Sir Bandelot Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/10/30/c...anistan193.html A Canadian soldier who had spent less than a week in Afghanistan was killed Friday by an improvised explosive device while on foot patrol in Kandahar. Sapper Steven Marshall, 24, from 11 Field Squadron, 1 Combat Engineer Regiment, based in Edmonton, was patrolling 10 kilometres southwest of Kandahar City in the Panjwai district when the bomb exploded, Brig.-Gen. Jonathan Vance said. "Steven will be remembered as the life of his section. Vance said. "Having arrived in the theatre of operations less than a week ago, he was eager to get out and begin making a difference," Vance said. Lt. Justin Garrett Boyes, 26, was killed Wednesday when his foot patrol was hit by an IED southwest of Kandahar City. The latest death brings to 133 the total number of Canadian soldiers who have died as part of the Afghan mission since it began in 2002. ------- What a nice looking kid. He should be playing on my hockey team, not dead in some bleak dusty hell hole. Canadians are either oblivious or numb to this ongoing loss of lives. We might read the headline, feel a moments sadness, then shrug it off and get back to work. Their lives were lost for a political abstraction, that will never become reality. Meanwhile the leaders give fancy speeches and look the other way. And Obama has more meetings to talk about what Edited October 31, 2009 by Sir Bandelot Quote
Smallc Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Why? Because we went into the country to eliminate a threat to the western world. We stayed because creating a country that doesn't let the same people back in is hard....and those people need our help. Quote
Topaz Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Why? Because we went into the country to eliminate a threat to the western world. We stayed because creating a country that doesn't let the same people back in is hard....and those people need our help. Wait a minute. Those people had the Taliban running the country with the help from the west(USA) to fight the Russians and they went on governing, wiping out the opium, and it wasn't until the US oil companies wanted part of the action and they said no, did the west decided that OBL did 9/11 and the Tailban is sheltering so go into Afghansitan for two reasons to get OBL and drive out the Taliban and put in place a US friendly leader to help us with the oil and military center. The present government are crooks, former warlords, and this take over, which is what it is, can't happen, unless, NATO does it the same way it was done the first time. Why haven't they been able to do it AGAIN, leaves one wonder if they know what they are doing! Our guys were being slowly withdrawing out, Chretien never measnt for them to stay this long, but the Tory were elected and wanted them to stay as a favour to Harper's friend Bush! Quote
charter.rights Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Wait a minute. Those people had the Taliban running the country with the help from the west(USA) to fight the Russians and they went on governing, wiping out the opium, and it wasn't until the US oil companies wanted part of the action and they said no, did the west decided that OBL did 9/11 and the Tailban is sheltering so go into Afghansitan for two reasons to get OBL and drive out the Taliban and put in place a US friendly leader to help us with the oil and military center. The present government are crooks, former warlords, and this take over, which is what it is, can't happen, unless, NATO does it the same way it was done the first time. Why haven't they been able to do it AGAIN, leaves one wonder if they know what they are doing! Our guys were being slowly withdrawing out, Chretien never measnt for them to stay this long, but the Tory were elected and wanted them to stay as a favour to Harper's friend Bush! Funny...... (peculiar) In 11 days it will be Remembrance Day, when we honour veterans and soldiers that fought and died in previous wars and conflicts, against the tyranny of fascist and communist regimes. Today our soldiers - young men and women - are in Afghanistan trying to help the region. Two of our soldiers died this week (number 124 and 125) and no one hardly notices. We go on as if it is an everyday occurrence. Sure people will line the 401 when their bodies are dragged down the "Highway of Tears" (actually rename the Highway of Heroes), and then they will go home and the next day it will be business as usual. November 11, 2009. Who cares? Apathy and detachment are Canadian traits. And on the Day of Remembrance hoards of people will come out to cenotaphs and civic centres, line parade routes and wear a red poppy (ironic that those in the Afghanistan killing fields are defending the poppy fields) and listen to the solemn sound of The Last Call on a bugle. The next day it will be business as usual - bland, uninteresting and robotic - just the way we Canadians like it. Tell me....who is fighting against the apathetic regimes that are taking over our country? Edited October 31, 2009 by charter.rights Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
charter.rights Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Why? Because we went into the country to eliminate a threat to the western world. We stayed because creating a country that doesn't let the same people back in is hard....and those people need our help. Hogwash! Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Smallc Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 November 11, 2009. Who cares? You probably couldn't be more wrong. Don't pretend to know what all Canadians are thinking. Quote
madmax Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Why? Because we went into the country to eliminate a threat to the western world. We stayed because creating a country that doesn't let the same people back in is hard....and those people need our help. There has been a running thread on Afghanistan for as long as I have been on MLW. You answer to a short question is short, brief and unfortuneately, over simplistic. Everyone needs to go back and read through those threads. Then things will be as clear as mud. Quote
Smallc Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 There is a short simple answer. We know hy we went into Afghanistan and we should know why we're still there. Quote
eyeball Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 It seems the shorter and simpler the reason for going, the longer and more complex the reason for staying. I think the state is just making it up as it goes myself. It clearly doesn't have a clue. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
