Handguns in Canada

[dlkenny]

I was talking to a woman earlier this month who carries a handgun in her purse. I pointed out that this is illegal and she brushed off the comment, saying that it's better than getting raped. I suppose this is true and I started reading some statistics. Supposedly 25% of people in Canada own at least one gun and 2.3% carry a handgun.

I, myself am not opposed to possession provided that adequate handling, storage and licensing education has been taken, so I started asking people a question. If you could legally carry a handgun in Canada, would you do it? Women overwhelmingly said yes (63%), while men were divided on the issue (48%). I found this to be counterintuitive but it turns out that men are more likely to own a gun, while women are more likely to carry a gun.

This lead to a couple of ideas, specifically that acquisition should be more strictly controlled and ownership should be relaxed where certain criteria is met. Currently, a person only needs to take a 2 day course to own a handgun in Canada and it's my opinion that while people can be brought up to speed on laws surrounding firearm ownership in 2 days, it's not enough to just teach someone the laws. There are values associated with firearm ownership, along with safe useage, handling and storage of their firearms that need to be taught along with the laws.

I read a statistic supporting the Gun Registry saying that 44% of gun crimes in Canada are committed with legally purchased firearms. This doesn't mean that the person who bought the gun committed that crime, it means that it's been acquired and used in an illegal and unethical fashion. The problem is that the said firearm owners either didn't care or didn't comply with existing firearms legislation because if the law was followed properly it would be incredibly difficult for an unauthorized person to become in possession of a legal firearm. Bans and legislation alone do little to curb violence and only proper training can instill the values needed to be a truly safe firearm owner.

The solution then lies with proper tactical training in an intensive environment. That training should also include dispute management, hand to hand (unarmed) self defense techniques, as well as proper usage, handling and storage of firearms. This type of training would allow more widespread ownership of handguns and would serve to teach the values needed to keep our society safe. These types of courses already exist and I personally see no reason not to utilize them. I don't believe in incriminating people for wanting to defend themselves, instead maybe we should look at teaching people the skills they need to effectively defend themselves without placing greater society in harms way.

[M.Dancer]

A citation of those quoted stats would be nice...

A handgun in your purse is a hidden reward for a purse snatcher.

[lictor616]

I was talking to a woman earlier this month who carries a handgun in her purse. I pointed out that this is illegal and she brushed off the comment, saying that it's better than getting raped. I suppose this is true and I started reading some statistics. Supposedly 25% of people in Canada own at least one gun and 2.3% carry a handgun.

I, myself am not opposed to possession provided that adequate handling, storage and licensing education has been taken, so I started asking people a question. If you could legally carry a handgun in Canada, would you do it? Women overwhelmingly said yes (63%), while men were divided on the issue (48%). I found this to be counterintuitive but it turns out that men are more likely to own a gun, while women are more likely to carry a gun.

This lead to a couple of ideas, specifically that acquisition should be more strictly controlled and ownership should be relaxed where certain criteria is met. Currently, a person only needs to take a 2 day course to own a handgun in Canada and it's my opinion that while people can be brought up to speed on laws surrounding firearm ownership in 2 days, it's not enough to just teach someone the laws. There are values associated with firearm ownership, along with safe useage, handling and storage of their firearms that need to be taught along with the laws.

I read a statistic supporting the Gun Registry saying that 44% of gun crimes in Canada are committed with legally purchased firearms. This doesn't mean that the person who bought the gun committed that crime, it means that it's been acquired and used in an illegal and unethical fashion. The problem is that the said firearm owners either didn't care or didn't comply with existing firearms legislation because if the law was followed properly it would be incredibly difficult for an unauthorized person to become in possession of a legal firearm. Bans and legislation alone do little to curb violence and only proper training can instill the values needed to be a truly safe firearm owner.

The solution then lies with proper tactical training in an intensive environment. That training should also include dispute management, hand to hand (unarmed) self defense techniques, as well as proper usage, handling and storage of firearms. This type of training would allow more widespread ownership of handguns and would serve to teach the values needed to keep our society safe. These types of courses already exist and I personally see no reason not to utilize them. I don't believe in incriminating people for wanting to defend themselves, instead maybe we should look at teaching people the skills they need to effectively defend themselves without placing greater society in harms way.

your stats are incorrect, about only 9 to 11% of gun crime a year are homicides, and out of these 90% are performed with black market guns (unregistered of course)... the rest are traces of domestic disputes and other unfortunate circumstances... that add up to roughly 4 to 10 deaths a year...

hardly a "problem".

