Global Warming backdown

[Keepitsimple]

of course... even though the reviews have been independent and transparent.

[waldo]

of course... even though the reviews have been independent and transparent, they don't bring forward anything to support your denier life-breath. 3 out 4 Shady... one pending, in the pipe!

really Simple... 5 lol worth? Yes, the repeated rejections of what was your holy-grail Hackergate non-scandal, is certainly a tough pill to swallow for even the most fervent denier. We could have some fun here, Simple - you could really extend yourself beyond a minimalist 5 lol comeback... and actually challenge the independence and transparency of those respective Hackergate inquiries. Of course, we have a dedicated long-standing MLW Hackergate thread just waiting for you Simple. Many have already tried to challenge the independence and transparency of the respective inquiries, Simple - it should be a simple cut/paste effort for you... have at er!

[waldo]

You know it seems impossible to distance government, be it the UN or any national government you care to mention from the science. Much like you can't distance government from big oil. It's all tied together, Waldo. Government get's a large percentage of it's revenues from oil. Yet you don't make the connection between governing bodies and big oil. I would think you would have made the connection and realize it is protecting it's depleting resources while looking for new sources of revenue.

I hate to be the one telling you of your actual support of big oil corporations but it's about time you learned the truth and realized you have been duped into being a true believer.

I'm surprised,Waldo. You haven't made the connection between big government and big oil? You always seem to discredit sources with any link to big oil. Do you think you are being selective by ignoring it?

Pliny, you obviously have something to say... what's holding you back from connecting all the dots? Are there any governments that aren't "in on it", Pliny? Any governments... any? Where do, for example, "Big Wind", "Big Solar", "Big Nuclear" - and "Big Sustainable Energy" fit in? Don't forget about "Big Enviro", hey Pliny? Don't forget about the move to a global world government, Pliny... don't forget about that - hey? Of course, Pliny, don't forget about the piece de resistance... don't forget about AGW climate change and climate scientists - don't forget to link them in when you connect all the dots between all your players. And please Pliny, please... make sure to include exactly where you and your staunch last line of denier defense fits into it all?

[waldo]

It's the priests and the Pope's you have to be wary of. You are a layman with an irrefutable conviction who is on a witchhunt for heretics and heathens that don't simply bow to the scriptures of the chosen and anointed Prophets.

let's see, Pliny... you've hit upon, "priests... Pope's... witchhunt... heretics... heathens... scriptures... anointed... Prophets"!!!

did my calling out your denial faith touch a nerve? I would be most interested in your theological musings as to who holds those positions - name the names! Just who are the Pope's, who are the priests... who are the anointed Prophets? Damnit, we need names... name the names, Pliny. Name the names! Surely, we can only evaluate the depth of penetration of "the movement", if we have your names. Unleash the names, Pliny. Unleash the names!

I imagine like your poster child Pope Gore, you have pictures on all your walls.

Here's a good name for you - Maurice Strong, whom you will find, I'm certain, is a wonderful man. Put him on your list. Tack up his picture next to Pope Al's as the Canadian Arch-bishop.

it's always an interesting tangent to speculate on just where the latest talking points originate within the denialsphere... like I said, very few people even recognize the name Maurice Strong and who he is. Just where did Pliny get his latest talking point reference - inquiring minds need to know!

Glenn Beck holds up Maurice Strong as evidence of 'global government' conspiracy ...hey, Pliny... the Guardian UK writer covered off both your named names in his closing comment!

Personally, I know very little about the history, ideology and motives of Maurice Strong – he may well be one of the four horseman of the apocalypse for all I know - but it strikes me that his critics should at least hear what he has to say in his defence. But, then again, that might elicit an inconvenient truth, as their other leading bogey man would say.

[Pliny]

it's always an interesting tangent to speculate on just where the latest talking points originate within the denialsphere... like I said, very few people even recognize the name Maurice Strong and who he is. Just where did Pliny get his latest talking point reference - inquiring minds need to know!

Glenn Beck holds up Maurice Strong as evidence of 'global government' conspiracy ...hey, Pliny... the Guardian UK writer covered off both your named names in his closing comment!

