Top Taliban captured in Pakistan

[eyeball]

To repeat my question, where does it say Pakistan is using electrodes on him?

The opening post, and in the hopes and wishes articulated throughout the thread.

And your doubt is based on what, exactly?

An understanding of the nature of blow back.

Have you ever used a blowtorch in corner?

[Oleg Bach]

The opening post, and in the hopes and wishes articulated throughout the thread.

An understanding of the nature of blow back.

Have you ever used a blowtorch in corner?

OR looked inside with your eye to see if it is still lit....there would be no blow back if the politicals did not announce this capture for political gain and public loss......they should have kept their mouths shut and took care of buisness rather than show off at how great a job they are doing.

[eyeball]

Everything else is a giant American plot to the likes of you.

I've clearly and repeatedly gone to pains to include the West in the plot. Are you saying I should exclude the U.S.?

Why not the Moon Landings and say...9-11?

Why would I deny reality? You're not making any sense so please get a grip.

So...the Moon Landings...were they faked by the evil US government to dupe the masses into believing in America's greatness or not?

They weren't faked but yeah there is no doubt the space race including to the moon, was intended to establish American and of course the West's technical superiority.

In the race for moral superiority however much of the West has obviously hit the wall and is floundering about in the pack with the rest of the losers.

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman, on 17 February 2010 - 11:40 AM, said: To repeat my question, where does it say Pakistan is using electrodes on him?

The opening post, and in the hopes and wishes articulated throughout the thread.

So there are no reports that it's happening, yet you've already assigned some serious guilt to Pakistan and to us.

And your doubt is based on what, exactly?

An understanding of the nature of blow back.

Have you ever used a blowtorch in corner?

In other words, it's not based in any way on actual facts regarding the situation.

[Oleg Bach]

Pakistan has always played both sides of the fence- materially they are with the Americans- Idealogically they are with the Taliban and similar groups. You can not have your cake and eat it too. Taking aid from AMERICA and at the same side supporting groups against America...now the chicken has come to roost.

[eyeball]

So there are no reports that it's happening, yet you've already assigned some serious guilt to Pakistan and to us.

That's not too hard to do when so many of us are hoping the Pakistanis will go right to the electrodes. That's no less despicable than cheering and singing "Bullseye" on 9/11. Look at how much serious guilt that caused people to assign to just about a 1/5th of the entire human race.

In other words, it's not based in any way on actual facts regarding the situation.

That's right, it's based on an analogy like I said.

I suspect the producers of the intelligence brief that captured and conveyed a real life sense that people could easily understand with the term blow back had probably used a blowtorch at least a few times in their lives. Hopefully not on a person.

[Oleg Bach]

A little fire and water boarding seems to have saved the world so they say... We will never achieve sustainable success if we show the supposed barbarians that we can our barbarian them.

[Guest American Woman]

So there are no reports that it's happening, yet you've already assigned some serious guilt to Pakistan and to us.

That's not too hard to do when so many of us are hoping the Pakistanis will go right to the electrodes.

I see. Because some people on a web board are advocating it, you assign guilt to others, and you think that's just fine. Nice ethics.

That's no less despicable than cheering and singing "Bullseye" on 9/11. Look at how much serious guilt that caused people to assign to just about a 1/5th of the entire human race.

So cheering on the deliberate, pre-meditated well-thought out murder of an innocent four year old is no less despicable than cheering on the use of electrodes on a man who has purposely done terrible things to others.

Unbelievable.

I no more advocate the use of torture than you do, but my thoughts aren't so biased/one-sided as to think everything is on the same scale. The world isn't black or white and every wrong that's committed isn't 'just as wrong' as every other wrong just because they are all wrong. It's not that simple.

(This is where you tell me that you don't believe I think torture is wrong ).

That's right, it's based on an analogy like I said.

I suspect the producers of the intelligence brief that captured and conveyed a real life sense that people could easily understand with the term blow back had probably used a blowtorch at least a few times in their lives.

I suspect they also have knowledge of the situation, and their assessment is based on more than an analogy.

Hopefully not on a person.

I'm sure they have. They're evil westerners, after all.

[Oleg Bach]

The west is not evil- we just do evil things on occasion and switch back to good hoping no one noticed.

[eyeball]

I see. Because some people on a web board are advocating it, you assign guilt to others, and you think that's just fine. Nice ethics.

Have you ever heard of the practice of extraordinary rendition? The fact our governments have advocated torture by proxy long before this capture by the ISA speaks volumes to the appropriateness of assigning guilt.

[eyeball]

So cheering on the deliberate, pre-meditated well-thought out murder of an innocent four year old is no less despicable than cheering on the use of electrodes on a man who has purposely done terrible things to others.

Excuse me but what four year old are you babbling about?

[eyeball]

(This is where you tell me that you don't believe I think torture is wrong ).

I've pretty much given up trying to figure out what you're thinking or believe.

[Guest American Woman]

babbling

Thank you for confirming that you're not worth my time.

Have a great 'holier than thou' life.

[eyeball]

Thank you for confirming that you're not worth my time.

Have a great 'holier than thou' life.

Yup smell ya later.

[Michael Hardner]

Being that I'm neither Conservative nor 'right-wing' it isn't terribly accurate. Please don't do it again. DOP or DogOnPorch will do.

I will try not to, and my apologies for any slight.

Fire-bombing Japanese cities during WW2 is pretty 'antithetical' in itself.

