In Defense of Iran

[M.Dancer]

Yup that's what I said alright.

Now how could that possibly be translated as meaning we fought WW2 so we could get into bed with the Soviets?

Well if you said it, they're stupid.

Who was more to defeat us in 1941 on? The Soviet union or the Axis?

Once the QAxis attack the USSR, we were in bed with the Soviets whether we liked it or not.

[eyeball]

I'm a revisionist and a liar as I pointed out.

[eyeball]

Well if you said it, they're stupid.

Who was more to defeat us in 1941 on? The Soviet union or the Axis?

Once the QAxis attack the USSR, we were in bed with the Soviets whether we liked it or not.

So we had no choice, it wasn't our fault and we should cut the West some slack for everything it's done?

[DogOnPorch]

My quote was: You're a revisionist and a liar. But if changing my quotes is all you have left, have at 'er.

Well if you said it, they're stupid.

Who was more to defeat us in 1941 on? The Soviet union or the Axis?

Once the QAxis attack the USSR, we were in bed with the Soviets whether we liked it or not.

Remember, eyeball equates D-Day with super-rogues interfering with the domestic workings of Nazi Germany.

[eyeball]

My quote was: You're a revisionist and a liar. But if changing my quotes is all you have left, have at 'er.

At least you seem to know a quote changer when you see one.

[DogOnPorch]

As mentioned, if that's all you have left, have at it.

[eyeball]

As mentioned, if that's all you have left, have at it.

Given you're so impervious to facts there's really not much else one can do is there?

[M.Dancer]

So we had no choice, it wasn't our fault and we should cut the West some slack for everything it's done?

You think we had a choice? Should we have allowed, for sake of argument, the axis to gain access to the Soviet oilfileds?

Edited February 24, 2010 by M.Dancer

[eyeball]

You think we had a choice? Should we have allowed, for sake of argument, the axis to gain access to the Soviet oilfileds?

Of course we had a choice. Nobody forced their will upon us.

In any case why should the world cut the West any slack for behaving this way?

[M.Dancer]

Of course we had a choice. Nobody forced their will upon us.

So you would have been okay with the Nazis winning the war then, right.

Would their posterity have cut you some slack for your suicide? Or perhaps you think that instead of 6 years of war, we might have won in 12....

[maple_leafs182]

I'm pretty sure this thread has gone a little off topic.

[eyeball]

So you would have been okay with the Nazis winning the war then, right.

There you go again...putting words in my mouth.

Would their posterity have cut you some slack for your suicide?

You've said some pretty nasty things to people who answer your questions with a question.

Or perhaps you think that instead of 6 years of war, we might have won in 12....

I think if Europe had simply been left to the Europeans back in WW1 there's a good chance WW2 never would have happened, nor the Cold War or the War on Terror that followed.

We did have choices so why should the West expect the world to cut it any slack now for having made them?

[bush_cheney2004]

....I think if Europe had simply been left to the Europeans back in WW1 there's a good chance WW2 never would have happened, nor the Cold War or the War on Terror that followed.

Sure...never mind the goals of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy....no big deal, right?

We did have choices so why should the West expect the world to cut it any slack now for having made them?

What slack...it's just a series of more choices....choose well, comrade.

[maple_leafs182]

What slack...it's just a series of more choices....choose well, comrade.

who gets to make the choices.

[M.Dancer]

There you go again...putting words in my mouth.

It called a logical progression. You say we had a choice...one choice led to the end of the war in europe....the other choice would have possibly led to a Nazi victory or a much longer, bloodier war. Which one are you okay with?

You've said some pretty nasty things to people who answer your questions with a question.

It's a relevant question.

I think if Europe had simply been left to the Europeans back in WW1 there's a good chance WW2 never would have happened, nor the Cold War or the War on Terror that followed.

Yes of course, Germany would have won on both fronts and the Turkish empire would have still existed....barring that the war would have gone on and on and on.

We did have choices so why should the West expect the world to cut it any slack now for having made them?

