Harper to prorogue parliament AGAIN?

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe Harper shouldn't be such a liar and a hypocrite.

Has PM Harper not been successful ? Why should he change a winning formula, no matter how you may characterise it from the losing corner.

[nicky10013]

Has PM Harper not been successful ? Why should he change a winning formula, no matter how you may characterise it from the losing corner.

Oh I'm praying he keeps on doing what he's doing. The more he's off work, the easier it makes it for the opposition. It's been successful thus far, but a people can only take so much of their government taking 3 months off.

[nicky10013]

So your changing now from all of the conservative caucus to just the prime minister?

Didn't I just say that he is the entirety of the caucus? That all statements are made come from him? Or are we conveniently forgetting facts that aren't flattering to your side of the argument?

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh I'm praying he keeps on doing what he's doing. The more he's off work, the easier it makes it for the opposition. It's been successful thus far, but a people can only take so much of their government taking 3 months off.

That remains to be seen....they could take only so much of the Liberal Adscam stench which still lingers to this day.

The opposition can't even find itself, let alone effectively target PM Harper. They will need the time off.

[Alta4ever]

Didn't I just say that he is the entirety of the caucus? That all statements are made come from him? Or are we conveniently forgetting facts that aren't flattering to your side of the argument?

So the the conservative caucus is one member? I wonder who all those mps are sitting on the government side of the house, I wonder who the Mps were that were making statements at the end of QP over the last 4 years?

[nicky10013]

That remains to be seen....they could take only so much of the Liberal Adscam stench which still lingers to this day.

The opposition can't even find itself, let alone effectively target PM Harper. They will need the time off.

Yeah I kind of agree with that. I wish the Liberals had a red book out and some policies we could throw around, but like I said the minute the platform comes out, the next day Harper and his gang will come out with 4 attack ads.

Every time Harper takes time off work voter apathy disappears just a little bit. The more people wake up, the more people forget about adscam and focus on the fact that Harper is just as bad as the Liberals once were. Everything in politics is a gamble but frankly the government has given the opposition MORE than enough ammo. It all comes down to the campaign and who can orate the better ideals. It almost seems as though the Conservatives are out of ideas. The last campaign they ran without a platform. They called it themselves and then just argued we needed to change nothing. The last major initiative was stimulus which was forced down their throat by the opposition. What would they run on now? They can't cut taxes, they can't come out for spending cuts and the country is turning against Afghanistan. For all it's worth both good and bad the next one is all on Ignatieff. He's a professor, from some of the stuff we've seen in terms of direction of the party, he's going in the right direction. We'll just see if the policy takes a tangible form which voters can actually understand.

The right in this country is deathly afraid of him because he's such a lofty academic. They're afraid of him because he reminds him of a certain black law professor with lofty ideas and an ability to communicate. It could go either way, but as I see it, the ball is in the Liberal's court to move forward. The only thing the government has been able to do is obfuscate as much as possible.

[nicky10013]

So the the conservative caucus is one member? I wonder who all those mps are sitting on the government side of the house, I wonder who the Mps were that were making statements at the end of QP over the last 4 years?

Statements that come from the PMO.

[Oleg Bach]

Congrats! Finally....a man born out of modernity...How did you manage to survive without being girlified? Okay...I'm not that funny today.

[nicky10013]

Congrats! Finally....a man born out of modernity...How did you manage to survive without being girlified? Okay...I'm not that funny today.

No, it was a little bit funny.

[Alta4ever]

The last campaign they ran without a platform. They called it themselves and then just argued we needed to change nothing.

Not exactly true the platform comes form the grassroots in the conservative party and the National Policy convention was scheduled in November a month after the election when the members decided what the updated party platform would be be. The policy book is on the website you should read it.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Alta4ever

[cybercoma]

It's probably been mentioned to death in this thread, but I wanted to go down as saying this is utterly shameful behaviour on the part of Stephen Harper. A PM ought not to prorogue parliament every time his government gets into hot water. I seem to recall him dragging Chretien over the coals for trying to prorogue parliament during the sponsorship scandal. Now, Harper has prorogued parliament for the second time. Although it's completely within his prerogative to do so, it's shameful and flies in the face of the ideals of responsible government and accountability.

