wyly Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 Canada's former chief of defence staff Rick Hillier slammed a diplomat's testimony that all detainees transferred by Canadians to Afghan prisons were likely tortured by Afghan officials, saying it's "ludicrous." An interesting read... Especially after watching Hillier's bullshit blustering.... Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/11/25/hillier-detainees.html#ixzz0hydOqvVV GLOBE STORY Ottawa knew of alternative Afghan prison-transfer plan The Harper government has always insisted it heard no warnings of torture risks facing Afghan detainees in 2006, but documents show that in the same year it was carefully following a NATO campaign to take responsibility for captured prisoners away from the country’s notorious intelligence service. A memo obtained by The Globe and Mail shows that in 2006 the federal government was briefed on a lobbying campaign by NATO allies aimed at getting the Kabul government to create stronger safeguards for detainees after prisoner abuses elsewhere. and here is a list of abuses by Afghan police and security from the US government that our government claims it knew nothing about... -beating by stick, scorching bar or iron bar -flogging by cable -battering by rod -electric shock -deprivation of sleep, water and food -sexual humiliation and rape -Police frequently raped female detainees and prisoners -harems of young boys for sexual and social entertainment -extrajudicial killings so let's see what was in those blacked out documents the conservatives don't want us to know about... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 and here is a list of abuses by Afghan police and security from the US government that our government claims it knew nothing about... -beating by stick, scorching bar or iron bar -flogging by cable -battering by rod -electric shock -deprivation of sleep, water and food -sexual humiliation and rape -Police frequently raped female detainees and prisoners -harems of young boys for sexual and social entertainment -extrajudicial killings so let's see what was in those blacked out documents the conservatives don't want us to know about... Be honest. Here is a list released yesterdaythat the Harper government did not know about. Further...here is a list released yesterday that the Chretien government did not know about when they decided to avail themselves no longer of the US run facilities. What the Liberasl were thinking when the decided that US failities were politically troublesome is anyones guess. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
waldo Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 Be honest. Here is a list released yesterdaythat the Harper government did not know about. Further...here is a list released yesterday that the Chretien government did not know about when they decided to avail themselves no longer of the US run facilities. What the Liberasl were thinking when the decided that US failities were politically troublesome is anyones guess. but the Liberals! But the Liberals! man-up and take Conservative responsibility for the actual deployment of the (Liberal authorized) Canadian Forces negotiated agreement. Take Conservative responsibility for the inaction/delay in dealing with the realized problems. Take Conservative responsibility for refusing to provide Parliament (committee level) the unredacted documents being sought. Quote
wyly Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) US report citing Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission the same group Ottawa uses to determine whether detainees are are abused or tortured "torture was commonplace among the majority of law enforcement institutions, especially the police" this makes it worse, this wasn't something that was known about and corrected years ago, it's recent events that the conservatives were aware of and did nothing to correct...the government has deliberately chosen to keep us in the dark so Canadians would be deceived into supporting the war effort because we were helping the GOOD guys... so if the conservatives knew which is obvious now they knowingly put the military in a position of being guilty of war crimes... Edited March 12, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 but the Liberals! But the Liberals! man-up and take Conservative responsibility for the actual deployment of the (Liberal authorized) Canadian Forces negotiated agreement. Take Conservative responsibility for the inaction/delay in dealing with the realized problems. Take Conservative responsibility for refusing to provide Parliament (committee level) the unredacted documents being sought. Liberal authored, liberal deployed... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
wyly Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 Liberal authored, liberal deployed... conservatives knew, conservatives did nothing, conservatives lied, conservatives covered up... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
eyeball Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 now about when they decided to avail themselves no longer of the US run facilities. What the Liberasl were thinking when the decided that US failities were politically troublesome is anyones guess. A "take and keep," which the official said raised fears of problems such as those the U.S. encountered with its control of the infamous Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq or its detention of terrorism suspects at its naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. What the Liberal's seem to have been thinking is that Canada's soldiers couldn't be trusted anymore than U.S. soldiers could when it comes to treating prisoners humanely. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 Liberal authored, liberal deployed... conservatives knew, conservatives did nothing, conservatives lied, conservatives covered up... Ottawa dragged us into this, to Canada's shame according to the allegations in the documents our representatives are being denied. This is much bigger than our little ideological differences. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