No one in the west is asking for forgiveness for defeating the Axis...well, you maybe...

[M.Dancer]

Sure...never mind the goals of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy....no big deal, right?

Or the goals of the Ottoman Empire...

[DogOnPorch]

BC-2004: Sure...never mind the goals of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy....no big deal, right?

As mentioned, eyeball thinks D-Day was the evil Anglo-Americans 'diddling' in the peaceful policies going on in the Third Reich. Naturally...it was America that declared war on peace-loving Nazi Germany...at least if we bother paying too much attention to revisionists such as this waste of bandwidth.

[bush_cheney2004]

As mentioned, eyeball thinks D-Day was the evil Anglo-Americans 'diddling' in the peaceful policies going on in the Third Reich. Naturally...it was America that declared war on peace-loving Nazi Germany...at least if we bother paying too much attention to revisionists such as this waste of bandwidth.

No matter...their walk does not match their talk, as they choose to live and thrive in the "immoral West".

[eyeball]

No one in the west is asking for forgiveness for defeating the Axis...well, you maybe...

I've never tried to justify things like Dresden or Hiroshima but I'm pretty certain you will.

It begs the question though, why are you so proud of everything the West did to defeat the communists?

[Bonam]

I've never tried to justify things like Dresden or Hiroshima but I'm pretty certain you will.

It begs the question though, why are you so proud of everything the West did to defeat the communists?

Because it was necessary. And because it helped not only the people of the West but also the people suffering under the oppression of communism.

[DogOnPorch]

Because it was necessary. And because it helped not only the people of the West but also the people suffering under the oppression of communism.

Allied-Soviet relations broke down very quickly post-WW2. A marriage of convenience if there ever was one. Stalin began fortifying the Soviet sector of Berlin and started denying other Allies entry. All the while looting and pillaging like there was no tomorrow. This combative attitude soon enough grew into the Berlin Crisis.

Leon Uris's fabulous book Armageddon: A Novel of Berlin details this period in detail. If you've never picked it up...give 'er a go.

[eyeball]

Allied-Soviet relations broke down very quickly post-WW2. A marriage of convenience if there ever was one. Stalin began fortifying the Soviet sector of Berlin and started denying other Allies entry. All the while looting and pillaging like there was no tomorrow. This combative attitude soon enough grew into the Berlin Crisis.

That was our first clue that climbing into bed with one dictator to defeat another was a dumb idea. But as things progressed into the Cold War and on into the War on Terror we willfully and in full knowledge of what we were doing kept making the same stupid mistake.

And we're supposed to be proud of that?

[DogOnPorch]

That was our first clue that climbing into bed with one dictator to defeat another was a dumb idea. But as things progressed into the Cold War and on into the War on Terror we willfully and in full knowledge of what we were doing kept making the same stupid mistake.

And we're supposed to be proud of that?

Hardly, revisionist. You might want to look up this obscure historical figure from the period and evaluate his feelings re: Communism and Stalin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

[M.Dancer]

It begs the question though, why are you so proud of everything the West did to defeat the communists?

That's a question best asked to the people of Estonia, Lativia, Lithuania, Poland Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Bugaria, Georgia, Moldova, Armenia etc, et al.

Ask then if the defeat of communism happened quick enough...

[eyeball]

Because it was necessary. And because it helped not only the people of the West but also the people suffering under the oppression of communism.

Now what do we tell the people that suffered under the oppression of the dictators that we backed to defeat the communists, tell them to keep on taking it for the Gipper and be patient your turn is coming?

By the way there's still lots of people suffering under the oppression of communist allies we have in the WOT - the same WOT we waging against the more radical allies that turned against us after defeating communists for us.

However necessary or logical the progression from WW1 and 2 on through to the Cold War and today's WOT looks to the West it remains a deeply immoral progression to the vast numbers of people who are still being oppressed by the dictators we ally ourselves with.

And I'm supposed to be proud of how the West is/has dealt with all the enemies it's had and still has to this day.