bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Of course.....Canada and the USA were built on "genocide". So what's your problem? My problem is that I don't think genocide is so good, and I don't think we should collude with it. So, what's your problem? Edited December 22, 2009 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yes, but our leaders were not directly funding an effort to MAKE them starve. So the difference is profound. No...they were funding efforts to not make them starve, but they still did. There is no difference between dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 My problem is that I don't think genocide is so good, and I don't think we should collude with it. So, what's your problem? My problem is with wankers who selectively invoke "genocide" for their own pet projects and moral sensibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 No...they were funding efforts to not make them starve, but they still did. There is no difference between dead. There is a difference between trying to help people and failing, and helping to murder them. A very big difference. Even you must understand that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 There is a difference between trying to help people and failing, and helping to murder them. A very big difference. Even you must understand that much. "Helping to murder them" ???? You obviously do not understand much at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 My problem is with wankers who selectively invoke "genocide" for their own pet projects and moral sensibilities. right--like NATO and Western commentartos and the media and the President and the Prime Minister. All supporting genocide, while pretending fighting genocide was their "pet project" which offended their "moral sensibilities." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 "Helping to murder them" ???? You obviously do not understand much at all. See? I told you that you knew nothing of the Indonesian/East Timorese situation. Yes, helped murder them. Materially aidfed them in mass murder, while knowing they were materially aiding them in mass murder. I know you don't like criticisms of poweful men; you prefer to mock the people who criticize powerful men. But the facts are the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 right--like NATO and Western commentartos and the media and the President and the Prime Minister. Thanks for proving my point....good dog! All supporting genocide, while pretending fighting genocide was their "pet project" which offended their "moral sensibilities." I think we are close...to your revelation about genocide's utility in such a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks for proving my point....good dog! No, your point is that anyone who complains about genocide is a wanker...so long as the United States of God has a hand in it. I'm slightly surprised you can't even follown your own arguments. I think we are close...to your revelation about genocide's utility in such a game. Any "utilitarian" use of genocide is accepted only by drooling moral degenerates. They're as bad as pedophiles. Worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 See? I told you that you knew nothing of the Indonesian/East Timorese situation. Yes, helped murder them. Materially aidfed them in mass murder, while knowing they were materially aiding them in mass murder. Well hell man, you wouldn't like Allied actions during WW2 at all...LOL! I know you don't like criticisms of poweful men; you prefer to mock the people who criticize powerful men. But the facts are the facts. No, I prefer to mock idiots who think they know how to criticize powerful and not so powerful "men" (sic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Well hell man, you wouldn't like Allied actions during WW2 at all...LOL! When did the allies commit genocide? No, I prefer to mock idiots who think they know how to criticize powerful and not so powerful "men" (sic). You don't even know what you're talking about. So desperate to insult, you're losing it, man. You're losing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) When did the allies commit genocide? Whenever you need them to. You don't even know what you're talking about. So desperate to insult, you're losing it, man. You're losing it. I think roaring mice are so cute! Edited December 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 These argumenst about the media have at their core a few common myths. 1) The media is all knowing. If they don't cover something, they are covering up something. 2) Newspapers could print 1000 page editions cover every but of news. If they don't cover the bit of news of interst to one particular group, they are covering up something. 3) If the newspapers do cover something, they aren't covering it enough. 4) No other news itemn is as important as the news that a particular groups wants to see. The stock market crashing pales incomparison to a palestinian unable to find work. 5)Newspapers are unitersted in covering news that may offend some nebulous corporate interest, especially ones that do not advertise in newspapers but are involved in a story that is of interest to some particular group. I've heard it all over the 25 years in the media. It does seem odd, don't you think, that 150,000 to 200,000 East Timorese died and we're largely unaware. As you well know, I reject conspiracy theories. But why is it that we don't know ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 It does seem odd, don't you think, that 150,000 to 200,000 East Timorese died and we're largely unaware. As you well know, I reject conspiracy theories. But why is it that we don't know ? But we do/did know. 200,000 is a drop in the bucket given competing "genocides", wars, flood, earthquakes, and alleged pandemics. Here...pick your favorite "genocide": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yes....I'm obviously no fan of Chomsky. I remember East Timor as just one of many low grade human interest stories offered up before weather and sports. Many more suffering millions in SubSaharan Africa received even "less" coverage if that be the main point of contention. Pshaw..they got a Rock Concert... