For those fed up with Harper's undemocratic behavior, tell your MP

[Alta4ever]

oh... you do have a reason after all... but I thought it wouldn't be a self-serving one. Can you state which bills were 'killed' in the Senate... in this latest 40th Parliament, 2nd Session? Can you state which bills were even significantly impacted by the Senate... in this latest 40th Parliament, 2nd Session? I posted earlier in that regard - although it won't be the help you're looking for:

She states the case right here, the amendments effectively kill the legislation as it amends the bill beyond the intent of the bill

urse that unelected, unaccountable Upper House? Sure, go ahead, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it would seem that very few of the 35 now-at-least-temporarily defunct bills were actually victims of a stubbornly obstructionist Other Place. Three, to be precise: the oft-cited consumer safety bill (C-6), and the drug sentencing bill (C-15), both of which did manage to make it to third reading in the Senate, but which were saddled with amendments that the government has preemptively - and forcefully - rejected, and C-26 (auto theft), which was sent to Legal and Constitutional Affairs at the end of October, where it remains -- or remained until prorogation -- under consideration.

[waldo]

She states the case right here, the amendments effectively kill the legislation as it amends the bill beyond the intent of the bill

urse that unelected, unaccountable Upper House? Sure, go ahead, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it would seem that very few of the 35 now-at-least-temporarily defunct bills were actually victims of a stubbornly obstructionist Other Place. Three, to be precise: the oft-cited consumer safety bill (C-6), and the drug sentencing bill (C-15), both of which did manage to make it to third reading in the Senate, but which were saddled with amendments that the government has preemptively - and forcefully - rejected, and C-26 (auto theft), which was sent to Legal and Constitutional Affairs at the end of October, where it remains -- or remained until prorogation -- under consideration.

3 bills... how obstructionist!!! In actuality, it's been widely written that Harper has had personal conniption fits over the single bill - C6... the so-called Consumer Safety Bill. It's also quite telling to read the analysis that suggests the Senate changes have significantly improved the bill... for the Consumer. Unfortunately, they're not changes to Steve's personal satisfaction... and since he isn't, at least for now, designate King, he will need to wait... just a bit. He'll need to reintroduce that bill and start over. Perogy anyone?

[eyeball]

You people talk like the house is never going to sit again.

At this point, who cares if it does? It's obvious the power in this country pretty much rests entirely in the PMO. The rest is just for show.

If this is what passes for democracy, I'm fed up with it.

My MP can bite me.

[Wild Bill]

Well, well! The opening post encourages me to tell my MP how I feel about this issue.

Myself, I don't really mind what Harper did! It might be a bit of a cheap trick but compared to what I saw from Chretien and Trudeau its "mice nuts" in the scheme of things.

So of course I would not support my MP taking any protest action.

However, my MP happens to be NDP. Why should I bother telling him how I feel?

Does anyone seriously believe that he will care at all how I think? Does anyone seriously believe that even if I went to the effort to poll my riding and found that the majority of folks agreed with me that my MP would not blindly follow his party line anyway?

What the OP really means is " Tell your MP how you feel but only if you agree with my stance against Harper! If you don't then don't waste our time!"

This is not an expression of democracy. It's just more partisan noise.

Man, sometimes I really miss Reform!

[Keepitsimple]

For anyone who wants to listen to the Prime Minister about his reasons for proroguing, here is the interview with Peter Mansbridge on the National:

Link: http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV_Shows/The_National/ID=1377965699

[waldo]

For anyone who wants to listen to the Prime Minister about his reasons for proroguing, here is the interview with Peter Mansbridge on the National:

Link: http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV_Shows/The_National/ID=1377965699

c'mon Simple... Harper danced around the question... what were his reasons? Why expect people to wade through the CBC year-end interview videos (2) waiting for the King to apprise his fiefdom. C'mon Simple... what were the stated Harper reasons for his latest perogy run?

[madmax]

And yet parliament has been prorogued on average ever 1.5 years. Hardly undemocratic, spread your propaganda elsewhere.

Skin a little thin?

The Conservatives are behaving like Liberals on Steroids. Propoganda? Give me a break. One thing is certain and that is people of all political stripes are not impressed by Proroguing of Parliment.

While you may be comfortable with it, I doubt you were when the Liberals did it.

Regardless the current governments use of proroguing can be argued as undemocratic.

If you disagree with that premise, there is no doubt that the Harper government looks lazy and unwilling to go to work. Nice long breaks, extended Christmas holidays, enjoying the Olympics, while the rest of Canadians go to work and pay taxes. Those things that Canadians will be paying while Harper and his gang sit on their arses and clap like trained seals.

I already know some MPs that are becoming nervous nellies because some of their members in the riding association are openly opposed to proroguation. The don't like facing the crew at the coffee shop.

So....