Actually guns probably have a great deal to do with keeping the crime rate down..

as we should remember, in Australia, after their insane and crypto communist gun banning on 1999:

"According to the Service station armed robbery in Australia paper released today by the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) there was a 31 percent increase in the number of service station armed robberies between 2004-06, continuing a trend which during the 1990s saw the incidence of such robberies increase by 214 percent."

http://www.aic.gov.au/media/2009/july/20090716.aspx

OBSERVABLE FACT, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%

Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)

In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%

Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)

Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)

There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly

At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm"

From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.

The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions

The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has risen to 112,000, a 200% increase, in response to the ban and as an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected.

Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/aus.html

[Mr.Canada]

We need concealed carry licenses here in Canada. That would cut down on crime. If the minority gangs knew that people could be packing legally they'd think twice about mugging someone or robbing a store.

[Shwa]

"If the minority gangs knew that people could be packing legally they'd think twice about mugging someone or robbing a store. "

Or maybe they wouldn't think twice about killing someone before a mugging or shooting the store owner before robbing the store. Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime?

[lictor616]

"If the minority gangs knew that people could be packing legally they'd think twice about mugging someone or robbing a store. "

Or maybe they wouldn't think twice about killing someone before a mugging or shooting the store owner before robbing the store. Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime?

the most gun filled and @conceal and carry@ states conspicuously always have the lowest gun crime rates.

[Shwa]

I didn't ask if they have "lowest" crime rates, I asked if concealment ~cut down~ crime rates? Do you have the data for that?

And, while we are at it - since we are talking crime rates in Canada - how would that reduced violent crime rate compare with a similar statistic area in Canada?

[lictor616]

I didn't ask if they have "lowest" crime rates, I asked if concealment ~cut down~ crime rates? Do you have the data for that?

And, while we are at it - since we are talking crime rates in Canada - how would that reduced violent crime rate compare with a similar statistic area in Canada?

well theres the glaring Australian example that you incredibly avoided... how could you have skipped over it?>

my guess is that its pointless to argue with you since all you do is reject out of hand...

[Guest TrueMetis]

well theres the glaring Australian example that you incredibly avoided... how could you have skipped over it?>

my guess is that its pointless to argue with you since all you do is reject out of hand...

Correlation does not imply causation lictor.

Edited November 1, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Shwa]

"Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime?"

"well theres the glaring Australian example that you incredibly avoided"

Are you daft or something? I asked about the US and you go on about some irrelevant statistics from Oz? Who the heck gives a crap about Oz?

And those Ozzy stats don't even answer my question in the first place about concealment!

Good grief dude if you are going to say it is impossible to argue with me, at least man up and admit that it is because of your lacking and not mine. If you can't keep up, let us know and we'll type s-l-o-w-e-r f-o-r y-o-u.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Are you daft or something? I asked about the US and you go on about some irrelevant statistics from Oz? Who the heck gives a crap about Oz?

Canada is not the USA, which has declining crime rates for several reasons. Concealed carry is now legal in some form in 48 states.

[wulf42]

People should allowed to be armed..........there are a lot of scumballs out there and

people should have the right to self defense!

[Shwa]

"Canada is not the USA"

Let me guess: geography major right?

Can you answer my question Mr. Bush Cheney 2004; do you have the comparative statistical data that we might tease out a small bit of wisdom in our efforts to determine weather legal gun concealment in Canada will actually lower crime rates?

Here, let me restate the question for clarity:

Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime and how would that reduced violent crime rate compare with a similar statistic area in Canada?

Thanks bud!

[lictor616]

"Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime?"

"well theres the glaring Australian example that you incredibly avoided"

Are you daft or something? I asked about the US and you go on about some irrelevant statistics from Oz? Who the heck gives a crap about Oz?

And those Ozzy stats don't even answer my question in the first place about concealment!

Good grief dude if you are going to say it is impossible to argue with me, at least man up and admit that it is because of your lacking and not mine. If you can't keep up, let us know and we'll type s-l-o-w-e-r f-o-r y-o-u.

irrelevant? The example is EXTREMELY relevant to us canadians since Australia is so similar to us in so many critical ways.

and gun crime stats in the states are what they are greatly do to minority involvement... MS13 bloods crips etc who get their guns from the blackmarket anyway... and so the vast majority of the gun laws in place in the states don<t affect them.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Here, let me restate the question for clarity:

Does gun concealment in the US cut down on crime and how would that reduced violent crime rate compare with a similar statistic area in Canada?

Thanks bud!