War isn't anithetical to the west. The practice of targeting civilians, which today seems to mark one group or the other as terrorist, was accepted in WW2. So that's one of those values that has changed with time.

As for supporting dictators who kill their own citizens because they want freedom, that seems alien to our values.

I wonder if the American hostages being bargained for during the Iran-Contra Affair thought America's actions 'right' or 'wrong'? I'm not sure if history records their opinions. But I think it does show that 'right' and 'wrong' are relative to one's POV. The Phoenix Program during Viet-Nam was viewed with public distaste, as well. But, it was also one of the few things that actually worked against NVA and VC terrorists operating in South Viet-Nam.

Of course right and wrong are relative to one's POV. Relative to most peoples' POV, and the stated arguments against terrorists and rogue states, and to almost everyone's values today the actions of the torch bearers for democracy, just 20 or 30 years ago, is embarassing.

Was I responding to you? You haven't reached the lofty wingnut-conspircy-theorist level that eyeball has achieved. When you do, I'll post you some funny pictures for you, as well.

I thought you were. Always like the funny pics, especially if it saves me reading.

[bloodyminded]

I wonder if the American hostages being bargained for during the Iran-Contra Affair thought America's actions 'right' or 'wrong'? I'm not sure if history records their opinions. But I think it does show that 'right' and 'wrong' are relative to one's POV. The Phoenix Program during Viet-Nam was viewed with public distaste, as well. But, it was also one of the few things that actually worked against NVA and VC terrorists operating in South Viet-Nam.

When the Contra terror wars were mentioned, it wasn't specifically about the Iran-Contra affair or the hostages. It was the Contra terrorists in Nicaragua, which obviously predates the hostage situation.

You see, the Contras' mass rapes, murders, kidnappings and tortures were not committed in the name of American hostages.

[DogOnPorch]

When the Contra terror wars were mentioned, it wasn't specifically about the Iran-Contra affair or the hostages. It was the Contra terrorists in Nicaragua, which obviously predates the hostage situation.

You see, the Contras' mass rapes, murders, kidnappings and tortures were not committed in the name of American hostages.

Nor were Contras under direct American control. It's not like some USMC officer said...

Go rape some nuns.

[bloodyminded]

Nor were Contras under direct American control. It's not like some USMC officer said...

No. But they were armed, funded, and often trained by the US. And their crimes were given much diplomatic secrecy in the West.

That's culpability.

[DogOnPorch]

No. But they were armed, funded, and often trained by the US. And their crimes were given much diplomatic secrecy in the West.

That's culpability.

No it isn't. Nor were Contras trained by the US...unless you call the Freedom Fighter's Handbook 'training'. These bozos were already in the bush fighting the Sandinistas. On this end of the Affair, it was all about getting the Contras weapons to match those being dished out by the Russians and Cubans.

This is more or less just hand-wringing...the Sandinistas were just as rotten a pack of barbarians as the Contras.

[bloodyminded]

No it isn't. Nor were Contras trained by the US...unless you call the Freedom Fighter's Handbook 'training'.

And the School of the Americas (since renamed).

Don't tell me you don't know any of this; or stop pretending to knowledge you don't have.

These bozos were already in the bush fighting the Sandinistas. On this end of the Affair, it was all about getting the Contras weapons to match those being dished out by the Russians and Cubans.

Terrorists, DoP. Rapists. Torturers. Kidnappers.

This is more or less just hand-wringing...the Sandinistas were just as rotten a pack of barbarians as the Contras.

Rotten they were, though they didn't match Contra atrocity. Not even close.

As for "hand-wringing"--what you mean, quite explicitly, is that we should all stop focussing on Western crimes and gaze with fixity upon the crimes of enemies only.

You know, the direct opposite of all moral philosophy and univerally-understood ethics.

Talking about our own crimes is merely "hand-wringing."

Edited February 18, 2010 by bloodyminded

[DogOnPorch]

And the School of the Americas (since renamed).

Don't tell me you don't know any of this; or stop pretending to knowledge you don't have.

Terrorists, DoP. Rapists. Torturers. Kidnappers.

Rotten they were, though they didn't match Contra atrocity. Not even close.

As for "hand-wringing"--what you mean, quite explicitly, is that we should all stop focussing on Western crimes and gaze with fixity upon the crimes of enemies only.

You know, the direct opposite of all moral philosophy and univerally-understood ethics.

Talking about our own crimes is merely "hand-wringing."

The Freedom Fighter's Handbook is from The School of the Americas. Other than that I have no knowledge of Contras actually attending the so-called school. The closest would be Luis Posada, but he was actually a Cuban CIA man rather than a Contra.

[bloodyminded]

The Freedom Fighter's Handbook is from The School of the Americas. Other than that I have no knowledge of Contras actually attending the so-called school. The closest would be Luis Posada, but he was actually a Cuban CIA man rather than a Contra.

But you're not denying US culpability in the Cointra terror?

[DogOnPorch]

But you're not denying US culpability in the Cointra terror?

But you're not denying Soviet/Cuban culpability in the Sandinista terror?

Edited February 18, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[bloodyminded]

But you're not denying Soviet/Cuban culpability in the Sandinista terror?

Since they were allies with Cuba, and received arms from the Soviets, I consider it a fair assumption.

I'm not the one making denials based on ideological obedience. You are.

[sharkman]

When it comes to the left, DOP, every topic comes around to either Israel or the West being evil. As certain as death and taxes.