Call it propoganda. But the fact is, 25% of CPC supporters opposed prorogation before christmas. I imagine that will go higher as the months of holidays continue.

[madmax]

the liberals only did it for times in 12 years!!!!.

Oh look the weakest Conservative talking points are on all the forums and blogs.

Are we to expect Harper to break the LPC #?

OR more importantly, is this holiday justified or excuseable to the public who have mainly been apathetic?

I think the free lunch is coming to an end and those visions of CPC majority will be status quo short a seat or 3.

Edited January 7, 2010 by madmax

[Shakeyhands]

I said he must have a good reason, nor do I care what it is, but I do love it when the uber left gets a riled up he must be doing something right.

Actually you said that they HAVE a good reason, there was no must have's about it. And as you know, that one word changes the whole meaning.

I've yet to hear a single good reason personally, with so much legislation to be completed, it really does look like Harper is doing this for his own good.

By the by, and this is seriously a question, how many times did a Liberal Prime Minister prorogue Parliament with this much unfinished business?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

They had a reason, or they would not have done it. The thing is, are Canadians satisfied with that reason. It seems that we may never know because the may never come straight out and say why it was that they did what they did. All this really tells us is that they either don't want to tell us or that they don't think the answer will go over well with us. Either way it looks like they fear the public response, and in politics that fear can be smelled out by other political sharks like blood in the water.

Steve may have made a serious error by assuming public sentiment.

[Keepitsimple]

c'mon Simple... Harper danced around the question... what were his reasons? Why expect people to wade through the CBC year-end interview videos (2) waiting for the King to apprise his fiefdom. C'mon Simple... what were the stated Harper reasons for his latest perogy run?

To me, he stated it pretty clearly. 2009 was an extraordinary year that required extraordinary measures. We're entering into a new year that will require more extraordinary measures to eventually bring us back to fiscal balance. We need fresh thinking and a new direction, a fresh budget. For the past 6 months, the Left has been hollering for a "plan" to address the deficit. That's what Harper was saying in the video - it's time for the government to "re-calibrate" it's approach to start to recover from all the extraordinary spending of 2009. So they are taking an extra month to put everything in place and come back with a Speech from the Throne and a new budget on Day 1 and Day 2. If the opposition and Canadians don't like it, they can "throw the bums out" by defeating the government. Pretty clear. Pretty simple.

[Bryan]

I SUPPORT the Prorogation of Parliament and the Prime Minister of Canada

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=240544201629

[madmax]

To me, he stated it pretty clearly. 2009 was an extraordinary year that required extraordinary measures. We're entering into a new year that will require more extraordinary measures to eventually bring us back to fiscal balance. We need fresh thinking and a new direction, a fresh budget. For the past 6 months, the Left has been hollering for a "plan" to address the deficit. That's what Harper was saying in the video - it's time for the government to "re-calibrate" it's approach to start to recover from all the extraordinary spending of 2009. So they are taking an extra month to put everything in place and come back with a Speech from the Throne and a new budget on Day 1 and Day 2. If the opposition and Canadians don't like it, they can "throw the bums out" by defeating the government. Pretty clear. Pretty simple.

So Flaherty and Harper can't walk and chew gum at the same time? They are unable to do their duties, have to let everything that is in various stages fall by the wayside because they haven't the competence to do their job? The excuse is weak and I believe as people hear it, they won't believe it either.

Normally Harper habit has been to undermine his own progress as ambition takes over governance. The Prime Minister just went through his best period this fall and made no missteps for months, whereas Ignatieff continued to error. Politics is a game of the least mistakes, and that pushed Harper and the CPC near majority territory.

I don't know about the "throw the bums out", people want them to "GET BACK TO WORK". And quite frankly, an election is likely to create a similar set of circumstances with most parties sitting with 3 to 6 seats of their present positions. Thus, another election and we could end up with our third CPC minority government and more of Harpers desire for "Time off" and prorogation when he and his ministers can't handle their feet near the fire.

[madmax]

I SUPPORT the Prorogation of Parliament and the Prime Minister of Canada

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=240544201629

hahahahahahaha

LAPDOG

Lets see....

85,000 vs 313 people.

Lets have an election NOW and Prorogation the Ballot Question. LOL.

Edited January 7, 2010 by madmax

[myata]

Oh look the weakest Conservative talking points are on all the forums and blogs.

Are we to expect Harper to break the LPC #?

And one more time (sigh... but it has to be done as many times as it takes to sink in, even in the most difficult cases), when Liberals did it, they had a majority, and they could easily have the House vote to prorogue itself (which I think they should have done, instead of taking GG route, but it's little more than a technicality).

Which Harper does not have just yet (as he and his supporters seem at times to forget; or not notice). His use of prorogation was entirely to interfere with, and undermine the work of the elected House. And our democracy itself, as a direct consequence.

We can let him get away with it only by having credibility of our political system compromised seriously and perhaps, irrevocably.