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 It does seem odd, don't you think, that 150,000 to 200,000 East Timorese died and we're largely unaware. As you well know, I reject conspiracy theories. But why is it that we don't know ? You didn't know. Don't project. AS well, that's hindsight knowing that #, that's 150K over 5 years of violence. As well, from not knowing to knowing, the US ended military sales of weapons likely to be used against civiliansin the aerly 90s. Now you could argue that it was because the media wasn't covering the story that pressure was put on the US government, or you could argue that because of increased awareness of the story, political pressure was put on the government. Pick the one most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 You didn't know. Don't project. AS well, that's hindsight knowing that #, that's 150K over 5 years of violence. As well, from not knowing to knowing, the US ended military sales of weapons likely to be used against civiliansin the aerly 90s. Now you could argue that it was because the media wasn't covering the story that pressure was put on the US government, or you could argue that because of increased awareness of the story, political pressure was put on the government. Pick the one most likely. I'm not projecting. So, we didn't know the numbers as it was happening ? I thought we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'm not projecting. So, we didn't know the numbers as it was happening ? I thought we did. See myth # 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) There have been two basic models of wealth distribution used over the past hundred years - central ownership and planning, and individual ownership, i.e. capitalism. Although on paper it seems easy to solve poverty, Communism was the system more concerned with evening out distribution and it failed. Communism is a dictatorship. I still believe in democracy, I'm not the biggest fan of our current democracy. We should be electing ideas not people, ideas are bulletproof. What you're saying is beautiful poetry, but it's another thing to initiate policy. John Lennon spoke about peace, and as popular as he was, and as successful as his message was I'd say we're in a similar position with peace as well. John Lennon does sing one of my favourite songs "Imagine". And it really is easy to initiate policy, all it takes is a choice. "I'd say we're in a similar position with peace as well." I'm not to sure what you mean by this. Communism is your best bet, but then again Communist countries had poor environmental records too. Open societies could hold their corporations up to scrutiny, but those corporations influenced policy to get out of compliance.Suggest a better system. All these current models are still based on money. I think money is the problem. I understand what money has done for us up until now, but we have gone to far with it. It is Profit before People now. Millions are dieing for monetary reasons, it isn't worth it. This is a pretty good system. What are these videos but fear mongering, propaganda fueled exercises in emotionality ? I guess it is how you perceive 'em. There's enough evil in the world already, even without the conspiracy kind. Evil comes from laziness, lack of empathy, and misunderstanding and mistrust. Mistrust, as in the kind of mistrust you display for the governments of the west. Evil comes from Fear. You can't dismiss every conspiracy. Love is our proton, fear is our electron. Every decision anyone makes comes down to Love or Fear. Life isn't as complicating as we make it out to be. I have mistrust for the western governments because look at what they are doing. We are starting Wars. We are killing for power and profit(greed). Can you do me a favour? Listen to these 4 songs and tell me what you think? maybe look up the lyrics as well. Sum41 "No Reason" Sum41 "We're all to Blame" Muse "Uprising" Muse "Unnatural Selection" I think everyone can agree there are problems with how the world works. For some reason we don't seem to realize it is us who creates these problems. Most problems are symptoms of society and yes the Ruling Class more or less controls society. I'm gonna say it again, they use fear to control us. Love is our resistance. People like Bush_Chaney have to realize there is no difference between a Canadian and American, or any one else on the world. We are the same. Rush "And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start, to mold a new reality closer to the heart". It really is a choice between Love and Fear. We have to know our enemy, believe me, our enemy is not Al Qaeda... Edited December 23, 2009 by maple_leafs182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'm not projecting. So, we didn't know the numbers as it was happening ? I thought we did. When do we ever know the numbers as it was happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 John Lennon does sing one of my favourite songs "Imagine". And it really is easy to initiate policy, all it takes is a choice. John lennon preached his communist vision from the back seat of a Rolls Royce Phanton V. I think everyone can agree there are problems with how the world works. For some reason we don't seem to realize it is us who creates these problems. Most problems are symptoms of society and yes the Ruling Class more or less controls society. I'm gonna say it again, they use fear to control us. Love is our resistance. You mean the kind who drive around in a chauffered Rolls or Bentley? People like Bush_Chaney have to realize there is no difference between a Canadian and American, or any one else on the world. We are the same. Yea....just like sea lions and sardines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 i like sardines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 i like sardines So do sea lions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Ashley Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Is a bad education system the other element? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Is a bad education system the other element? No...that's more of a value judgement. Did Pre-Columbian Americans have a "good" education system to keep population in check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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