punked Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 They had to, because their companies were going bankrupt. However, up until that point, before they had no choice, GM was the largest private purchaser of Viagra. And boner medication added $1500 per car to the total cast of a vehicle. I'll kindly ask you again to stop lying. Toyota doesn't have the same costs as GM. And Toyota won't have the same legacy/retirement costs as GM, because Toyota isn't bound by the same pension obligations as GM. Cut the lying crap. And to further illustrate my point, in 2007, General Motors sold more cars than Toyota. GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles Now let's look at profit. GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car) Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car) Can you imagine outselling a competitor by 4000 vehicles, but losing $36 billion dollars? While your competitor earns $17 billion? Thank you UAW/CAW. In 2007 Gm has 300,000 pensioners in the US and Toyota had 50. Yes please compare these companies because Toyota has a comprehensive pension plan and in 25 years is going to see the same costs as GM does now. The problem isn't the cost of workers now it was their was no planning for the Future. GM always thought they would grow the same as the population so they planned that way and when a new company grabbed market share their bisuness model fell apart. It has nothing to do with the Union and everything to do with the short sightedness of the managers of the company. Good try though Shady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 In 2007 Gm has 300,000 pensioners in the US and Toyota had 50. LOL. So you expect us to believe that a company started in the 1930's has only 50 people recieving pensions? Puuuuulease. Take your UAW/CAW spin somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 LOL. So you expect us to believe that a company started in the 1930's has only 50 people recieving pensions? Puuuuulease. Take your UAW/CAW spin somewhere else. Toyota's US branch started production in the US in 1986 you might want to get your facts straight. Their workers earn almost the exact same as UAW members, the problem is two fold pension and Health care. Health care is an easy fix if people like you would get out of the way and let health care reform go through. The Pensions are harder but because Toyota US should have 25000-50000 pensioners in 25-50 years as opposed to the 50 they have now the problem will catch them as well. BTW I was wrong GM has 432,000 pensioners to Toyotas 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 And boner medication added $1500 per car to the total cast of a vehicle. That's not true. Your own boldface cite said it was the cost of health care in total, not just the cost of Viagra. Once again, you're either lying or you don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should take your own advice when you say: Cut the lying crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Toyota's US branch started production in the US in 1986 you might want to get your facts straight. Toyota's first US production was at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA (joint venture with GM) starting in 1984....if you want your facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Toyota's first US production was at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA (joint venture with GM) starting in 1984....if you want your facts straight. Take it up with NPR maybe you can write them a strongly worded letter. http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/ Although to be fair they been in Canada sense 1983. Edited November 14, 2009 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Take it up with NPR maybe you can write them a strongly worded letter. Oh goody....you're both wrong! And delicious as you scolded another to get facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Oh goody....you're both wrong! And delicious as you scolded another to get facts straight. Yah being off by a year is the same as being off by 56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Oh goody....you're both wrong! And delicious as you scolded another to get facts straight. Uh...he's the one with a source. I'm still not convinced NPR is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Uh...he's the one with a source. I'm still not convinced NPR is wrong. He is right in one way although because we are arguing about UAW workers and all the workers at NUMMI were UAW his point falls flat. Toyota didn't really open their first plant in the US under Toyota practices until 1986 that would be the year I would count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Uh...he's the one with a source. I'm still not convinced NPR is wrong. Go buy a used 1985 Chevrolet Nova....open the rusty hood...and look at the engine. Same as the Toyota Sprinter. 1985-1988 Nova. In 1985 the Nova name was applied to a rebadged Toyota Sprinter, an upmarket version of the Toyota Corolla that replaced the Citation and was produced at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California, as an historic first joint venture between General Motors and Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Go buy a used 1985 Chevrolet Nova....open the rusty hood...and look at the engine. Same as the Toyota Sprinter. 