[capricorn]

What the OP really means is " Tell your MP how you feel but only if you agree with my stance against Harper! If you don't then don't waste our time!"

This is not an expression of democracy. It's just more partisan noise.

Just like the facebook petition on prorogation, which is really a "I hate Stephen Harper" forum.

So let me get this straight. You don't have time to delete hateful images of the Prime Minister, but a post mocking you gets zapped right away? What possible defence does that leave? You can't play the "mockery lowers the tone of debate" card, since I'd suggest that photoshopped images of John Baird's head on a woman's body also do that. Ditto the button saying, "I'd rather be waterboarding Harper." Waterboarding still means torture, right? So you want to torture the Prime Minister? Yes? Just checking.

Citizens, take a long look at what you see here. Such is the face of modern progressivism. Comparing the Prime Minister to a genocidal madman? A-okay with us. Mocking us guardians of democracy and progressivism? Way out of line.

When these guys clean up their website, maybe they'll be worth listening to. In the meantime, they're just another bunch of rabid anti-conservatives, doing their best to show that intolerance is no longer the right's game.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/01/05/matt-gurney-anti-harper-facebook-group-picks-and-chooses-its-censorship.aspx

[madmax]

Just like the facebook petition on prorogation, which is really a "I hate Stephen Harper" forum.

Sometimes attacking the messenger or finding the freaks, which is often what media reports in order to sell a story, can work. But I don't believe that this article or any others are going to affect the big picture.

Are there Harper haters? Of course.

But the silent majority who are not, are asking a very simple question.

WHY?

And the answer so far is unfocused.

I very much doubt that the 85000 are dedicated Harper haters as I can start pointing out people on that page that had a CPC lawnsign on their yard in 2008. (EDITED, I can also point

out a member of a CPC riding association executive member). I am certain that they may be uncomfortable with the outspoken and sometimes irrational anger directed at Harper or Flaherty or Baird.

But then again, if Harper, Flaherty and Baird went back to work that would be the end of it.

Wouldn't it.

The government is capable of going back to work in January if they wanted to do so.

I do not believe the government is incapable of doing its job.

The government doesn't want to sit because it believes that the public doesn't care.

I want to see the public tell the government to get its ass in gear.

Its long overdue and what democracy needs.

Edited January 7, 2010 by madmax

[myata]

Just like the facebook petition on prorogation, which is really a "I hate Stephen Harper" forum.

Compromising and undermining the role of the elected House by a minority faction using oudated, undemocratic ploys is a direct challenge, and threat to real, functioning democracy. CPC will be held accountable for its actions, or we'll see ourselves on the road to a condition where we'll have the democracy only in the name. That's what the forum is about.

[capricorn]

But the silent majority who are not, are asking a very simple question.

WHY?

And the answer so far is unfocused.

I find the EKOS poll which shows a decline in Tory numbers more credible as a measure of dissatisfaction among the silent majority on the question of prorogation.

[Michael Hardner]

General question, if proroguing happens so often, why don't we hear about it more ?

Is it that it's being prorogued without a vote now ?

[cybercoma]

I said he must have a good reason, nor do I care what it is

This pretty much sums up the problem with our government regardless of who is in power. No one really cares what they do.

[cybercoma]

Nope in no way does this effect anything in this country.

You mean other than setting a precedent that destroys the fundamentals of responsible government that were established in the 19th century? Yeah. Other than that. It does nothing.

[myata]

This pretty much sums up the problem with our government regardless of who is in power. No one really cares what they do.

And a direct path from government for democracy to democracy for the government.

[Mr.Canada]

Democratic means a majority decision - the decision of one person is NOT democratic it is totalitarian and dictorial (from a dick tory). If he would have proposed it before parliament, explained there was business that needed to be attended to, or that the current legislation plan and the 60% of work, employees salaries and bills were counter productive to the work of parliament and everyone needed an extra month to air out and recollect their thoughts before they redressed the situation to see if they were on the same page they were in the fall - and they agreed THAT would be democratic to the point that first past the post representative democracy can be. Harper phoning up the GG and saying the last 8 months of work was a waste of time, I'd like a longer vacation to reduce my working months to around 7 OK. IS NOT DEMOCRACY. Him working 6 months a year and getting paid for a full year is totally off, how about cutting his salary in half, and treating it as an unpaid suspension with it not counting towards the gracious pensions all the MP's get - so as to reduce the 30 Million this one month baring of legislative process is costing tax payers with no work.

I see so it was undemocratic when Chretien did it as well then?

I think you have a problem with our whole deomcratic system.

Or do you just have a problem when Harper does anything, which I think is the case here. Hyper partisanship, nothing more.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[cybercoma]

Lets have an election NOW and Prorogation the Ballot Question. LOL.

Good. They ought to call an election and run on the question of proroguing parliament, since it's such a divisive issue, apparently.