Cyberwar is a reality now

[Michael Hardner]

He cant be for real. This guy is a spammer...

He's been on here for months, and behaving the same way. Usually the topic is why the "western powers" are the same as China because, effectively, we place some limited controls (i.e. laws) on people.

He's a shill for China, basically.

[ToadBrother]

He's been on here for months, and behaving the same way. Usually the topic is why the "western powers" are the same as China because, effectively, we place some limited controls (i.e. laws) on people.

He's a shill for China, basically.

It's their standard argument. "You invaded Tibet and suppress it's people" answer "You were bad to the Indians!". "You suppress free speech!" answer "Chretien and pepper spray!". "You won't allow free elections" answer "Western politics is corrupt, elections are for lusers!!!"

In short, they forgive the rafter in China's eye, while excusing any faults by pointing out the needles in ours.

It's like the current politically correct assessments of Mao. "Well, he made some mistakes, but all in all, he was good for China!" We're talking about a man who instituted an economic system that cost anywhere between 20 and 40 million people, due to famine. Chinese patriots minimize their own regimes mistakes and evils by misdirection and minimization. It's classic apologetics and rationalization. You saw the same thing after the French Revolution, where all kinds of horrific acts were committed by Revolutionaries. If there's a significant difference between China and the West, it's not that mistakes aren't made or vile acts committed, but that China tries to hide them and minimize them, while the West spends decades wringing its hands over every single thing. I mean, I watched a show just a few months ago that was still despairing the treatment of the poor in the mid-19th century!!!

Edited January 19, 2010 by ToadBrother

[bjre]

He's a shill for China, basically.

What kind of argument skill this belong to?

I am not a shill.

I am not sure if you are.

Even for a real shill, is he a human being? Can he has his own human right? Can he has his own idea? Do you have the capability to win in the argument?

Several months ago, I thought you were respectable although you have a different opinion with me. Now, you make me so disappoint.

No matter where comes the opinion, no matter if it is his real opinion or it was given, are you able to convince his opinion is wrong and yours is right with some real persuasive argument?

He's been on here for months, and behaving the same way. Usually the topic is why the "western powers" are the same as China because, effectively, we place some limited controls (i.e. laws) on people.

He's a shill for China, basically.

You are a liar, basically. Here is one of the examples that can be used as a proof:

You could not don't know things like this:

In Canada, 21 arrested at Tamil protest today in Toronto, when protesters attempted to push north on University Ave. past a barrie at Dundas St.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/626178

But you say:

The protesters has been there for months that makes people can not work, makes bus can not drive, if this happen in Canada, will the government involved with armed cops? BE HONEST, ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

No, they won't.

According to your own definition, I think maybe you are a shill:

A shill can have real opinions, but it's his job to state the opinions he was given.

Edited January 19, 2010 by bjre

[maple_leafs182]

Here is the G20 protests in Pittsburgh last year.

I guess we'll see how Canada handles the G20 protest in June when it comes to Toronto, I'll be there.

As for news, mainstream media is a joke, it is mainly propaganda and its main objective is to shape public opinion.

They tell us how to think and how to feel.

Edited January 19, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[Michael Hardner]

I guess we'll see how Canada handles the G20 protest in June when it comes to Toronto, I'll be there.

Excellent point. Let's see if Harper sends soldiers to kill them and then shuts down all press coverage of the event.

[Michael Hardner]

According to your own definition, I think maybe you are a shill:

I respect you, bjre, but I don't think you have grown enough to form your own opinion - therefore my comment. I don't wish to hurt your feelings, but I really have no use for zealots - religious or patriotic zealots either.

I wish you the best.

[bjre]

I respect you, bjre, but I don't think you have grown enough to form your own opinion - therefore my comment. I don't wish to hurt your feelings, but I really have no use for zealots - religious or patriotic zealots either.

I wish you the best.

Don't explain, remember this, each time you attack me in person, instead of on the opinion, you get hurt yourself. Be smart.

[Michael Hardner]

Don't explain, remember this, each time you attack me in person, instead of on the opinion, you get hurt yourself. Be smart.