Never saw that on Glenn Beck, don't watch much but it's good to see he's up on things. And good to see you're watching!

[Pliny]

Pliny, you obviously have something to say... what's holding you back from connecting all the dots? Are there any governments that aren't "in on it", Pliny? Any governments... any?

Yep!

Where do, for example, "Big Wind", "Big Solar", "Big Nuclear" - and "Big Sustainable Energy" fit in? Don't forget about "Big Enviro", hey Pliny?

All supported by big oil and government, of course. Nothing is better than oil. Wind and Solar prove that. We needs oil, Waldo.

Don't forget about the move to a global world government, Pliny... don't forget about that - hey? Of course, Pliny, don't forget about the piece de resistance... don't forget about AGW climate change and climate scientists - don't forget to link them in when you connect all the dots between all your players. And please Pliny, please... make sure to include exactly where you and your staunch last line of denier defense fits into it all?

Holy smoke and mirrors. Can't hold a candle to your denial. The true believer strikes back.

In all that's being said you picked a good name - Waldo. See if you can find Waldo, any bit of Waldo. Some kind of personality behind the true believer.

You have really outdone yourself of late - what's up? Things slow down at work for you? Or just trying to keep the topic current?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Pliny

[Keepitsimple]

Many have already tried to challenge the independence and transparency of the respective inquiries

[Shady]

even though the reviews have been independent and transparent.

(It actually deserves 6 of them waldo!)

Ahh, to be so naive and child-like. Reminds me of the days I believed in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Maybe we should ease up on waldo guys. He's obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[bush_cheney2004]

Waldo's switch to American so-called climate change references is due to the fact that EAU, and the IPCC have been so widely discredited.

That's what is so strange, as this entire global warming circle jerk can be traced to its popular false start going back to M.E. Mann, et al (I love typing "et al"...it has become the trademark of the AGW eggheads in their "literature").

Mann et al. also investigated the role of different hypothesized climate forcing mechanisms in influencing hemispheric temperatures through time. They conclude that variations in the sun,

volcanic eruptions

, and human-induced increases of greenhouses gases (CO2 in particular) all played a role in generating the observed patterns of climate change over the last 600 years. They also conclude that greenhouse gases were the dominant forcing during the 20th century.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/mann.html

[waldo]

It's the priests and the Pope's you have to be wary of. You are a layman with an irrefutable conviction who is on a witchhunt for heretics and heathens that don't simply bow to the scriptures of the chosen and anointed Prophets.

let's see, Pliny... you've hit upon, "priests... Pope's... witchhunt... heretics... heathens... scriptures... anointed... Prophets"!!!

did my calling out your denial faith touch a nerve? I would be most interested in your theological musings as to who holds those positions - name the names! Just who are the Pope's, who are the priests... who are the anointed Prophets? Damnit, we need names... name the names, Pliny. Name the names! Surely, we can only evaluate the depth of penetration of "the movement", if we have your names. Unleash the names, Pliny. Unleash the names!

I imagine like your poster child Pope Gore, you have pictures on all your walls.

Here's a good name for you - Maurice Strong, whom you will find, I'm certain, is a wonderful man. Put him on your list. Tack up his picture next to Pope Al's as the Canadian Arch-bishop.

it's always an interesting tangent to speculate on just where the latest talking points originate within the denialsphere... like I said, very few people even recognize the name Maurice Strong and who he is. Just where did Pliny get his latest talking point reference - inquiring minds need to know!

Glenn Beck holds up Maurice Strong as evidence of 'global government' conspiracy ...hey, Pliny... the Guardian UK writer covered off both your named names in his closing comment!

Never saw that on Glenn Beck, don't watch much but it's good to see he's up on things. And good to see you're watching!

ya, ya, Pliny... clearly Beck is one of your go-to guys! My only outlet/want to view Glenn Beck is when he comes under comedic parody - I trust you saw the recent John Stewart extended segment where Stewart absolutely eviscerated Beck... gold, real gold! But that's only a couple of names so far, Pliny... we need more of your names. So... what other names has Glenn Beck given you, Pliny?