Who gives a shit...it's not Canada. I have already communicated in 6th grade English that US crime rates are down for a variety of reasons and it is very difficult to parse the contribution from concealed carry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_car...y_laws_on_crime

[lictor616]

Correlation does not imply causation lictor.

except in this case it has... robbers know that the chances that people are armed are virtually nill... so you get skyrocketing rates of knife holdups, guns holdups too...

only a moron would say that such drastic increases are not correlated at all to the fact that the means of defense for Australian citizens are not terribly compelling or particularly good deterrents.

Edited November 1, 2009 by lictor616

[Guest TrueMetis]

except in this case it has... robbers know that the chances that people are armed are virtually nill... so you get skyrocketing rates of knife holdups, guns holdups too...

only a moron would say that such drastic increases are not correlated at all to the fact that the means of defense for Australian citizens are not terribly compelling or particularly good deterrents.

Read the Wiki article BC2004 linked. You can't say more guns equal more/less crimes and you can't say no guns mean more/less crimes because there is no evidence one way or the other.

Edited November 1, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Shwa]

irrelevant? The example is EXTREMELY relevant to us canadians since Australia is so similar to us in so many critical ways.

and gun crime stats in the states are what they are greatly do to minority involvement... MS13 bloods crips etc who get their guns from the blackmarket anyway... and so the vast majority of the gun laws in place in the states don<t affect them.

Duu-uuh - Oz is not so similar in more important ways and that is they don't have the USA (which is not Canada by the way) immediately to their south. You know, the USA with the crips and the MS13 and the blackmarket guns, etc. Read Mr Bush Cheney 2004's response. His view almost completely opposes yours. I am going to go with his because he has the honesty to make a simple observation.

Thanks! (and next time leave Oz out of things because no one cares about Oz unless they are taking a vacation there)

[M.Dancer]

well theres the glaring Australian example that you incredibly avoided... how could you have skipped over it?>

my guess is that its pointless to argue with you since all you do is reject out of hand...

Because skewed Australian stats are so much lile the States...

BTW it pointless to argue with you too,,,,,since you are a purveyor of filth.

[M.Dancer]

Who gives a shit...it's not Canada. I have already communicated in 6th grade English that US crime rates are down for a variety of reasons and it is very difficult to parse the contribution from concealed carry.

Ed Zachery.

Lets start another nonsense thread based on some anecdotal observation....

[M.Dancer]

... robbers know that the chances that people are armed are virtually nill

only a moron would say that.

poor lictor...

[Shwa]

Mr. Canada wrote: "We need concealed carry licenses here in Canada. That would cut down on crime."

Mr Bush Cheney 2004 wrote: "it is very difficult to parse the contribution from concealed carry."

So now there is the best answer for Mr. Canada's statement now isn't it? The answer is difficult, if not impossible to parse, so there is no proof that legal gun concealment would cut down on crime in Canada. I asked for the comparative statistic from the US to Canada to illustrate on a general basis that since our violent crime rate is somewhat lower in Canada, that status quo is likely the best course for this issue.

Thanks Mr Bush Cheney 2004!

ps - and I think you are doing just fine with the grade 6 English, I understood it perfectly well. You should look to upgrading your grade level - there are many on-line resources to help you get a high school equivalency in English and it's not such a stigma anymore. Good luck!

[bush_cheney2004]

...So now there is the best answer for Mr. Canada's statement now isn't it? The answer is difficult, if not impossible to parse, so there is no proof that legal gun concealment would cut down on crime in Canada. I asked for the comparative statistic from the US to Canada to illustrate on a general basis that since our violent crime rate is somewhat lower in Canada, that status quo is likely the best course for this issue.

Not so fast...as your general assertion is just as likely uncorrelated at best, and irrelevant at worst. The verisimilitude of contrary or favorable conclusions cannot be determined.

ps - and I think you are doing just fine with the grade 6 English, I understood it perfectly well. You should look to upgrading your grade level - there are many on-line resources to help you get a high school equivalency in English and it's not such a stigma anymore. Good luck!

I'm just glad to provide you with a ready made nation of 300 million to help you find your way on this and any number of issues.

[Topaz]

Why don't more people take martial arts, its alot safer than carrying a gun and you can do just as much damage without killing anyone. Women especially should learn this and if the RCMP had used this on the Polish man, he would have been alive today.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why don't more people take martial arts, its alot safer than carrying a gun and you can do just as much damage without killing anyone. Women especially should learn this and if the RCMP had used this on the Polish man, he would have been alive today.

Because we want to kill them.