Is it time Federalize/Nationalize Minimum Wage?

[ToadBrother]

Clearly the measure for people at the bottom should not be whether they can become millionaires but whether they can get out of poverty.

I would agree. Which would make the numbers provided in this thread worthless.

All someone needs to get out of poverty is a job, any job, even a minimum wage job.

A minimum wage job would probably keep a single person living on their own above the poverty line, providing it was full-time, but a minimum wage job won't keep someone raising a kid above the poverty line.

Reduced taxation stimulates business, creating more jobs, thus bringing more people up out of poverty.

If that were the case, BC should have seen solid decreases over the last nine years in child poverty levels. It hasn't. That suggests that your simplistic formula does not adequately explain the situation.

[Bonam]

I would agree. Which would make the numbers provided in this thread worthless.

They were relevant to the subject that was being discussed before. Just because they do not apply to what you now want to talk about does not make them worthless.

A minimum wage job would probably keep a single person living on their own above the poverty line, providing it was full-time, but a minimum wage job won't keep someone raising a kid above the poverty line.

Probably? A minimum wage job will not only let a frugal single person live comfortably but also allow them to save a considerable amount. As for raising a kid, where is the second parent? Single parents are a social problem, not an economic one. Furthermore once one has a job, there are plenty of opportunities to progress to higher paying jobs.

If that were the case, BC should have seen solid decreases over the last nine years in child poverty levels. It hasn't. That suggests that your simplistic formula does not adequately explain the situation.

Care to bring some numbers? Also children are not the ones that get jobs. It is the adults that do. So how about some data on general poverty? Oh and filter out the druggies on the downtown east side when presenting your data (again, social problem, not economic).

Edited February 26, 2010 by Bonam

[Smallc]

A minimum wage job will not only let a frugal single person live comfortably but also allow them to save a considerable amount.

You have to be joking.

[ToadBrother]

They were relevant to the subject that was being discussed before. Just because they do not apply to what you now want to talk about does not make them worthless.

It seems quite relevant to me.

Probably? A minimum wage job will not only let a frugal single person live comfortably but also allow them to save a considerable amount.

On one planet? Certainly not one around here. Minimum wage jobs allow kids living at home to save money. It sure the hell wouldn't let a guy living in, say, Montreal or Vancouver.

As for raising a kid, where is the second parent? Single parents are a social problem, not an economic one.

It may be a social problem, but one with distinct economic factors. To my mind, you can't really separate social and economic issues anyways.

Care to bring some numbers? Also children are not the ones that get jobs. It is the adults that do. So how about some data on general poverty? Oh and filter out the druggies on the downtown east side when presenting your data (again, social problem, not economic).

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/24/bc-child-poverty-report.html

[Bonam]

You have to be joking.

No. I live on less than what minimum wage would earn me now as a PhD student, I have my own apartment, a new car, live comfortably, and put away a few hundred a month.

[Bonam]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/24/bc-child-poverty-report.html

Your report states that the child poverty rate in BC is higher than the Canadian average. This has nothing to do with the point I made. The point I made was that as taxes are decreased, poverty will fall. This is confirmed in the report:

B.C. had fewer children living in poverty in 2007 than it had in 2006

Edited February 26, 2010 by Bonam

[ToadBrother]

No. I live on less than what minimum wage would earn me now as a PhD student, I have my own apartment, a new car, live comfortably, and put away a few hundred a month.

What is your average take home pay per month before bills? I'm extraoardinarily dubious of your claim, which looks a lot like Mr. Canada's "I was a street crawling jail bird and now I'm rich" kind of claim.

[Smallc]

How? Between school debt, my car, what I'm paying my parents (money they had lent me that I told them I'd pay back) rent, etc, I spend $1250 every month without buying anything.

[ToadBrother]

Your report states that the child poverty rate in BC is higher than the Canadian average. This has nothing to do with the point I made. The point I made was that as taxes are decreased, poverty will fall. This is confirmed in the report.

BC has some of the lowest income and business taxes in Canada. Why is it still the worst?

[Michael Hardner]

What is your average take home pay per month before bills? I'm extraoardinarily dubious of your claim, which looks a lot like Mr. Canada's "I was a street crawling jail bird and now I'm rich" kind of claim.

Right.

Let's see:

I have my own apartment, a new car, live comfortably, and put away a few hundred a month.

Apartment would be $500/month minimum in Toronto. A new car at 0% financing is about $300. Food and day-to-day living maybe $350/month.

The income calculator tells me our example would bring home $200/week after deductions, or about $800 a month.