[waldo]

Pliny, you obviously have something to say... what's holding you back from connecting all the dots? Are there any governments that aren't "in on it", Pliny? Any governments... any? Where do, for example, "Big Wind", "Big Solar", "Big Nuclear" - and "Big Sustainable Energy" fit in? Don't forget about "Big Enviro", hey Pliny? Don't forget about the move to a global world government, Pliny... don't forget about that - hey? Of course, Pliny, don't forget about the piece de resistance... don't forget about AGW climate change and climate scientists - don't forget to link them in when you connect all the dots between all your players. And please Pliny, please... make sure to include exactly where you and your staunch last line of denier defense fits into it all?

Yep! All supported by big oil and government, of course. Nothing is better than oil. Wind and Solar prove that. We needs oil, Waldo.

Holy smoke and mirrors. Can't hold a candle to your denial. The true believer strikes back.

Pliny! Don't deny yourself... don't deny this opportunity. Connect your dots Pliny - connect your dots. Just make sure you don't forget to include where you and the rest of your staunch last line of denier defense fits into it all - hey?

[waldo]

really Simple... 5 lol worth? Yes, the repeated rejections of what was your holy-grail Hackergate non-scandal, is certainly a tough pill to swallow for even the most fervent denier. We could have some fun here, Simple - you could really extend yourself beyond a minimalist 5 lol comeback... and actually challenge the independence and transparency of those respective Hackergate inquiries. Of course, we have a dedicated long-standing MLW Hackergate thread just waiting for you Simple. Many have already tried to challenge the independence and transparency of the respective inquiries, Simple - it should be a simple cut/paste effort for you... have at er!

Simple, I accept your unequivocal surrender in terms of your not being able to challenge or refute the independence and transparency of the respective... independent and transparent inquiries that have exonerated EAU/CRU.

[Oleg Bach]

Human waste in the atmosphere is a reality - we can no longer continue shiting in the sky. There was a time when industrialists believed that Lake Ontario was so vast that it could absorb and disapate dumped toxins..later they found out that the great lake had limitations in these regards..chemicals from the fifties are still traceable in our drinking water..eventually mankind will realize that the sky is not endless.

[Keepitsimple]

Simple, I accept your unequivocal surrender in terms of your not being able to challenge or refute the independence and transparency of the respective... independent and transparent inquiries that have exonerated EAU/CRU.

Waldo, you have got to be the world's most boring but predictable poster. Blah, blah, blah. Never use 5 words when 100 will do.

[Oleg Bach]

Waldo, you have got to be the world's most boring but predictable poster. Blah, blah, blah. Never use 5 words when 100 will do.

WALDO! ???? where is he and where is he coming from..his post was cryptic in the most pedestrian way.

[wyly]

Human waste in the atmosphere is a reality - we can no longer continue shiting in the sky. There was a time when industrialists believed that Lake Ontario was so vast that it could absorb and disapate dumped toxins..later they found out that the great lake had limitations in these regards..chemicals from the fifties are still traceable in our drinking water..eventually mankind will realize that the sky is not endless.

well the various space agencies are saying that about orbital space around the planet, there's so much junk flying about up there it's becoming hazardous to space travel...but now astronauts worry about paint chips hitting them...who would have though that possible 20 years ago...

[Keepitsimple]

Gotta love that Rex Murphy.....a rather blustery article - but one that continues to demonstrate the erosion of confidence that "the science is settled".

..........For if Mr. Ban chastised Stephen Harper for Canadas failings on Kyoto, it is but cricket for Mr. Harper to chastise Ban Ki-moon for the sloppiness, evasion and propagandistic aggressiveness of his functionaries on their most beloved file.

Did the conversation ever get round, I wonder, to our Prime Minister telling the UNs Secretary-General that perhaps, since Kyoto, confidence in the UNs version of the science, and in the ferocious, nay apocalyptic, projections from that science, has considerably declined? I would surely hope so.

