H1N1

[Shady]

I was just wondering how everyone was handling the catastrophic H1N1 season?

Remember how bad it was going to be? Pregnant women and young children lying dead in the streets. Not enough vaccines were produced, and not enough time to get enough people protected.

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K. I just wanted to say, that I was right, and those of you who criticized me, were very, very, very, wrong. Completely, utterly, and embarassingly wrong. Thank you.

[Moonbox]

Haha nice.

I can't wait until I can say this about global warming 10 years from now. Hope everyone is still lurking these forums then.

What would do with out mass-hysteria?

[Born Free]

I was just wondering how everyone was handling the catastrophic H1N1 season?

Remember how bad it was going to be? Pregnant women and young children lying dead in the streets. Not enough vaccines were produced, and not enough time to get enough people protected.

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K. I just wanted to say, that I was right, and those of you who criticized me, were very, very, very, wrong. Completely, utterly, and embarassingly wrong. Thank you.

Did you really think that our governments (Fed/Prov/Municiple)should not have done a damn thing about the potential threat problem from the H1N1 virus?

[BubberMiley]

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K.

Uh.. you never considered that the Conservative government's tremendous effort to supply vaccine to all Canadians was both administratively and effectively a great success?

One thing about anonymous internet posters is they never know the future. You didn't know how the world's immune systems would react to this new strain because no one knew. And just like Y2K, we will never know if the results would have been overwhelmingly bad if we chose to do nothing to prevent it.

The problem with success is that it breeds complacency--not to mention know-nothing fools saying "I told you there was no need to worry" after that success.

[waldo]

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K.

And just like Y2K, we will never know if the results would have been overwhelmingly bad if we chose to do nothing to prevent it. The problem with success is that it breeds complacency--not to mention know-nothing fools saying "I told you there was no need to worry" after that success.

I'll go a step further... if only to highlight another of Shady's spurious analogies: if Y2K hadn't been addressed to the degree it was, most assuredly there would have been government, industry, military, commercial, personal, etc., catastrophe - yes, that's the word, catastrophe!

[Born Free]

I'll go a step further... if only to highlight another of Shady's spurious analogies: if Y2K hadn't been addressed to the degree it was, most assuredly there would have been government, industry, military, commercial, personal, etc., catastrophe - yes, that's the word, catastrophe!

Trust me when I say..that is absolutely true. Being in the computer field with a major Canadian bank (now retired), we would be still trying to recover from the disaster had the banks not spent careful time and effort with it...

[Bugs]

The man in charge of Health at the Council of Europe has accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of running a scam over H1N1.

The Council of Europe has passed a resolution backed by Dr Wodarg. calling for an investigation into the role of drug firms. An emergency debate on the motion will be held later this month.

Chief Medical Officer Sir Liam Donaldson last year ordered the NHS to plan for up to 65,000 deaths

The Department of Health warned of 65,000 deaths, set up a special advice line and website, suspended normal rules so anti-flu drugs could be given out without prescription and told health and local authorities to prepare for a major pandemic.

Planners were told to get morgues ready for the sheer scale of deaths and there were warnings that the Army could be called in to prevent riots as people fought to obtain drugs.

But with fewer than 5,000 in England catching the disease last week and just 251 deaths overall, Dr Wodarg has branded the H1N1 outbreak as 'one of the greatest medical scandals of the century'.

He said: 'We have had a mild flu - and a false pandemic.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242147/The-false-pandemic-Drug-firms-cashed-scare-swine-flu-claims-Euro-health-chief.html#ixzz0cQwL1yJX

The article is worth reading.

[ZenOps]

I was just wondering how everyone was handling the catastrophic H1N1 season?

Remember how bad it was going to be? Pregnant women and young children lying dead in the streets. Not enough vaccines were produced, and not enough time to get enough people protected.

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K. I just wanted to say, that I was right, and those of you who criticized me, were very, very, very, wrong. Completely, utterly, and embarassingly wrong. Thank you.

$8 per flushot and about $2 per person for the advertising to get the message out.

Money well spent for an ounce of prevention. Heck, if everyone spent $10 to change the oil in their car when they are supposed to - We'd probably all save thousands of dollars each (But then again - all the repair shops would be cyring too)

Honestly - the extra vaccine we are now shipping to Mexico has probably improved our relations immeasureably. Including now grateful natives in this country who may possibly be placated that they are "alive".