I'm attacking your pattern of postings. If I attack one single post, it's not enough. I'm attacking the great number of posts you make on here to blindly support China in all matters.

[bjre]

I'm attacking your pattern of postings. If I attack one single post, it's not enough. I'm attacking the great number of posts you make on here to blindly support China in all matters.

Do you ever have just one post on the positive side of Chinese government?

I'm attacking the great number of posts you make on here

Not as many as yours.

to blindly support China.

Proof and cite please.

Besides,

Are you blind at the fact that most native people dead after 1400s?

Are you blind at thousands of kids dead in residential schools?

Are you blind at lots of kids die from suicide under the care of CAS.

Are you blind at lots of kids lost their parents in Canada?

Are you blind at lots of people die in hospital on preventable reasons?

Are you blind at lost of homeless stay in front of city hall everyday?

Are you blind one in every Canadian children are living in poverty?

You are so kind to care about China? If you are so kind, just donate something for Haiti, where care is in need now. Chinese rescue team arrived in Haiti first, 2 hours before US team, did you ever do something on that?

[Michael Hardner]

Do you ever have just one post on the positive side of Chinese government?

I have many good things to say about modern China. Chinese Communism brought stability and reduced starvation in a turbulent time. And China was smart enough to leave Communism behind when it had outlived its usefulness. They are the only Communist country to see the wisdom of giving up central planning, and allowing some capitalism, and saw the rewards in that. They need to take the next step, and allow for dissent, as it will improve things overall.

Proof and cite please.

See the insanely large blue text:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=15677&st=90&p=501433entry501433

Besides,

Are you blind at the fact that most native people dead after 1400s?

Are you blind at thousands of kids dead in residential schools?

Are you blind at lots of kids die from suicide under the care of CAS.

Are you blind at lots of kids lost their parents in Canada?

Are you blind at lots of people die in hospital on preventable reasons?

Are you blind at lost of homeless stay in front of city hall everyday?

Are you blind one in every Canadian children are living in poverty?

Canada has done many, many things wrong and the west has committed many crimes. And I can say that here under no fear of reprisal. However, I refuse to acknowledge any of them with you, as you will not even acknowledge the most obvious faults of China's repressive government.

I would be equally reluctant to discuss these things with a Canadian super-patriot as you - a Chinese super-patriot. I'm usually on this board talking about Canada's faults (usually mismanagement of service delivery, and failings in the democratic structure) and wouldn't even have much to say about China, except that you have come on here promoting it as having a superior structure to the "western powers".

BTW - are you Chinese or Canadian ? To me, that doesn't matter, but it just occurred to me that not being Chinese must be difficult for a super-patriot such as yourself. It's a problem when someone identifies themselves so much with another group that their own values disappear.

[GostHacked]

Besides,

Are you blind at the fact that most native people dead after 1400s?

Are you blind at thousands of kids dead in residential schools?

Are you blind at lots of kids die from suicide under the care of CAS.

Are you blind at lots of kids lost their parents in Canada?

Are you blind at lots of people die in hospital on preventable reasons?

Are you blind at lost of homeless stay in front of city hall everyday?

Are you blind one in every Canadian children are living in poverty?

Answers in order of your questions.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

You are so kind to care about China? If you are so kind, just donate something for Haiti, where care is in need now. Chinese rescue team arrived in Haiti first, 2 hours before US team, did you ever do something on that?

They got there a whole two hours before the US teams?? That's stickin it to them!!!

[Born Free]

He's been on here for months, and behaving the same way. Usually the topic is why the "western powers" are the same as China because, effectively, we place some limited controls (i.e. laws) on people.

He's a shill for China, basically.

Thanks. Does he know that pro-Western shills arent permitted in China?

[bjre]

Thanks. Does he know that pro-Western shills arent permitted in China?

Many obvious western shills can be seen in large forums in China.

[maple_leafs182]

communism, democracy, they are both fascism at heart.

No matter which you live under you're forced to obey state rules and laws that are enforced by people with guns.

The difference is in a democracy the people think they are free.