[Alta4ever]

It's probably been mentioned to death in this thread, but I wanted to go down as saying this is utterly shameful behaviour on the part of Stephen Harper. A PM ought not to prorogue parliament every time his government gets into hot water. I seem to recall him dragging Chretien over the coals for trying to prorogue parliament during the sponsorship scandal. Now, Harper has prorogued parliament for the second time. Although it's completely within his prerogative to do so, it's shameful and flies in the face of the ideals of responsible government and accountability.

I wonder what you would have though of the Liberals doing it after the winter session was 50 seconds in, just before the opposition leader stands up to speak.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The right in this country is deathly afraid of him because he's such a lofty academic. They're afraid of him because he reminds him of a certain black law professor with lofty ideas and an ability to communicate. It could go either way, but as I see it, the ball is in the Liberal's court to move forward. The only thing the government has been able to do is obfuscate as much as possible.

Forget about the right....centrists are even more afraid of what they don't know. PM Harper is a known quantity, has none of academic baggage and associated milquetoast personality seen in Dion. Setting up reluctant Canadian Mr. Ignatieff as the the Great White Obama to try and catch lightning striking twice has failed miserably. Hell, even Obama has lost his shine from across the fence.

[nicky10013]

Not exactly true the platform comes form the grassroots in the conservative party and the National Policy convention was scheduled in November a month after the election when the members decided what the updated party platform would be be. The policy book is on the website you should read it.

Well how arrogant is it that the party wouldn't move up its policy convention for a FEDERAL ELECTION? That's essentially Harper telling Canadians, "meh, you don't deserve to know until AFTER we win."

[Alta4ever]

Well how arrogant is it that the party wouldn't move up its policy convention for a FEDERAL ELECTION? That's essentially Harper telling Canadians, "meh, you don't deserve to know until AFTER we win."

The election was called the beginning of September after harper consulted with the other party leaders, the venue the delgates and the preparation for the convention was done before Aug.

[nicky10013]

Forget about the right....centrists are even more afraid of what they don't know. PM Harper is a known quantity, has none of academic baggage and associated milquetoast personality seen in Dion. Setting up reluctant Canadian Mr. Ignatieff as the the Great White Obama to try and catch lightning striking twice has failed miserably. Hell, even Obama has lost his shine from across the fence.

I don't even think he tried to set himself up as the white Obama. I think people in the party did and you're right, it hasn't worked very well because he simply can't get TV time. That being said the Conservatives are more frightened of him beccause he's just that more intelligible. We'll see which way he goes policy wise but he wants a strong green policy which is always popular here and wants to open up to India and China which Harper has been reluctant to do for 4 years now.

As for the centrists, most centrists in the party are for Ignatieff, it's the left wing of the party that's scared. The centre of the Liberal party being just to the left of the political centre in Canada shifts from left to right. Under Martin and Dion it was decidedly to the left. With Ignatieff it's gone back to the right and some people just aren't happy about it. By all accounts if it was a straight up or down vote he would've been the leader instead of Dion. Since the Liberals go the convention route and elect delegates, the two left candidates put their support dion and the guy in 3rd place suddenly won the convention. Why people are scared I've got no idea. The guy believes in fiscal responsibility and social progressiveness just like every other leader.

As for Obama, I agree. He's lost his shine, but not a lot of Canadians pay attention to US news. I wouldn't be surprised if his approval rating here is close to the high he was at on election day.

[nicky10013]

The election was called the beginning of September after harper consulted with the other party leaders, the venue the delgates and the preparation for the convention was done before Aug.

So? He should've provided a platform. You just don't call an election the week before. He came up with some lame excuse that parliament wasn't working when it was his party obstructing committees. This was in the plan for months. That should've been taken into account when he set the convention date.

[Alta4ever]

So? He should've provided a platform. You just don't call an election the week before. He came up with some lame excuse that parliament wasn't working when it was his party obstructing committees. This was in the plan for months. That should've been taken into account when he set the convention date.

Really o so high a mighty. Maybe the party was running on its record as government for eighteen months maybe the parties constitution dictates the schedule of such conventions.

Like I said maybe you should read the policy book and constitution of the conservative party you might find it enlightening since it was written and approved by grassroots something the liberals haven't seen in a long time.

The reason why I lean conservative is because of how that book was written and its contents, and that the government has actually acted on those policies.

When I see that they are ignoring it, or it becomes something other then a grassroots policy book, I will re evaluate my voting support of the party, like I did with the provincial tories 3 years ago.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't even think he tried to set himself up as the white Obama. I think people in the party did and you're right, it hasn't worked very well because he simply can't get TV time...