For Canada signed Kyoto in a more innocent day, when few, or none, had either occasion or evidence to question the impartiality of those who were pushing a carbon Doomsday on the rest of us. Since that innocent day, much has changed. Advocacy has seduced science, and the loud voices of all-too-interested parties are crying up cap-and-trade schemes and reparations to developing countries from climate criminals. Western governments are being harried to vest vast sums into alternate technologies of little proven efficacy but of prodigiously proven cost. The West is being asked to handcuff its own growth and development, in the midst of a global recession, all under the banner of global warming.

Did either of them, Mr. Harper or Ban Ki-moon this is Canada, after all mention the infamous hockey stick global temperature graph the emblematic, erroneous logo of this whole desperate enterprise?

Mr. Harper will have done all of us, and the world, a great service if he raised these points, and suggested that the UNs ability to issue reprimands to anyone on this file has been greatly corroded in the last year.

The science of global warming needs a wholesale outside review. In fact, it needs to be taken out from under the umbrella of the United Nations and its process altogether. If some of this message was given by Mr. Harper to the UNs chief, the meeting will have been productive and, indeed, something of a joy to truth.

Link: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/05/15/rex-murphy-getting-lectured-by-ban-ki-moon.aspx

Edited May 15, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[waldo]

Gotta love that Rex Murphy.....a rather blustery article - but one that continues to demonstrate the erosion of confidence that "the science is settled".

well, of course you would favour the following ramblings of the out-of-touch, dinosaur denier, Rex Murphy:

-

Hackergate

=> Rex Murphy rambles over a non-issue; numerous independent & transparent exonerations spoiling the wet-dreams of deniers.

-

IPCC

=> Rex Murphy rambles over a couple of inconsequential statements within social-science based sub-group WG2 Report... no implications to physical science basis (WG1 Report), that supports the theory of AGW climate change... no implications to actual formal IPCC positions as stated within summation of sub-group reports (Synthesis Report)... no implications to summation for policymakers (Summary for PolicyMakers Report).

-

EAU/CRU

=> Rex Murphy repeats his previous rambling point... see previous Rex Murphy rambling Hackergate reference.

-

bristling ardency of climate scientists and spiteful defiance of the IPCC Chairman

=> Rex Murphy clearly showing his unbiased position (/snarc), apparently, Rex Murphy would prefer a quiet, reserved complacency by those who advocate for the theory of AGW climate change. Oh the audacity of their advocacy and push back against the deniers!

-

the "UN's version of the science"

=> again, Rex Murphy's rambling clearly shows his unbiased position (/snarc), the science... is the science - there is no "UN version of the science".

-

the Kyoto Protocol existed within the confines of innocence...

an innocence before Rex Murphy's brand of advocacy "seduced science"; an innocence before Rex Murphy's brand of cap-&-trade "schemers" => yes, clearly, Rex Murphy's brand of denier rails against the actual science and anyone that might choose to accept the actual science... might choose to advocate for the theory of AGW climate change. Yes, clearly, Rex Murphy's brand of denier rails against those who might foster possible/partial solutions towards any considerations for any level of reduced reliance on fossil fuels and related carbon emissions.

-

the "infamous" hockey stick the emblematic, erroneous logo of this whole desperate enterprise

=> the 'smoking gun' on Rex Murphy's biased dinosaur, denier position... the hockey-stick has never been broken and remains intact, repeated independent research had/has consistently validated temperature reconstructions. The salient point missed by denier dinosaurs is that, today, a decade+ after the original, the hockey-stick holds minimal significance and influence in terms of the overwhelming 'body of evidence' that supports the theory of AGW climate change.

Simple, is this the basis for you invoking your tired "science is settled" meme? Really?

[Pliny]

Human waste in the atmosphere is a reality - we can no longer continue shiting in the sky. There was a time when industrialists believed that Lake Ontario was so vast that it could absorb and disapate dumped toxins..later they found out that the great lake had limitations in these regards..chemicals from the fifties are still traceable in our drinking water..eventually mankind will realize that the sky is not endless.

No one is denying we need to clean up our act, Oleg. Who is wishing to live in an outhouse?

[Shady]

independent and transparent inquiries that have exonerated EAU/CRU.

