Ban the Burka?

[ToadBrother]

We've lost the cities to the socialists. Abandon them, let them have them. Come out to the more rural areas and you'd all live much happier and much more peacefully. Common sense rules the day out here for the most part.

Sure you gotta commute sometimes but it's worth it. Bigger backyards, safe neighborhoods, better school conditions for your children, peace and quiet at night. You car insurance will drop dramatically. Ours is only a third of what it was in the city.

Seriously, I think every reasonable person should check it out and see how the other half lives. You might like it.

I live on acreage in a very rural area, am not a socialist, but still think uber-social conservatives like you are wingnuts.

[Oleg Bach]

So let me get this straight. Your wife encountered a rude Muslim in a burka, therefore burkas create rude Muslims. I think even you can see the serious problem with your reasoning.

YOU said that- I was just entertaining you- not competing with you! Maybe you need a black cover to bring out your personality? If you were not so western in your orientation and did not make a point of not seeing the point that ONE of the points and defects of the burka is it allows you to be elite..but you are more interested in being superior ...no wonder the Muslims in part hate oppressive bastards that seek to find the best through western competition..that does not bring out the best but the worst in a capital driven system.

[wyly]

when I think of rural folk I picture "Deliverance"...

[RB]

The bedsheet is not part of their religion, it is part of their determination to uphold and further a warped, backward culture from their homeland. If they admire it so much then whether they were born in canada or not they should go HOME.

There is a lot of resentment regarding the burka. You can't just ban the Burka, it has a history of subservience. The history of the burka has evolved from its usefulness to shed the sands of the dessert, to stop men from looking or fantasizing about women to religion.

I feel somehow that these women are trying to gain independence by putting on their burka. It’s one way to rebel, and very similar to wayward teens of today who make some not so clever choices and wants some independence – these two groups have similar behaviour pattern. Later the teens gain experience and are more education and their brain are more develop, see them turn around their lives & and they have much regrets. Some of them are rebellious for a long time and think the world is against them.

Certain custom we have to accept before you can refine or inquire of change. A woman being passive in the Muslim culture cannot make a change, or voice their distress. A Muslim woman needs “grow up” and to be educated. And I don’t mean educated where words are taken literally out of a holy book and apply it to present day but there are over .7 billion people who do just that.

However, I believe that there is hope to educate Muslim women of the choices they can make and let them decide. Change will happen.

The question I have is what makes our clothing standard above all that we are ready judge others? I mean if burka is not about religion then it is about clothing.

[Oleg Bach]

when I think of rural folk I picture "Deliverance"...

being city and rural..i love them aLL.....HICKS ARE EVERYWHERE..CITY AND COUNTRY..NOW WHERE IS MY BANJO?

[wyly]

being city and rural..i love them aLL.....HICKS ARE EVERYWHERE..CITY AND COUNTRY..NOW WHERE IS MY BANJO?

ya but I don't feel the need to cover my butt in the city...

[Muddy]

we allow circumcision forced upon on boys

1st-how do you know the arranged marriages are forced? I've known a number of asian women and men who want their parents to arrange a marriage

2nd-there are Canadians that have arranged marriages as well

3rd-we do nothing to stop child marriages in Canada-Bountiful BC

1 .When a Gal does not have free choice because the culture dictates that the Father will make the choice should not be allowed in Canada.

2 and 3 There are decent people across canada are horrified ,me being one that this practice is allowed even though it is afainst the law.

4 As for who ever compared circumscion because of little boys are routinely done , the difference is obvious. It is for health reason as the parent sees fit with guidance from a Doctor when the boy child is an infant. The mutilation of a grown girl against her will for cultural reasons is a completely different matter. It has nothing to do with physical health, unless one pictures health as deterring sexual drive and enjoyment by a women.

[bjre]

1 .When a Gal does not have free choice because the culture dictates that the Father will make the choice should not be allowed in Canada.

Nothing is absolute.

Every existing thing has its reason.

Things has its positive side and negative side.

Most problems can have more than one solution.

When you talk about something with no condition and no reason and no deep study and no in depth investigation, this makes others think you are speaking for an interest group, for example, for women's shelter movement. They want take more women there so that they can ask for more money from tax payers. and also courts and cops and lawyers can take more money.