1985-1988 Nova. In 1985 the Nova name was applied to a rebadged Toyota Sprinter, an upmarket version of the Toyota Corolla that replaced the Citation and was produced at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California, as an historic first joint venture between General Motors and Toyota. All with Unionized employees right Bush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 He is right in one way although because we are arguing about UAW workers and all the workers at NUMMI were UAW his point falls flat. Toyota didn't really open their first plant in the US under Toyota practices until 1986 that would be the year I would count. Wrong again...the whole point of NUMMI was for GM to learn lean manufacturing and Toyota to get a US plant in the joint venture. What you would count doesn't count for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Wrong again...the whole point of NUMMI was for GM to learn lean manufacturing and Toyota to get a US plant in the joint venture. What you would count doesn't count for anything. So you would use NUMMI as the example for the Toyota operation? Good to hear, Toyota is succeeding under Union conditions BC said so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) So you would use NUMMI as the example for the Toyota operation? Good to hear, Toyota is succeeding under Union conditions BC said so. You can stroke the unions and NDP on your own time....I just wanted to correct your glaring error. The NUMMI plant is now closed.....vote union YES (and lose your job). Edited November 14, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 You can stroke the unions and NDP on your own time....I just wanted to correct your glaring error. The NUMMI plant is now closed.....vote union YES (and lose your job). What a glaring error the plant is not closed. GM has pulled out but Toyota is still operating until March 2010. Gee I can not believe BC you make such a glaring error of being off by a whole year on this closing of the plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 What a glaring error the plant is not closed. GM has pulled out but Toyota is still operating until March 2010. Gee I can not believe BC you make such a glaring error of being off by a whole year on this closing of the plant. Oh I can...it's fun to jerk your chain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 vote union YES (and lose your job). Exactly. And then look to the government to bail you out, because your contract is unsustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Exactly. And then look to the government to bail you out, because your contract is unsustainable. WAIT FOR WAIT FOR IT....................The Non Union car makers GOT BAIL OUTS TOO. It is the industry as it is now that is unsustainable not the unions. You could get rid of the unions and be in the same place as you are now, only with out unions. Shady would be happy we didn't address the real problem as people's jobs are lost. As long as they union jobs, or jobs of anyone who ever thought of being in a union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 As long as they union jobs, or jobs of anyone who ever thought of being in a union. I can see why people making $10 an hour would be jealous of union workers, who actually can support their families. But I don't understand the mentality of wanting to bring everyone down rather than wanting to improve your own situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Go buy a used 1985 Chevrolet Nova....open the rusty hood...and look at the engine. Same as the Toyota Sprinter. 1985-1988 Nova. In 1985 the Nova name was applied to a rebadged Toyota Sprinter, an upmarket version of the Toyota Corolla that replaced the Citation and was produced at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, California, as an historic first joint venture between General Motors and Toyota. You stay out of this.. LOL..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 So you would use NUMMI as the example for the Toyota operation? Good to hear, Toyota is succeeding under Union conditions BC said so. Do your research before you post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Do your research before you post... I did I posted my source NPR, because no considers NUMMI a Toyota shop it is Unionized, and was built by GM operated for 40 years with out Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) I did I posted my source NPR, because no considers NUMMI a Toyota shop it is Unionized, and was built by GM operated for 40 years with out Toyota. My Point is don't rely on one source. And quite frankly, I have numerous non union Toyota operations within 2 hours of me that have closed their doors and some of these operations pay as little as $11 to $17. Others that are closing pay much more and are also Non unionized Toyota owned or partnered. There is a few ill informed or idealogically driven people here who foolishly believe that Unions are behind GM troubles. If it were only that easy. Anyone who has had any serious dealings with GM at anytime, would know who runs the show, or more importantly, who isn't running the show. GM has huge egos, a huge ship, and is one of the slowest bureaucratic operations when it comes to changing directions or locating accountability. However, I will admit that GM is quick when it comes to litigation and threats. Seriously, regardless of anyones opinion of our American friend, even his dated service in the Automotive industry still provides a good insight of which much can still be applied to this day. The Automotive industry is a difficult business to shrink down into simply black and white, good and evil, aspects. Probably why some people choose to bash the workforce and ignore things like Nissan having their trucks built in the US by Chrysler IIRC. With regards to Toyotas numbers from 2007 you wonder how a company that lead the way two years ago went into its FIRST EVER deficit for a 70year old company in 2008. Edited November 15, 2009 by madmax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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