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I read that there are around 1200 limousines ferrying delegates around Copenhagen ,and at least 140 private jets plus countless commercial flights required to get everybody there.

Will that put any curve into the famous hockey stick graph?

so why should that matter to you, you don't understand the science so it's of no consequence right, global warming isn't happening right? so private jets don't matter...got a problem with private jets tell your PM, he doesn't understand the science either...
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I think you've made it amply clear you believe NO climate science "denier" has any credence.

Which is part of the reason why you have none.

one can easily separate the "bloggers" from the real scientists... the credence applied to real scientists that bring forward challenges to the status quo can only reflect upon the weight of scientific opinion - from real scientists - applied toward those challenges. The credence applied to "bloggers" reflects upon what they say and how it stands up to the weight of scientific opinion - the overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion. In the case you highlight, Pliny's go-to blogger is famously known for her lack of scientific prowess - I gave 3 examples of same... she is also famously known to reflect the position of her employer - the link I provided for that employer speaks for itself.

certainly, feel free to come to the rescue of that skeptical/denier blogger - the one you feel has been so disparaged. She is a somewhat prolific commentator... you should have no difficulty in making a case for her. Godspeed, Sir Valiant!

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You have to look at the other side. i.e. what evidence exists that climate change would cause any deaths? I think you will find that nothing conclusive exists and many of the so-called consequences of climate change would occur anyways because of over population in some regions (i.e. if famine occurs is it really the result of climate change or too many poor people?)

There is none, however the risk is higher. These are 'unknown unknowns'. It doesn't matter if there is nothing conclusive, it's still risky.

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I'm suspicious.

Not because Al Gore is NOT a scientist.

That's true enough.

Not because of ClimateGate, though the

scandal maybe the tip of the iceberg.

Pun not intended but welcome.

I'm suspicious for one thing because there are climate (ice-core & tree ring) records going

back to the last ice-age.

Apparently there was Global Warming some 7-9000 years ago.

We couldn't blame humans for that.

Plants love and NEED CO2.

I'm suspicious because the earth's climate aand biosphere, and its miraculously complex

system of checks and balances and environmental stabilization dynamics are far more complex

than any mainframe CRAY supercomputers could handle.

Our best and most powerful computers can't even accurately predict weather forecasts months

in advance, and yet we are being told by media circles (CBC incl;uded) to take the hysterical 'Global Warming' polemics, masked by its ambivalent 'scientific' charts and esoterica, as gospel.

I don't think so.

Worse! Even IF the worse case scenarios were (hypothetically) to be true, the proposed "cures" may

be worse than the "disease".

We could end up crippling the botanical world on which we depend by our "GREEN" tinkering and so-called environmental problem solving, and that would be a darn side worse.

I enjoyed this post, dapatriot.

You've accurately encapsulated my point of view.

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and who refers to Suzuki as a expert on Climatology?...deniers point to the unqualified like Gore and Suzuki as experts they're not and they use non scientists like John Coleman as an expert denier and he's not...see the trend here... :rolleyes:

Just about everybody cites the works of Suzuki and Gore, wyly - even you. They should be entirely discredited if we are to follow your standards.

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There is none, however the risk is higher. These are 'unknown unknowns'. It doesn't matter if there is nothing conclusive, it's still risky.
Life is full of risk. Some risks we choose to ignore. Other risks we try to prevent. The discussion we should be having is about whether the cost of trying to prevent 'dangerous climate change' is worth it given:

1) We don't really know if it is going to happen.

2) Even if it does happen there may not be anything we could do now to prevent it.

3) The change will occur slowly enough to allow us to adapt.

The last point is something people forget. 50-100 years is a long time to prepare.

Edited by Riverwind
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thats true for spacesuits but again it's only temporary, even in hospitals you don't get pure O2...I looked up the plant thing, plants need both, if it's an either or situation, they die...everything is in balance that's evolution and we as well as plants have evolved to specific ratios...

Plants are more important than people, right?

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Life is full of risk. Some risks we choose to ignore. Other risks we try to prevent. The discussion we should be having is about whether the cost of trying to prevent 'dangerous climate change' is worth it given:

1) We don't really know if it is going to happen.

2) Even if it does happen there may not be anything we could do now to prevent it.

3) The change will occur slowly enough to allow us to adapt.

The last point is something people forget. 50-100 years is a long time to prepare.

