister needs to deal with his own area and not start a silly public war of words with the Provinces. The latter part would have been better done at the dinner table (so to speak)...

Hope you get the drift of my comment a little better..

[Moonbox]

geez you were having such a good day and now you've reverted to talking out of your ass again...

Man I was going to say the same about you here too...It seemed like everyone was being reasonable and having a good discussion. You don't think the immigration system is borked and full of fraud?

[wyly]

They have not been changed, but, we have imposed Visa requirements on the Czech Republic, another EU country, without serious consequence. They were also abusing our refugee system. If the Visa requirement has worked, we should do the same to Hungary. The visa requirement for Hungary that previously existed was removed in 2008.

the consquences will be still coming if that is correct, the EU is a mammoth entity it takes time before all the wheels are turning in the same direction...if/when they retaliate you'll need a separate visa for each EU country you wish to visit, a real pain in the ass for tourists and business...