How were they independent and transparent?

[Pliny]

ya, ya, Pliny... clearly Beck is one of your go-to guys! My only outlet/want to view Glenn Beck is when he comes under comedic parody - I trust you saw the recent John Stewart extended segment where Stewart absolutely eviscerated Beck... gold, real gold! But that's only a couple of names so far, Pliny... we need more of your names. So... what other names has Glenn Beck given you, Pliny?

I read about Maurice Strong years ago, Waldo. I'm more up on things than Glenn Beck. I have never seen a John Stewart show.

I have a few other names, Waldo. But you do some homework on Maurice.

[jbg]

well, of course you would favour the following ramblings of the out-of-touch, dinosaur denier, Rex Murphy:

Hackergate => Rex Murphy rambles over a non-issue; numerous independent & transparent exonerations spoiling the wet-dreams of deniers.

See definition of spoliation of evidence (link):

SPOLIATION

Destruction of a thing by the act of a stranger; as, the erasure or alteration of a writing by the act of a stranger, is called spoliation. This has not the effect to destroy its character or legal effect.

By spoliation is also understood the total destruction of a thing; as, the spoliation of papers, by the captured party, is generally regarded as proof of guilt, but in America it is open to explanation, except in certain cases where there is a vehement presumption of bad faith.

And if you don't like that definition try this one (link):

Dictionary: spo·li·a·tion (spō'lē-ā'shən)

n.

1.The act of despoiling or plundering.

2.Seizure of neutral vessels at sea by a belligerent power in time of war.

3.Law. Intentional alteration or destruction of a document.

This destruction of raw data by East Anglia in response to FOI requests is hardly a "non-issues". the decision was made not to allow other scientists to review raw data, but to make people take the IPC's word for their conclusions. Hardly harmless. Indeed tragic. It would be the equivalent of destruction of original Shakespeare manuscripts, if available.

- the "infamous" hockey stick the emblematic, erroneous logo of this whole desperate enterprise => the 'smoking gun' on Rex Murphy's biased dinosaur, denier position... the hockey-stick has never been broken and remains intact, repeated independent research had/has consistently validated temperature reconstructions. The salient point missed by denier dinosaurs is that, today, a decade+ after the original, the hockey-stick holds minimal significance and influence in terms of the overwhelming 'body of evidence' that supports the theory of AGW climate change.

Is the hockey stick what the Mapleleafs use in their innumerable Stanley Cup victories?

[waldo]

This destruction of raw data by East Anglia in response to FOI requests is hardly a "non-issues".

you've been asked to substantiate your claims over deleted data in the past... you've not done so when previously challenged... will you do so now? Your expressed confidence... nay, your blustering certainty (2 spoliation definitions worth of certainty), belies your failure and unwillingness to substantiate yourself.

the emails are all public, as are the FOI requests you reference to. Step up and state the email(s) in question and the associated FOI request(s)... specifically, to your claim that CRU/EAU destroyed raw data in response to FOI requests. More pointedly:

- which email(s)

- which FOI request(s)

- what raw data

support your case that will offer direct repudiation to the independent/transparent reviews that have exonerated CRU/EAU. Put up or STFU!

[Shady]

support your case that will offer direct repudiation to the independent/transparent reviews that have exonerated CRU/EAU.

I'll ask once again. How exactly were they independent and transparent?

[Keepitsimple]

you've been asked to substantiate your claims over deleted data in the past... you've not done so when previously challenged... will you do so now? Your expressed confidence... nay, your blustering certainty (2 spoliation definitions worth of certainty), belies your failure and unwillingness to substantiate yourself.

support your case that will offer direct repudiation to the independent/transparent reviews that have exonerated CRU/EAU. Put up or STFU!

Very clever Waldo - and stated with your usual eloquence. They did not destroy the data in response to FOI requests. It was a FOI request that forced the CRU to admit that they no longer had the original data. This is a perfect example of how you and your ilk will never, ever admit to anything being "questionable" in your Alice in Wonderland Alarmist world.

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”

Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece

Edited May 16, 2010 by Keepitsimple