wyly Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Ottawa dragged us into this, to Canada's shame according to the allegations in the documents our representatives are being denied. This is much bigger than our little ideological differences. that's true, I don't much care if it was liberals or conservatives or both, this is our democracy not a toy to be played with by politcal parties..I don't like being lied to by people who represent me, whose wages I help pay, I want to know the truth...I have a right to know who knew what and when... Edited March 12, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) What the Liberal's seem to have been thinking is that Canada's soldiers couldn't be trusted anymore than U.S. soldiers could when it comes to treating prisoners humanely. of course, no matter how well the recruiting process screens out nutters some will get through, and invariably one of these nutters will kill someone and bring down hell and shame on the entire military...it's a catch 22, hand them over to the afghans and they get tortured raped and murdered or set up our own detention center and possibly have one of our own do the same... I prefer we have our own detention center at least then if someone goes psycho we can deal with him/her, providing no one tries to cover it up then we end up with a bigger problem... Edited March 12, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Born Free Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 .... should the former Liberal government be charged with war crime charges since they knowingly setup this agreement when they with what the reports where coming out of the afgan jails at the time? Dont know about war crime charges being laid...never thought of that as being a possibility or probabability. Public humiliation of the dishonorable folks involved will pretty well do it for me. Quote
Born Free Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Liberal authored, liberal deployed... Horsepucky. Seems there is a lot of horsepucky to go around in both camps. Edited March 12, 2010 by Born Free Quote
Mr.Canada Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) Horsepucky. Seems there is a lot of horsepucky to go around in both camps. Do you have any proof or names of people who were supossedly abused yet? No names = no victims. No victims = no crime. Edited March 12, 2010 by Mr.Canada Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Born Free Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 .... providing no one tries to cover it up then we end up with a bigger problem... Thats what this story is about...very Nixonian... Quote
Born Free Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 Do you have any proof or names of people who were supossedly abused yet? No names = no victims. No victims = no crime. I have them but Harper has asked me to redact the names....stand by... Quote
Mr.Canada Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 I have them but Harper has asked me to redact the names....stand by... I think the left may be fabricating this so they don't have to talk about their strong dislike for Israel during "IAW". Just my own opinion of coarse. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
ToadBrother Posted March 12, 2010 Report Posted March 12, 2010 I think the left may be fabricating this so they don't have to talk about their strong dislike for Israel during "IAW". Just my own opinion of coarse. It's odd how within 24 hours of begging not to be misunderstood because of previous anti-Semitic remarks you've made, you suddenly start spinning that same tactic on to others. Not to mention that this is a non-sequitur and a red herring. I thought you were the guy that was so big on STAYING ON TOPIC. Quote
Born Free Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 It's odd how within 24 hours of begging not to be misunderstood because of previous anti-Semitic remarks you've made, you suddenly start spinning that same tactic on to others. Not to mention that this is a non-sequitur and a red herring. I thought you were the guy that was so big on STAYING ON TOPIC. I recall reading this stuff about him in another thread. Interesting. He does seem to come across as a total whackjob.... Quote
Mr.Canada Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 It's odd how within 24 hours of begging not to be misunderstood because of previous anti-Semitic remarks you've made, you suddenly start spinning that same tactic on to others. Not to mention that this is a non-sequitur and a red herring. I thought you were the guy that was so big on STAYING ON TOPIC. My post is on topic. It wasn't directed at anyone. I was just thinking of it so I posted it. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Born Free Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 My post is on topic. It wasn't directed at anyone. I was just thinking of it so I posted it. Here's an idea for you....think about not posting any more. Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 Dont know about war crime charges being laid...never thought of that as being a possibility or probabability. Public humiliation of the dishonorable folks involved will pretty well do it for me. Just was asking MS dog food since he thinks hiller should be charged. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Mr.Canada Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) Here's an idea for you....think about not posting any more. Any proof to post on the "victim" front yet? Remeber just like in a court of law. No victim = no crime. So until you post a verified victims name for us it didn't happen. Second hand info or gossip doesn't count. The socialists will try to make political hay out of this as much as the ycan then it'll be forgotten. Edited March 13, 2010 by Mr.Canada Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Born Free Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) Any proof to post on the "victim" front yet? Remeber just like in a court of law. No victim = no crime. So until you post a verified victims name for us it didn't happen. Second hand info or gossip doesn't count. Still waiting to hear from Harper. He's hiding the names....wish I could help more... Perhaps you could submit a Freedom of Information request to the government but dont get your hopes up. The DND might alter the document....its been done before under a socialist goverment... Edited March 13, 2010 by Born Free Quote
Mr.Canada Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 Still waiting to hear from Harper. He's hiding the names....wish I could help more... Perhaps you could submit a Freedom of Information request to the government but dont get your hopes up. The DND might alter the document....its been done before under a socialist goverment... BF. The documents have been blacked out for reasons of national security. There is no proof at all that he's hiding anything except what he needs to keep secret in order to keep Canada safe. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
wyly Posted March 13, 2010 Report Posted March 13, 2010 BF. The documents have been blacked out for reasons of national security. There is no proof at all that he's hiding anything except what he needs to keep secret in order to keep Canada safe. :lol: ya the Taliban could invade us at any moment what a crock... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
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