CP Learns that CSIS interrogated tortured Afghan Detainees

[nicky10013]

It's alleged that Afgans tourterd the taliban members, not Canadians. We did our job of handing over POW's to the nation we're supporting. What they do is up to them. We don't have any rights to tell a foreign nation how to secure their nation, that's up to them. Afganistan isn't like Canada and you need to accept that. They are free to govern as they see fit. It's Afganistan not socialist Canada.

You think it's Canada's place to tell a foreign nation how to conduct its affairs, I don't.

It's not about the what the Afghans do. We can't change their behaviour and that's the right way to go about it. However, we can change how we act. Being a party to torture is a war crime. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we submit these people to torture, how can we claim to be fighting for peace and democracy as is always claimed by Conservatives? If they "don't deserve rights" then who does and why are we fighting to begin with? Furthermore, if we're so much better than the Taliban then why are we handing detainees over to people who act the same? If this really is a war of ideas and we want democracy to win, throwing our values under the bus only serves to hurt our cause and lower us to the level of them.

[M.Dancer]

You've just proved that there was only one other capture of an American in Afghanistan by the Taliban. Not exactly usual. Try again.

You don't suppose the only people the Taliban capture are americans do you?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/three-sikhs-beheaded-by-pak-taliban/582704/

It is their normal SOP

[Alta4ever]

It's not about the what the Afghans do. We can't change their behaviour and that's the right way to go about it. However, we can change how we act. Being a party to torture is a war crime. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we submit these people to torture, how can we claim to be fighting for peace and democracy as is always claimed by Conservatives? If they "don't deserve rights" then who does and why are we fighting to begin with? Furthermore, if we're so much better than the Taliban then why are we handing detainees over to people who act the same? If this really is a war of ideas and we want democracy to win, throwing our values under the bus only serves to hurt our cause and lower us to the level of them.

So you must loath the Liberal government that set up the original detainee transfer program, since these cases date back to before the change in agreement by Harper.

[eyeball]

It is their normal SOP

And now its becoming our's because Canadians like you approve. Way to go, no doubt you feel quite proud.

[M.Dancer]

And now its becoming our's because Canadians like you approve. Way to go, no doubt you feel quite proud.

Did the tinfoil truck arrive with your weekly rations enabling you to claim that killing prisoners is our standard operationg procedure?

I'm sorry but I am going to require some credible proof before I make my own hat...

[waldo]

So you must loath the Liberal government that set up the original detainee transfer program, since these cases date back to before the change in agreement by Harper.

nice try - that initial program was deployed by the Conservatives during the transition of governments. Conservatives certainly had free reign to amend that program before deployment... they were in control at that point. Conservatives certainly had an ability to amend that program at any point there after, particularly when all the problems started to be uncovered. As is typical, Conservatives will attempt to deflect any and all responsibility - they would presume to govern in 'name only' and not accept accountability for their actions... or lack of.

[eyeball]

So you must loath the Liberal government that set up the original detainee transfer program, since these cases date back to before the change in agreement by Harper.

But but but the Liberals...This sort of apology is particularly disgusting.

We're talking about CANADA. CANADA is alleged to have acted no better than it's so-called enemies. Are you okay with that?

[M.Dancer]

nice try - that initial program was deployed by the Conservatives during the transition of governments.

Incorrect.

We started taking prisoners right from the start and it was raised in the Commons...afterwards the liberals changed the policy of handing prisoners over to the US and instead gave them to the Afghans.

All this well before the Conservatives were in power.

Before this, the only direct reference to the work of JTF2 in Afghanistan was the embarrassing photograph of JTF2 soldiers escorting captured al-Qaeda prisoners on a tarmac. It resulted in a parliamentary uproar and an investigation into why then-defence minister Art Eggleton did not immediately inform Prime Minister Jean Chrétien that JTF2 had been involved in taking prisoners in Afghanistan

.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/jtf2.html

[eyeball]

Did the tinfoil truck arrive with your weekly rations enabling you to claim that killing prisoners is our standard operationg procedure?

I'm sorry but I am going to require some credible proof before I make my own hat...

Maybe you should learn how to read English before trying to repeat what it is I've actually said.

You've never been sorry for being a liar Mo, never.

[eyeball]

All this well before the Conservatives were in power.

But but but...it still sounds pathetic.

[nicky10013]

Incorrect.

We started taking prisoners right from the start and it was raised in the Commons...afterwards the liberals changed the policy of handing prisoners over to the US and instead gave them to the Afghans.

All this well before the Conservatives were in power.

.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/jtf2.html

So? This is more of the same, "well if the Liberals did it, it must be alright." It isn't! I don't care who did it, this is a national disgrace.

[nicky10013]

Did the tinfoil truck arrive with your weekly rations enabling you to claim that killing prisoners is our standard operationg procedure?