$10 million spent on vaccine is probably worth 1 billion spent on climate change in terms of political influence.

Edited January 12, 2010 by ZenOps

[Oleg Bach]

Politcals that arranged for the contracts involving public money - with the pharma companies that engaged in this fear mongering for profit should be brought to account.

[ZenOps]

Politcals that arranged for the contracts involving public money - with the pharma companies that engaged in this fear mongering for profit should be brought to account.

But its a miniscule amount. Much less than the average Canadian prescription per month, nevermind year.

If Pharmaceuticals want to fear monger a 100 year flu or even a seasonal flu - Let them. The price is absolutely tiny. If Pharmaceuticals want to fear monger than you pecker is going to fall off if you don't use Viagra - then its a problem.

IMO it was the right thing to do according to about half of the Canadian population who has voluntarily taken the shot. There will always be skeptics and realists.

Heck - We never landed on the moon - and the US spent how many trillions on that?

Edited January 12, 2010 by ZenOps

[Mr.Canada]

H1N1 is all hype. Just a scare tactic used by the Liberals to try to smear our PM Stephan Harper but it didn't work. Our Health Minister handled this minor situation with ease and I firmly hope she gets a promotion to a higher profile portfolio when the House resumes.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[Mr.Canada]

Heck - We never landed on the moon - and the US spent how many trillions on that?

You'd better start watching Mythbusters.

[Oleg Bach]

You'd better start watching Mythbusters.

Those Mythbuster guys a classic American brats - they pollute - blow up stuff needlessly and we all watch..just like real life.

[segnosaur]

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K. I just wanted to say, that I was right, and those of you who criticized me, were very, very, very, wrong. Completely, utterly, and embarassingly wrong. Thank you.

Here's a question: What exactly did you say in the other thread?

If you claimed that H1N1 was "over hyped", you were probably right. On the other hand, if you claimed that there was "nothing at all" to worry about, then you were still wrong.

Some things to keep in mind:

- Yes, this flu season has been relatively mild. But people still get hospitalized and still die. At least some of those deaths are preventable if more people had gotten vaccinated. The fact that not as many died as expected shouldn't be a reason to cheer; instead we should look at the people who did die and ask "could those deaths have been prevented".

- Yes, the flu season was relatively mild. But, keep in mind that roughly half the population got vaccinated. That would seriously cut down the number of infections/deaths. Granted, its not always possible to play "what if...", and I doubt we'd see a replay of the "Black death", but we would still be looking at significantly more casualties if we hadn't gotten mass immunizations

It is unfortunate that there was such 'panic'. Ideally, people shouldn't be scared into getting vaccinated; they should get vaccinated because its the smart/logical/right thing to do.

[ZenOps]

You'd better start watching Mythbusters.

Well, if you believed the US media back in 1969, I guess you will believe it today... After all - US presidents never lie either.

Even Mythbusters did a "revisit" episode, where they admit they make mistakes from time to time.

"Weapons of mass Destruction!" "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" "I did not inhale!" "I am not a crook!"

This guy has a right to be skeptical about the lethality of H1N1.

I have the right to be skeptical about a manned mission to the 1/6th gravity manned mission to the moon, where it takes about two million pounds of rocketfuel to launch something off of the earth, but just ten years earlier the US couldn't beat the USSR in putting an 84 kilogram object 250 miles up (Sputnik)

Edited January 12, 2010 by ZenOps

[Keepitsimple]

Here's a Letter to the Editor that I recently sent to the Star in critique of their editorial entitled "Post Mortem on H1N1 Flu". Needless to say, it was not published:

H1N1 - The Boy who cried Wolf

The Star would be better advised to do a post mortem on media coverage of the H1N1 debacle. The Star was not alone in its misleading coverage of this "pandemic", but perhaps now would be a good time to reflect on the damage that unbalanced reporting, verging on hysteria can cause. Results from New Zealand and Australia - with a flu season that precedes our own - clearly showed that H1N1 was not the murderous villain that it was made out to be. New Zealand, which was prepared for as many as 10,000 deaths, recorded only 17. Australia had similar mild effects. Even as H1N1 started to take only a feeble hold, The Star and other media made no attempt to keep things in constant perspective - to educate their readers that seasonal flu causes thousands of mortalities each and every year. Day after day, terror-inducing headlines were front-page news - capped off by the sensational reporting of the unfortunate passing of Evan Frustaglio. This sensationalist journalism was directly responsible for the nation-wide stampede of terrified Canadians rushing to get their flu-shots. This would have been an excellent opportunity for The Star to reinforce how deadly ALL seasonal flu can be. As it turns out, people will now treat this story as another "Boy who cried Wolf". And that's a shame.