madmax Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 There is a short simple answer. We know hy we went into Afghanistan and we should know why we're still there. Funny. Afghanistan has a strong history of keeping out unwanteds. Stronger then any other nation. The history suggests it is easy to go in and painful to stay. Afghanistan has also been able to fight wars for 30 years consecutive. I am surprised to believe, that the country that is known for its self determination and ability to field armies through tribal alliances has been unable to do so with the prescence of a powerful western force after 8 years. The Taliban were able to control 90% of the country without a foreign prescence on the ground. The Taliban were routed as a government in 2001. And the population was to be thrilled by their removal. So thrilled that this independant country can't field an army. I talk to enough people going back and forth. Can't say that they agree with you. THey are only doing their job. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 ....Their lives were lost for a political abstraction, that will never become reality. Meanwhile the leaders give fancy speeches and look the other way. And Obama has more meetings to talk about what Welll, at least your expressed impotence is consistent.....from Bush to Obama. This is the most pathetic thing of all, and insults not only Canadian Forces, but the entire process for governance in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
madmax Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Welll, at least your expressed impotence is consistent.....from Bush to Obama. This is the most pathetic thing of all, and insults not only Canadian Forces, but the entire process for governance in Canada. And your point is.... Seriously.... Insulting the government is understood. The CF on the ground do as much and agree about the fancy speeches and BS. The only insult of CF I recall of recent came from Fox "news" Edited October 31, 2009 by madmax Quote
eyeball Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 If you want to see real potency as it relates to people's governance, give them the right and the duty to vote on whether they really want to send troops to die in their name. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 And your point is.... Seriously.... Insulting the government is understood. The CF on the ground do as much and agree about the fancy speeches and BS. The only insult of CF I recall of recent came from Fox "news" You know damn right well what my point is: Canada is in Afghanistan because of Canadian decisions and policies that transcend political partisanship. In fact, the decision was heralded as the mighty and moral alternative to Iraq. Every time I read whining about Bush...and now Obama...I will remind you of this. Own it.... and stop whining. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 If you want to see real potency as it relates to people's governance, give them the right and the duty to vote on whether they really want to send troops to die in their name. Oh great...this member wants to use fallen soldiers as pawns in his own political game. Good grief...... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 You know damn right well what my point is: Canada is in Afghanistan because of Canadian decisions and policies that transcend political partisanship. In fact, the decision was heralded as the mighty and moral alternative to Iraq.Every time I read whining about Bush...and now Obama...I will remind you of this. Own it.... and stop whining. I can't imagine anything that would transcend political partisanship better than holding a public referendum before deciding to go to war. Then the people would really own it don't you think? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Oh great...this member wants to use fallen soldiers as pawns in his own political game. Good grief...... Stop your whining. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 I can't imagine anything that would transcend political partisanship better than holding a public referendum before deciding to go to war. Then the people would really own it don't you think? No...I think some people would still whine, and/or call for another vote with each KIA report. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Topaz, it wasn't the Taliban who fought the USSR but the Mujahideen Afghanistan is a mountainous and barren country with strategic value to the US. Its difficult geography and isolated areas make it difficult to control, and these factors also make it an ideal place to recruit and train anti-US terrorists. It was invaded post 9'11 and we continue to stay there at the cost of hundreds of lives, just to keep the whole country from falling to terrorists and keep the oil flowing. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Stop your whining. Next you can have a vote for whining. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 No...I think some people would still whine, and/or call for another vote with each KIA report. So you really don't want people to own anything at all. You just like to whine about it if they do. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 So you really don't want people to own anything at all. You just like to whine about it if they do. ...and you don't want your current form of government to work whenever there is an issue that you disagree with. I'll bet you don't even vote! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted October 31, 2009 Report Posted October 31, 2009 Topaz, it wasn't the Taliban who fought the USSR but the MujahideenAfghanistan is a mountainous and barren country with strategic value to the US. Its difficult geography and isolated areas make it difficult to control, and these factors also make it an ideal place to recruit and train anti-US terrorists. It was invaded post 9'11 and we continue to stay there at the cost of hundreds of lives, just to keep the whole country from falling to terrorists and keep the oil flowing. The Taliban initially enjoyed enormous good will from Afghans weary of the corruption, brutality, and the incessant fighting of Mujahideen warlords. Two contrasting narratives explain the beginnings of the Taliban.[15] One is that the rape and murder of boys and girls from a family traveling to Kandahar or a similar outrage by Mujahideen bandits sparked Mullah Omar and his students to vow to rid Afghanistan of these criminals. The other is that the Pakistan-based truck shipping mafia known as the "Afghanistan Transit Trade" and their allies in the Pakistan government, trained, armed, and financed the Taliban to clear the southern road across Afghanistan to the Central Asian Republics of extortionate bandit gangs.Wikipedia We're trying to restore Afghanistan to what it was before the Taliban came on scene, apparently. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Sir Bandelot Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) As to my "impotence", when I say "leaders", that includes all of them in this alliance, Canada, Britain, France, Italy, USA, and other. I picked on Obama in particular, as there's been some talk lately about him dithering on the decision. There is no reason to wait on his decision, for the outcome of another corrupt Afghani election. I say he IS dithering. Mr. Bush would have made a decision much sooner. Probably, the WRONG one, but a decision no less. No decision is also the wrong one, in my view. But it probably wouldn't have saved these lads from being just another statistic. Next you can have a vote for whining. Well it's better than arguing about the stupid flu virus. Edited October 31, 2009 by Sir Bandelot Quote
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