I'm sorry but I am going to require some credible proof before I make my own hat...

What tinfoil? Is this your common response to people whose points you can't refute? Well, what they say may be right but I can still try to make them look like an idiot... Problem is you make yourself look like one in the process.

[M.Dancer]

Maybe you should learn how to read English before trying to repeat what it is I've actually said.

You've never been sorry for being a liar Mo, never.

I am not to blame for the damage caused by your tinfoil ingestion.

I need not explain to you what you said, but I have to cause you have a limited attention span...you said|:

And now its becoming our's (SOP, killing prisoners) because Canadians like you approve.

You have never apologized for being a frothing moron. And no one, especially the tinfoil makers of the world, want you to.

[nicky10013]

I am not to blame for the damage caused by your tinfoil ingestion.

I need not explain to you what you said, but I have to cause you have a limited attention span...you said|:

You have never apologized for being a frothing moron. And no one, especially the tinfoil makers of the world, want you to.

Point proven.

[nicky10013]

I am not to blame for the damage caused by your tinfoil ingestion.

I need not explain to you what you said, but I have to cause you have a limited attention span...you said|:

You have never apologized for being a frothing moron. And no one, especially the tinfoil makers of the world, want you to.

Sorry, double post.

Edited March 8, 2010 by nicky10013

[M.Dancer]

What tinfoil? Is this your common response to people whose points you can't refute? Well, what they say may be right but I can still try to make them look like an idiot... Problem is you make yourself look like one in the process.

I'm sorry? You want me to refute that killing prisoners is our standard operating procedure? Is that the point in question?

Yes tinfoil is my common response to bone numbing stupidity.

[waldo]

Incorrect.

We started taking prisoners right from the start and it was raised in the Commons...afterwards the liberals changed the policy of handing prisoners over to the US and instead gave them to the Afghans.

All this well before the Conservatives were in power.

we're not talking about the early years and circumstances where prisoners were handed directly over to the U.S. - are we? Aren't we talking about the actual detainee agreement with Afghanistan, as signed by Hillier... and Karzai? The agreement that effectively deployed during the transition of governments, Liberal to Conservative?

[M.Dancer]

So? This is more of the same, "well if the Liberals did it, it must be alright." It isn't! I don't care who did it, this is a national disgrace.

What is a disgrace? Taking prisoners?

You are aware of the alternatives?

[nicky10013]

I'm sorry? You want me to refute that killing prisoners is our standard operating procedure? Is that the point in question?

Yes tinfoil is my common response to bone numbing stupidity.

Which prisoners have the taliban killed. You proved yourself wrong that the taliban had taken only one other prisoner. They do torture, which is what Canada is now complicit in. Is that the bone numbing stupidit you're talking about? The only thing I see is someone talking out both sides of his mouth who has no idea what they're talking about.

[Mr.Canada]

we're not talking about the early years and circumstances where prisoners were handed directly over to the U.S. - are we? Aren't we talking about the actual detainee agreement with Afghanistan, as signed by Hillier... and Karzai? The agreement that effectively deployed during the transition of governments, Liberal to Conservative?

I don't believe in giving quarter as we do nowadays. We should just kill them in the battlefield. None of this would be an issue if they were just killed in battle.

[nicky10013]

What is a disgrace? Taking prisoners?

You are aware of the alternatives?

Yes, the alternatives could be instead of handing them over to the Afghans who we KNOW torture, or we could detain them ourselves. Easy solution. You've got a better one?

[waldo]

But but but the Liberals...This sort of apology is particularly disgusting.

We're talking about CANADA. CANADA is alleged to have acted no better than it's so-called enemies. Are you okay with that?

which, of course, is the real issue/concern here... regardless of which respective governments were involved at what points over time.

[M.Dancer]

we're not talking about the early years and circumstances where prisoners were handed directly over to the U.S. - are we? Aren't we talking about the actual detainee agreement with Afghanistan, as signed by Hillier... and Karzai? The agreement that effectively deployed during the transition of governments, Liberal to Conservative?

Yes, the one that was authored by the Liberals after they felt sad about turning prisoners over to the US, who may end up in the carribean paradise...

[nicky10013]

I don't believe in giving quarter as we do nowadays. We should just kill them in the battlefield. None of this would be an issue if they were just killed in battle.

Hitler would like you.

[M.Dancer]

Which prisoners have the taliban killed.

You're serious?

You proved yourself wrong that the taliban had taken only one other prisoner.

No I proved you wrong. you claimed that:

They've taken quite a few Americans that have turned up alive.

So far, none have turned up alive.

They do torture, which is what Canada is now complicit in.

Nonsense. There is no complicity

Is that the bone numbing stupidit you're talking about?

BINGO!

The only thing I see is someone talking out both sides of his mouth who has no idea what they're talking about.

Hmmmm....still waiting for proof about the title ...speaking of knowing what we are talking about.