[nbguyca]

There is no good reason to ban these face coverings. Stupid bill.

[Muddy]

Nothing is absolute.

Every existing thing has its reason.

Things has its positive side and negative side.

Most problems can have more than one solution.

When you talk about something with no condition and no reason and no deep study and no in depth investigation, this makes others think you are speaking for an interest group, for example, for women's shelter movement. They want take more women there so that they can ask for more money from tax payers. and also courts and cops and lawyers can take more money.

I can assure you I am not part of any special interest group. My concern is for women who have no advocate or are denyed choice because of any culture or religion. I want every women to have the right to choose their husband within their culture or not.To choose to have kids or not. I want all women to be free to choose these fundamental rights.

[bjre]

I can assure you I am not part of any special interest group. My concern is for women who have no advocate or are denyed choice because of any culture or religion. I want every women to have the right to choose their husband within their culture or not.To choose to have kids or not. I want all women to be free to choose these fundamental rights.

What would you like to suggest to realize/implement those? What would you like to do if you see something not happen as your wish?

[bjre]

I can assure you I am not part of any special interest group. My concern is for women who have no advocate or are denyed choice because of any culture or religion. I want every women to have the right to choose their husband within their culture or not.To choose to have kids or not. I want all women to be free to choose these fundamental rights.

If you hate the father who make choice for his girl on her marriage, you should hate one take away another’s freedom.

But your suggestion that such kind of behavior should not be allowed takes away some other people’s freedom at the same time. They have their culture, they have their religion. And more important, it is possible the result could be not bad although there can be bad examples when the father does that; and it is most likely the father is doing his best thinking for his daughter and take his responsibility with his best wishing and did a correct choice.

I believe if you wish other’s have a better life and better future, it would be better for you to think for them from their point of view. Not just from yours.

For example, in case the daughter in some countries, women get less education. In that case, their ability of making smart choice for the future of themselves could be not strong enough. In this case, when you force their parents give up their arrangement for their daughter may lead to worse situation. So, it can be a better choice to make more education efforts for both parents and their girls. This can take some time for the effect be seen but this can happen when the parents themselves will think it is better to ask their girl’s own idea. Even in Canada, if you force people not do something may lead to strong side effects, and lead to even worse social problems. Just like the States, there are so many laws, but what about the crime rate there?

When people understand that you are really thinking for them and your suggestion really helps them, they will take your advice and thank you from their heart. When they think you just bully them and not respect their culture and religion, more crime will happen and all Canadians will pay that through tax.

Edited March 31, 2010 by bjre

[Muddy]

Bjre and Topic, I really am sorry. I would like to answer but I just don`t understand what your asking or suggesting.

Canada has a culture and I believe those immigrating here should remember why they immigrated here. The culture that exists is the reason why Canada is such a great place to start a new life. Why not accept the norms of Canadian culture ? Why bring prejudices and tribal wars to these shores from a previous homeland? As a Canadian man I can not accept the enslavement of females by their male dominated culture anymore than I can accept slavery of any race. People have a right to be free to make personal choices.Male or Female.

[Guest TrueMetis]

4 As for who ever compared circumscion because of little boys are routinely done , the difference is obvious. It is for health reason as the parent sees fit with guidance from a Doctor when the boy child is an infant. The mutilation of a grown girl against her will for cultural reasons is a completely different matter. It has nothing to do with physical health, unless one pictures health as deterring sexual drive and enjoyment by a women.

Number 4 is utter crap. The "health reasons" are freaking negligable, there is no good reason to have a circumscion on any child male or female. What exaclty are the "health reasons" in favour of circumscion? And don't give me that it reduces STD's crap countries with a high rate of circumscion have a STD rate the same as ones with a low circumscion rate.

[bjre]

Bjre and Topic, I really am sorry. I would like to answer but I just don`t understand what your asking or suggesting.

Canada has a culture and I believe those immigrating here should remember why they immigrated here. The culture that exists is the reason why Canada is such a great place to start a new life. Why not accept the norms of Canadian culture ? Why bring prejudices and tribal wars to these shores from a previous homeland? As a Canadian man I can not accept the enslavement of females by their male dominated culture anymore than I can accept slavery of any race. People have a right to be free to make personal choices.Male or Female.