Edited January 20, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[Oleg Bach]

First we give our finacial and technical support to a former enemy - Japan...Then in time destroys our industrial base including car manufacturing...Now we send our technical assistance to China so a few of our rich elite can get richer..and in time China's agenda will become clear. It is becoming evident that they wish if they could - utterly destroy our culture and surplant it with their highly profitable tyranical system... I just wonder - who are the traitors that strengthen our enemies while turning a profit that the common guy has no share in?

[Oleg Bach]

communism, democracy, they are both fascism at heart.

No matter which you live under you're forced to obey state rules and laws that are enforced by people with guns.

The difference is in a democracy the people think they are free.

Exactly..law enforcement in this nation is power..and it as Mao said comes from the barrel of a gun - Take on disgrunted husband or father who has been plundered by a corrupt judical system - give said man a stick or a butter knife - put him out in front of his house and he if lost in emotion will be dispatched quickly by police without trial.

[bjre]

I have many good things to say about modern China. Chinese Communism brought stability and reduced starvation in a turbulent time. And China was smart enough to leave Communism behind when it had outlived its usefulness. They are the only Communist country to see the wisdom of giving up central planning, and allowing some capitalism, and saw the rewards in that.

It is not bad that you can see some undeniable fact.

They need to take the next step, and allow for dissent, as it will improve things overall.

Too many "democracy" countries in Africa and Latin America and Rusia who take western advice and becomes even much poor and unstable.

to blindly support China.

Proof and cite please.

See the insanely large blue text:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=15677&st=90&p=501433entry501433

That can not prove 'blindly', my support is based on fact.

Canada has done many, many things wrong and the west has committed many crimes. And I can say that here under no fear of reprisal.

It is good start for you to recognize those.

However, I refuse to acknowledge any of them with you,

Because that will make your blame of China becomes pale.

as you will not even acknowledge the most obvious faults of China's repressive government.

Definitely I will not acknowledge lies.

I would be equally reluctant to discuss these things with a Canadian super-patriot as you - a Chinese super-patriot. I'm usually on this board talking about Canada's faults (usually mismanagement of service delivery, and failings in the democratic structure)

I am not super-patriot. I have cites to backup my thinking unlike those who reluctant (or unable) to tell reason.

and wouldn't even have much to say about China, except that you have come on here promoting it as having a superior structure to the "western powers".

That's not true, You post the 2nd with gloat before I post anything in this thread.

BTW - are you Chinese or Canadian ? To me, that doesn't matter, but it just occurred to me that not being Chinese must be difficult for a super-patriot such as yourself. It's a problem when someone identifies themselves so much with another group that their own values disappear.

Whenever anyone maliciously attack China with "freedom" or "human right", I am a Chinese.

[bjre]

communism, democracy, they are both fascism at heart.

No matter which you live under you're forced to obey state rules and laws that are enforced by people with guns.

The difference is in a democracy the people think they are free.

Has some thinking in it.

Although I don't know any system good enough that can be practice, I believe good education to make lots of people responsible and think of others and think of people and able to solve problems creatively will be helpful.

If we have many such people as politicians, system type will be not so important.

If we have only selfish politicians, people will suffer no matter what kind of system we have.

[Oleg Bach]

It is not bad that you can see some undeniable fact.

Too many "democracy" countries in Africa and Latin America and Rusia who take western advice and becomes even much poor and unstable.

That can not prove 'blindly', my support is based on fact.

It is good start for you to recognize those.

Because that will make your blame of China becomes pale.

Definitely I will not acknowledge lies.

I am not super-patriot. I have cites to backup my thinking unlike those who reluctant (or unable) to tell reason.

That's not true, You post the 2nd with gloat before I post anything in this thread.

Whenever anyone maliciously attack China with "freedom" or "human right", I am a Chinese.

He is absolutely correct - what right do we have trying to seduce the slaves in China and take them away from their masters? I don't see the Chinese attempting to steal our slaves...oh - maybe they do - they have enslaved our stupified consumers - all is fair in love and war... Just don't send China opium..it will destroy the place and open the door to slavery ---ooooops - sorry that was done a hundred years ago - This so-called cyberwar is about the stealing of human resourses - the west not only wants the product but the labouring producers as well - The human rights issues are actually an attempt to generate the begining of a hostile merger of sorts.. America is a highly skilled imperialist force - China is just now learning to be what it once was...