[ToadBrother]

It is unfortunate that there was such 'panic'. Ideally, people shouldn't be scared into getting vaccinated; they should get vaccinated because its the smart/logical/right thing to do.

I think agencies like WHO are caught in a catch-22. They may know that something like H1N1 may not be the next Black Death, but at the same time it has the potential to seriously disrupt things. If they're completely honest and say "It may fizzle out, but for your own sake, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to get inoculated", people, being people, will just go "ya whatever, turn the channel, I think the Flames are playing". So they go the other direction, and the media, ever ready to whip up a good panic in the name of ratings, gladly creates a storm of fear. Now lots of people run like hell, faster than anyone's health system can manage, to get the vaccine, pushing over little old ladies and people with suppressed immune systems. At the end of the day, the potential of a pandemic fades, in part because the odds weren't all that great to begin with, and in part because a bunch of people half-crazed from fear went out and got the damn shot.

Of course, the downside is you have all the wannabe epidemiologists, conspiracy nuts and he-men who believe if you just eat three raw eggs and jump in freezing water each day, your proof against everything, jump up and say "See, nothing happened!!!!"

[segnosaur]

I'm going on the assumption that ZenOps actually does have doubts about the "moon landing". (Its possible that he was joking when he made his earlier comments.)

Well, if you believed the US media back in 1969, I guess you will believe it today... After all - US presidents never lie either.

If you're talking about the moon landing, remember, you're not only dealing with the President. The moon landing involved the work of thousands upon thousands of scientists, technicians, engineers, etc. working for the Apollo project. Even today, they can actually view the moon landing sites using probes. In order for some "moon hoax" to be carried out, you'd need thousands upon thousands of people to lie, convincingly at that, without one person having a change of mind and ratting everyone out. Given the fact that the government couldn't even keep Bill Clinton's infidelities or a break-in at the Watergate hotel secret, why exactly do you think they'd be able to keep a much larger plot "hidden"?

Heck, if they did fake the moon landing, why exactly do you think the Russians actually went along? Given cold-war politics, you'd figure the Russians would have ever radio telescope (as well as every other resource) dedicated to proving the American's were "wrong" and weren't able to land on the moon.

I have the right to be skeptical about a manned mission to the 1/6th gravity manned mission to the moon,

I think you're mis-using the word "skeptical" here. Being a 'skeptic' does not necessarily mean assuming "everything you hear might be wrong".

Let logic guide you. Ever hear of "Occam's Razor"? In a simplest form, its the idea that "the simplest solution is usually correct". So, what is more likely:

- That there is a global conspiracy, involving possibly millions of people even in possibly hostile countries to fake the moon landing (as well as all the evidence... moon rocks that were returned, pictures taken both then and now, equipment left on the surface of the moon that broadcast scientific data for years), and not one person has come through with evidence that it was a hoax?

- That humans really did land on the moon

... where it takes about two million pounds of rocketfuel to launch something off of the earth...

Thing about traveling in space... once you escape earth's gravity well (as we've done time and time again with various space probes, etc.) you don't need much fuel to keep going.

...but just ten years earlier the US couldn't beat the USSR in putting an 84 kilogram object 250 miles up (Sputnik)

So? It also only took them about a decade to go from the first jet engines to launching Sputnik. Sometimes, society is just successful at things.

[segnosaur]

Here's a Letter to the Editor that I recently sent to the Star in critique of their editorial entitled "Post Mortem on H1N1 Flu". Needless to say, it was not published:

H1N1 - The Boy who cried Wolf

...Results from New Zealand and Australia - with a flu season that precedes our own - clearly showed that H1N1 was not the murderous villain that it was made out to be.