Slavery should not be the choice. But when a parent choose food for his kids, he dose not enslave his kids. If let the kid choose his own food, the kids may more likely to choose sweet poison than non-sweet health food. It is better make more efforts on educating both kids and their parents (like on how to teach their kids to improve their skill on making a correct choice) than force the parents not to choose food for their kids through laws, cops, jails, courts and other freedom-removing violent methods.

Edited March 31, 2010 by bjre

[Smallc]

Number 4 is utter crap. The "health reasons" are freaking negligable, there is no good reason to have a circumscion on any child male or female. What exaclty are the "health reasons" in favour of circumscion? And don't give me that it reduces STD's crap countries with a high rate of circumscion have a STD rate the same as ones with a low circumscion rate.

Other than foreskin problems (i.e. not enough of it), I don't know why you would need to get a circumcision.

[Muddy]

Bjre, a parent chooseing healthy food has nothing to do with chooseing a wife for your daughter. That is a very strange response.

True Metis, I am not saying circumscion of a male child is healthier . For I am not well educated enough to know. Being ignorant of some health issues we look for guidance from the medical profession. That is where you should direct your statement.

I am recovering from a heart attack. Guess who I take advice from now on my health care? The guy who through medical science saved my life! Not posters on this board.

[bjre]

Bjre, a parent chooseing healthy food has nothing to do with chooseing a wife for your daughter. That is a very strange response.

Your response is strange. I am going to sleep. Bye-bye.

Edited March 31, 2010 by bjre

[scorpio]

4 As for who ever compared circumscion because of little boys are routinely done , the difference is obvious. It is for health reason as the parent sees fit with guidance from a Doctor when the boy child is an infant.

It was commonly done in my generation, and not necessarily for health reasons. And I believe infant Jewish males are still being circumcised?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Other than foreskin problems (i.e. not enough of it), I don't know why you would need to get a circumcision.

And to my knowledge those kind of problems don't often come up in newborns.

Edited March 31, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Smallc]

And to my knowledge those kind of problems don't often come up in newborns.

No, I don't think they do. I believe that my cousin had to be circumcised at 10 because of the problem.

[Peter F]

I can assure you I am not part of any special interest group. My concern is for women who have no advocate or are denyed choice because of any culture or religion. I want every women to have the right to choose their husband within their culture or not.To choose to have kids or not. I want all women to be free to choose these fundamental rights.

Well, as you say, these oppressed women are not getting free choice in those far distant lands. Would it not, therefore, be a good idea to let them come here and be allowed that free choice?

[Shwa]

Well, as you say, these oppressed women are not getting free choice in those far distant lands. Would it not, therefore, be a good idea to let them come here and be allowed that free choice?

Good point Peter F., but the issue is what choices can be made within the context of what is considered normal society including 'eveyone else.' We wouldn't allow a Muslim woman to smoke in a designated smoke-free restaurant because they lacked "free choice" in their previous homeland.

[Muddy]

Well, as you say, these oppressed women are not getting free choice in those far distant lands. Would it not, therefore, be a good idea to let them come here and be allowed that free choice?

A very good point Peter . but I think you inadvertantly made my point. We can do something about female circumscion of pubescent Muslim females by outlawing and condemning this cultural practice here in Canada. Reasonable accomadation ? I don`t think that Canada should give reasonable accomadation to this practice or arranged marriages. Remember some of these arranged marriages are between children and old men. Toleration of our differences should end at a certain points.

I find it so hard to believe ,that men and women on this board ,living in a free and civilized country can condone and defend these so called cultural differences..

[Michael Hardner]

I don`t think that Canada should give reasonable accomadation to this practice or arranged marriages. Remember some of these arranged marriages are between children and old men. Toleration of our differences should end at a certain points.

Now, how are you going to end that ? You need a machine that looks into peoples' hearts to make it work. My friend had a marriage arranged for him in the old country from infancy. They had just arrived in Canada. When they reached adulthood, both parties thought the idea was quaint but had no intention to carry it through.