[bush_cheney2004]

... America is a highly skilled imperialist force - China is just now learning to be what it once was...

Correct....America learned from the royal best.

[Oleg Bach]

Correct....America learned from the royal best.

It can all be traced down and figured out. You don't have to be a history buff. If you use logic - have a basic understanding of long term chronology..and are willing to except the fact that some human beings are simply horrible bastards..then you are well on your way to having a real education..but - as long as you are trusting of those that sit in high places and you respect the rich and powerful like they are demi-gods then you are a loser who lacks wisdom and history is bound to repeat itself because we refuse to believe in our very own eyes and ears.

[bjre]

Contractors Vie for Plum Work, Hacking for U.S.

From New York Times

MELBOURNE, Fla. — The government’s urgent push into cyberwarfare has set off a rush among the biggest military companies for billions of dollars in new defense contracts.

The exotic nature of the work, coupled with the deep recession, is enabling the companies to attract top young talent that once would have gone to Silicon Valley. And the race to develop weapons that defend against, or initiate, computer attacks has given rise to thousands of “hacker soldiers” within the Pentagon who can blend the new capabilities into the nation’s war planning.

Nearly all of the largest military companies — including Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin and Raytheon — have major cyber contracts with the military and intelligence agencies.

......

Mr. Harding estimates that there are now 3,000 to 5,000 information operations specialists in the military and 50,000 to 70,000 soldiers involved in general computer operations. Adding specialists in electronic warfare, deception and other areas could bring the total number of information operations personnel to as many as 88,700, he said.

[bjre]

From CBC reader's comment :

LandOfOz wrote:Posted 2010/01/22 at 7:43 AM ET

The US simply wants oppressed people to have the right to express themselves freely and be spied on by their government.

Unless they consider them terrorists, in which case they'll throw you in Gitmo and throw away the key without the slightest regard for due process.

Or if they think your an "enemy combatant" in an undeclared war, in which case they'll torture you in a secret black camp on foreign soil.

Of if you're "acting against national security", in which case they use the Patriot Act to circumvent the requirement for court order to get a wire tap.

But if you're the Chinese government, since you don't "stand for freedom", all that would be bad.

Edited January 22, 2010 by bjre

[Michael Hardner]

From CBC reader's comment :

LandOfOz wrote:Posted 2010/01/22 at 7:43 AM ET

The US simply wants oppressed people to have the right to express themselves freely and be spied on by their government.

Unless they consider them terrorists, in which case they'll throw you in Gitmo and throw away the key without the slightest regard for due process.

Or if they think your an "enemy combatant" in an undeclared war, in which case they'll torture you in a secret black camp on foreign soil.

Of if you're "acting against national security", in which case they use the Patriot Act to circumvent the requirement for court order to get a wire tap.

But if you're the Chinese government, since you don't "stand for freedom", all that would be bad.

You shouldn't just excerpt posts from other forums here. It doesn't add to the discussion.

[bjre]

Twitter Crackdown: NYC Activist Arrested for Using Social Networking Site during G-20 Protest in Pittsburgh

Man Arrested for Twittering Goes to Court, EFF Has the Documents

Watch What You Tweet

A social worker from New York City was arrested last week while in Pittsburgh to participate in the G-20 protests, then subjected to an FBI raid this week at his home—all for using Twitter. Elliot Madison faces charges of hindering apprehension or prosecution, criminal use of a communication facility and possession of instruments of crime. He was posting to a Twitter feed (or tweeting, as it is called) publicly available information about police activities around the G-20 protests, including information about where police had been ordered to disperse protesters.

While alerting people to public information may not seem to be an arrestable offense, be forewarned: Many people have been arrested for the same “crime”—in Iran, that is.

Last June 20, as Iranians protested against the conduct and results of their national election, President Barack Obama said in a statement, “The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.”