True enough, but he still fell into the cult of personality trap. Never believe your own hype.

As for Obama, I agree. He's lost his shine, but not a lot of Canadians pay attention to US news. I wouldn't be surprised if his approval rating here is close to the high he was at on election day.

Depends on the issue....Canadians paid plenty of attention to the last American election cycle and torrents of media spin. Ignatieff was thrust into the leadership position after Dion got the hook in the hope that Obama's coat tails extended across the border (just because they may have shared the same rest room at Harvard).

Going negative (Harper = Bush) doesn't help much either....Bush is long gone.

Going green didn't mean squat to Chretien/Martin, so it hardly rallies the troops today in the middle of an economic recovery.

[nicky10013]

True enough, but he still fell into the cult of personality trap. Never believe your own hype.

Depends on the issue....Canadians paid plenty of attention to the last American election cycle and torrents of media spin. Ignatieff was thrust into the leadership position after Dion got the hook in the hope that Obama's coat tails extended across the border (just because they may have shared the same rest room at Harvard).

Going negative (Harper = Bush) doesn't help much either....Bush is long gone.

Going green didn't mean squat to Chretien/Martin, so it hardly rallies the troops today in the middle of an economic recovery.

All good points.

Though, just because Bush is long gone doesn't mean people still don't hate the guy. There have been a lot of comparisons in the papers recently and that's gotta sting for a party calling the leader of the opposition American.

Going green is rallying the base because the base is frankly different than it was in the 90s and different than it was under Martin. The environment has become the 2nd leading issue behind health care. People do care about it up here. Now, with the recovery coming along and Harper's horrible performance in Copenhagen, it could be a good time to branch out and reveal some green policies.

I think Canadians paid attention to the election cycle because no matter where you go its always a big deal. There's another election coming up next year but that's a long way off and there's not much happening right now. Health care is still working its way through the senate and house and until there's an announcement on that it's all quiet on the southern front.

[bush_cheney2004]

Though, just because Bush is long gone doesn't mean people still don't hate the guy. There have been a lot of comparisons in the papers recently and that's gotta sting for a party calling the leader of the opposition American.

But they are just repeating the same mistakes, making comparisons to Americans. That will not translate into more LPC riding victories. "Stinging" in this way is just more rope-a-dope while PM Harper quietly consolidates gains with policies that are "harmonized" with reality.

Going green is rallying the base because the base is frankly different than it was in the 90s and different than it was under Martin. The environment has become the 2nd leading issue behind health care. People do care about it up here. Now, with the recovery coming along and Harper's horrible performance in Copenhagen, it could be a good time to branch out and reveal some green policies.

Oh sure...after the EI pot is sweetened. Layton and May have dropped off the radar....even Taliban Jack and Video Professor jokes are in the distant past. Environmentalists may think that their cause is #2, but people vote for their wallets first.

Dion's carbon tax fiasco is evidence enough for that.

I think Canadians paid attention to the election cycle because no matter where you go its always a big deal. There's another election coming up next year but that's a long way off and there's not much happening right now. Health care is still working its way through the senate and house and until there's an announcement on that it's all quiet on the southern front.

Not really...there is more churn today that threatens a Democrat super majority in the Senate. American politics is a train wreck that Canadians refuse to ignore based on posts to this forum. Can't explain it, but it does get very cold and very boring in the winter!

[nicky10013]

But they are just repeating the same mistakes, making comparisons to Americans. That will not translate into more LPC riding victories. "Stinging" in this way is just more rope-a-dope while PM Harper quietly consolidates gains with policies that are "harmonized" with reality.

Oh sure...after the EI pot is sweetened. Layton and May have dropped off the radar....even Taliban Jack and Video Professor jokes are in the distant past. Environmentalists may think that their cause is #2, but people vote for their wallets first.

Dion's carbon tax fiasco is evidence enough for that.

Not really...there is more churn today that threatens a Democrat super majority in the Senate. American politics is a train wreck that Canadians refuse to ignore based on posts to this forum. Can't explain it, but it does get very cold and very boring in the winter!

Again, all good points. Though, I have to counter with the argument that you have NO idea how many elections have been won by calling opponents Americans. It was Trudeau's main weapon. Furthermore, it isn't evevn the Liberals putting this out. It's independent op-ed journalists jabbing them. It does allow for the Liberals to focus on policy.