[Bonam]

How? Between school debt, my car, what I'm paying my parents (money they had lent me that I told them I'd pay back) rent, etc, I spend $1250 every month without buying anything.

$1250/month is less than minimum wage, so you should be saving Also in my case I have no debts to pay off (payed them off while in school).

[Bonam]

BC has some of the lowest income and business taxes in Canada. Why is it still the worst?

The unique phenomenon of the downtown east side in Vancouver skews things quite a bit I'd imagine.

[Bonam]

Apartment would be $500/month minimum in Toronto. A new car at 0% financing is about $300. Food and day-to-day living maybe $350/month.

The income calculator tells me our example would bring home $200/week after deductions, or about $800 a month.

Your income calculator is wrong. Minimum wage in Ontario is $9.50/hour. 40 hours per week = $380 per week. An average month is 4.3 weeks, that's $1634/month at minimum wage. Deductions are minimal when earning minimum wage, and you get them all back except EI on your tax return yearly.

[Michael Hardner]

Your income calculator is wrong. Minimum wage in Ontario is $9.50/hour. 40 hours per week = $380 per week. An average month is 4.3 weeks, that's $1634/month at minimum wage. Deductions are minimal when earning minimum wage, and you get them all back except EI on your tax return yearly.

My calculations were based on the Government of Canada income tax calculator. If you get the money back, then you have to borrow until that happens right ?

Or did you save up all of your money for 5 years to buy that car ?

[Bonam]

My calculations were based on the Government of Canada income tax calculator. If you get the money back, then you have to borrow until that happens right ?

Or did you save up all of your money for 5 years to buy that car ?

Got a link to this calculator?

Look you are not getting taxed at ~50% when earning minimum wage dude. Your gross monthly salary on minimum wage (in Ontario) is ~1600 as I said above. Net after all tax/cpp/ei deductions might be around 1500, not 800.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Bonam

[DogOnPorch]

$1250/month is less than minimum wage, so you should be saving Also in my case I have no debts to pay off (payed them off while in school).

Being debt free is the key in this day and age. The average is apparently $90,000 buckeroos a head. Amazing.

[Oleg Bach]

AMERICA and now Canada takes up the mantra that competition brings out the best in people. This is a lie- for for the most contest and contention bring out the worst- as we see the end results that emerges from America- it is not a pretty picture- we do not need to compete for who can get the cheapest slaves...eventually our own country men are sold to the lowest bidder...competition is for the power hungry and emotionally insecure twits that seek greatness at the belittlement of all others- I know I am the best- I do not need to compete- nor does a nation.

[Bonam]

AMERICA and now Canada takes up the mantra that competition brings out the best in people. This is a lie- for for the most contest and contention bring out the worst- as we see the end results that emerges from America

What? America shows just the opposite. By "taking up this mantra", America advanced from a few insignificant colonies to the world's leading superpower in a short time of just 200 years. The "mantra of competition" and free enterprise has brought about the greatest advances in technology, longevity, and standards of living.

[Smallc]

$1250/month is less than minimum wage, so you should be saving Also in my case I have no debts to pay off (payed them off while in school).

That's before I've moved or eaten.

[Bonam]

That's before I've moved or eaten.

Add $300 a month for food. Movement is free (get a bike). Once your debts are payed off you'll be saving.

[Smallc]

Add $300 a month for food. Movement is free (get a bike). Once your debts are payed off you'll be saving.

Well, I make almost triple minimum wage, so I am saving now. My point is, I would have trouble saving very much at all with much less than I'm making.

[Bonam]

Well, I make almost triple minimum wage, so I am saving now. My point is, I would have trouble saving very much at all with much less than I'm making.

To each his own. I was recounting my own experience, and if it's possible I'm certainly not the only one who can do it. Perhaps it helps that I don't blow hundreds of dollars on alcohol every month as do most other people my age.

[Smallc]

I've never drank a singe time in my life, and I don't smoke.

[Bonam]

I've never drank a singe time in my life, and I don't smoke.

Yeah, wasn't saying anything about you. I was just making a general observation.

[ToadBrother]

Add $300 a month for food. Movement is free (get a bike). Once your debts are payed off you'll be saving.

I'm extraordinarily dubious that anyone on minimum wage is going to be saving very much money at all. The $500 figure you give is extremely optimistic for any major urban area in North America (Vancouver, as I recall, is something like $700-$800, unless you want to be living with the hookers and drug dealers). I could see it as more likely that minimum wage could put you in a situation where you could save with, say, a room mate, which is how a lot of the people I know who have lived on minimum wage have lived.