It is true, NZ and Australia did have very mild flu seasons. But keep something in mind: The start of the flu season in Australia was a lot closer to the time when the virus was discovered, and Australia is relatively isolated. It might have been a logical assumption (at least at the time) that the reason their flu season was so mild was because H1N1 didn't get a chance to "entrench" itself prior to the full onset of the season.

Compare that to the U.S. and Canada, both of which are geographically closer to Mexico (the possible source of H1N1), and both of which had later-starting flu seasons. That might have meant more opportunity for the virus to get established in the population.

This would have been an excellent opportunity for The Star to reinforce how deadly ALL seasonal flu can be. As it turns out, people will now treat this story as another "Boy who cried Wolf". And that's a shame

Yes, I have to agree with poth your points... people are under-informed when it comes to seasonal flu, and people may now be more complacent if/when we have similar outbreaks.

[ZenOps]

I don't think the boy who cried wolf applies here.

"Wolf" was cried - and we created a vaccine to innoculate everyone.

That some people pull out pitchforks and have a reactionary response to a threat every time it happens is unfortunate.

What is that equivalent to in the fairy tale story? Putting up a barb wire fence around the town so that if a wolf ever did attack - they would be forever protected from it. Happy ending for everyone.

If you do the pitchforks everytime - its bad. If you put up a fence so that it can never happen again - its win win yes?

[ZenOps]

As for the moon hoax believeability.

US Gallup poll in 1999 says 6% say hoax, 5% undecided, 89% happened.

British approximately 25% hoax

Russian 28% hoax

Canada did not do a poll large enough to be statistically accurate but its somewhere around 25% hoax, 25% undecided.

The percentages for "hoax" are steadily increasing every year.

[Guest TrueMetis]

H1N1 is all hype. Just a scare tactic used by the Liberals to try to smear our PM Stephan Harper but it didn't work. Our Health Minister handled this minor situation with ease and I firmly hope she gets a promotion to a higher profile portfolio when the House resumes.

Ya that makes sense.

As for the moon hoax believeability.

US Gallup poll in 1999 says 6% say hoax, 5% undecided, 89% happened.

British approximately 25% hoax

Russian 28% hoax

Canada did not do a poll large enough to be statistically accurate but its somewhere around 25% hoax, 25% undecided.

The percentages for "hoax" are steadily increasing every year.

And? If everyone believed that creationism was right it would still be wrong. The truth is not a democracy.

Edited January 12, 2010 by TrueMetis

[ToadBrother]

As for the moon hoax believeability.

US Gallup poll in 1999 says 6% say hoax, 5% undecided, 89% happened.

British approximately 25% hoax

Russian 28% hoax

Canada did not do a poll large enough to be statistically accurate but its somewhere around 25% hoax, 25% undecided.

The percentages for "hoax" are steadily increasing every year.

Which goes to show you the stupidity of people is growing.

The astronauts left a g*dd*mn*ed mirror on the frickin' Moon that scientists bounce laser beams off of to measure things like orbital perturbations and moonquakes.

We went to the moon. Deal with it.

[bjre]

I even guess it can be somewhat medical company designed with a carefully chosen from new flu that happened every year.

They might choose one for sell their medicines.

They can make a lot of money from a lot of nations. With the help of media and politicians they can earn even more.

But this is a pure guess although I think it is very possible.

Swine flu 'a false pandemic' to sell vaccines, expert says

* By Chris Pollard * From: NewsCore * January 12, 2010 1:11PM

THE swine flu scare was a "false pandemic" led by drugs companies that stood to make billions from vaccines, a leading health expert said.

Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, claimed major firms organized a "campaign of panic" to put pressure on the World Health Organization (WHO) to declare a pandemic, UK tabloid The Sun reports.

He believes it is, "one of the greatest medicine scandals of the century", and has called for an inquiry.

[Sir Bandelot]

I was just wondering how everyone was handling the catastrophic H1N1 season?

Remember how bad it was going to be? Pregnant women and young children lying dead in the streets. Not enough vaccines were produced, and not enough time to get enough people protected.

In another thread, I insisted that H1N1 was this years version of Y2K. I just wanted to say, that I was right, and those of you who criticized me, were very, very, very, wrong. Completely, utterly, and embarassingly wrong. Thank you.

:lol:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=14853&view=findpost&p=473090

Guess I won't need to buy someone any cherry coolers!

Oh well