I would add:

4) The change could be catastrophic

5) The change may be preventable

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Whatever you say.....just as long as it's all about Americans ! I was hoping that Canada would lead the New World Order from Superman's foreclosed Fortress of Solitude.

It's cold in the fortress today. It's as cold and ruthless as a successful aging Canadian banker. We do have a few New World Order guys up here..but unless you tell them what to do they are at a loss - personally - I will never give generous advice to these assholes ever again - why you ask? Simple - you do not do things for people that do nothing for you - it's simply a bad deal...and a fools game....YOU can keep Conrad - but I suggest that a little bit of snow boarding might give you the information that you need - but Lord Black will never sing - besides - America knows who the real movers and shakers are up here - and America knows they can not be trusted unless pressured - and America knows that they are BOSS! I know that - YOU know that - so lets try to get along.

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Let the rich clean the planet that they made dirty getting rich...as for China and Canada - Let them know that to much garbage is simply to much - maybe we should force the super powerful to go out with garbage bags and pick up trash - after all it was their companies that profited - time to put the rich to work - and then travel up the food chain....to the point that THEY relize they are responsible for this mess - not the poor - And I don't want to hear how the rich donated a billion bucks to the snowy owl fund..enough of that tripe!

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You're falling into exaggeration. That certainly isn't known, and in fact some of the claims by fear-mongers are extreme.

Extreme or not - messy behaviour and dumping of too much shit in our home called earth must be addressed.... got to run BC...enjoy - and don't be afraid to be a bit exaggerted in order to get things done - Canada per capita is a worse offender than America in regards to generating waste.

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4) The change could be catastrophic

5) The change may be preventable

My point is we don't know and we ignore potentially catastrophic and preventable risks all of the time (i.e. over population). So the question really is whether this particular risk is sufficient to justify extremely expensive and intrusive interventions on the part of government.
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....and don't be afraid to be a bit exaggerted in order to get things done - Canada per capita is a worse offender than America in regards to generating waste.

I know....we can smell the raw sewage from Vancouver! But I think the boondoggle for Canadian garbage in Michigan landfills is coming to an end. Maybe because their governor is/was Canadian Please!

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My point is we don't know and we ignore potentially catastrophic and preventable risks all of the time (i.e. over population). So the question really is whether this particular risk is sufficient to justify extremely expensive and intrusive interventions on the part of government.

We don't ignore potentially catastrophic risks. We analyze them, assess them and make a decision. As such, the level of risk needs to be taken into account.

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You're falling into exaggeration. That certainly isn't known, and in fact some of the claims by fear-mongers are extreme.

no I'm not...change will come and the financial cost will be catastrophic and many times more so if we delay action...projections for any average global temp increase above 2c is considered very dangerous, doing nothing as we are now we are headed for at least that...3-6c rise and it becomes civilzation threatening...people are being lulled by seemingly small numbers but those small numbers bring with them enormous environmental changes...
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no I'm not...change will come and the financial cost will be catastrophic and many times more so if we delay action...projections for any average global temp increase above 2c is considered very dangerous, doing nothing as we are now we are headed for at least that...3-6c rise and it becomes civilzation threatening...people are being lulled by seemingly small numbers but those small numbers bring with them enormous environmental changes...

Then you must have a cite ?

I'm nothing if not open to learning on this topic.

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We don't ignore potentially catastrophic risks. We analyze them, assess them and make a decision. As such, the level of risk needs to be taken into account.
Over population is a risk that is far more plausible than catastrophic climate change yet we do nothing. The main reason is the social cost of 'doing something' is deemed greater than the risk.

Bottom line is we cannot spend trillions address every possible catastrophic scenario and it is silly to even try.

Edited by Riverwind
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Over population is a risk that is far more plausible than catastrophic climate change yet we do nothing. The main reason is the social cost of 'doing something' is deemed greater than the risk.

Bottom line is we cannot spend trillions address every possible catastrophic scenario and it is silly to even try.

I don't agree. If population was an urgent problem, you could conceivably stop population growth almost immediately. Climate change could result in such things as crop failure or flooding which may not be easily adapted. Obviously we can't spend trillions addressing every possible catastrophe but this isn't every possible catastrophe - this is a pressing catastrophe that has been identified by leading scientists.

We're not spending trillions to prepare spaceships to leave the earth, but we might do so if we thought the sun was going supernova in 100 years.

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