I agree, people do vote with their walltes first. However, the plan may not even come in the form of a carbon tax. It could be a cap and trade system which politicians would have a hard time attacking.

Yeah, I've heard those threats. Dodd resigned and apparently some jerk from North Dakota or wherever the hell ever that has 3 people is resigning and the seat is looking to go Republican. Like I've always been saying, elections are there to win or lose. I guess we'll see what happens. However, I have to say that I'm finally happy that a Canadian politics story is at least getting more coverage here than US politics after Obama. As much as the guy speaks to me as a politician which is more than I can say for anyone else (I actually went out and campaigned for the guy, despite how sick I'm sure it'll make you knowing that), it's refreshing not to see him everywhere. The only problem is the depressing situations. Imagine if Obama shut down congress? Fox news would be rallying people to arms to forcibly take over the government. I'm not in favour of that but hopefully it rallies just enough people to throw these bums out.

[bush_cheney2004]

Again, all good points. Though, I have to counter with the argument that you have NO idea how many elections have been won by calling opponents Americans. It was Trudeau's main weapon. Furthermore, it isn't evevn the Liberals putting this out. It's independent op-ed journalists jabbing them. It does allow for the Liberals to focus on policy.

Fine....how has it worked so far? If it was a winning strategy, PM Harper would not still be residing at 24 Sussex Drive.

That's all I'm saying....the American bogeyman schtick doesn't work for Liberal stiffs.

I agree, people do vote with their walltes first. However, the plan may not even come in the form of a carbon tax. It could be a cap and trade system which politicians would have a hard time attacking.

It's already being called "Cap and Tax".

....However, I have to say that I'm finally happy that a Canadian politics story is at least getting more coverage here than US politics after Obama. As much as the guy speaks to me as a politician which is more than I can say for anyone else (I actually went out and campaigned for the guy, despite how sick I'm sure it'll make you knowing that), it's refreshing not to see him everywhere....

I agree 100%...it is absolutely pathetic how much Canadian bandwidth is dedicated to Obama and American media in general. It must be stifling. Forget about those goddamn Americans!

Edited January 7, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[nicky10013]

Fine....how has it worked so far? If it was a winning strategy, PM Harper would not still be residing at 24 Sussex Drive.

That's all I'm saying....the American bogeyman schtick doesn't work for Liberal stiffs.

It's already being called "Cap and Tax".

I agree 100%...it is absolutely pathetic how much Canadian bandwidth is dedicated to Obama and American media in general. It must be stifling. Forget about those goddamn Americans!

The Liberals haven't pushed the American thing in a while. The Conservatives have and Iggy has taken a blow. Go on the Globe and Mail website or the Star Website or Macleans and the biggest comment is that the traitor Iggy is just going to go back to Harvard after he loses. It's a far bigger deal here than you'd like to give credit to.

Cap and tax is kind of radical here. Not even the CPC would pull something like that here. A carbon tax? Sure, but most Canadians want action on the environment and to spin such an important issue so blatantly in such a partisan measure would meet with disaster. Sure the hardcore supporters would love it, but they'd really suffer in the general polls.

I wouldn't say Canada is totally dedicated to Obama bandwidth. I mean, in the end, Bush got just as much press but in a more negative light because frankly, he deserved it. Local Canadian news follows really big announcements and the online papers do the same. In the end, the US plays such a big role in the Canadian economy that it just has to be that way. For me at least, it's overhyped because for some reason my family loves CNN which has just turned into garbage and that's all I get on TV. It's awful. Honestly, when my family isn't in town if I need the news I just turn on the BBC to get a non-north american bias. Fox News has ruined everything. Everyone is so busy playing to the lowest common denominator to make more money from ad revenue that its trash. People love it, but Fox News proves that the market truly isn't a rational actor.

[Oleg Bach]

Fine....how has it worked so far? If it was a winning strategy, PM Harper would not still be residing at 24 Sussex Drive.

That's all I'm saying....the American bogeyman schtick doesn't work for Liberal stiffs.

It's already being called "Cap and Tax".

I agree 100%...it is absolutely pathetic how much Canadian bandwidth is dedicated to Obama and American media in general. It must be stifling. Forget about those goddamn Americans!

Spoken with a British accent..."I can not and will not forget those noble savages that live to the south - they are much to interesting to ignore"