Time to cut down immigration?

[Michael Hardner]

Mr. Canada

One doesn't need complex formulas and Igtnatieff-Harvard words and concepts to understand a basic format.

The less people you have to fill positions makes those few people much more valuable. In being so valuable the employer must pay higher wages in order to entice the worker to them.

As it is now there is an overabundance of unskilled labour, the companies pay rock bottom wages and pocket record profits. This is wrong.

Actually, economics is something that you need some education on. You're looking at the wage side, ignoring the prices. If you follow your logic, communism would make good sense. You could set "fair" prices and wages for everything and have the state run the economy on that basis.

[Guest TrueMetis]

One doesn't need complex formulas and Igtnatieff-Harvard words and concepts to understand a basic format.

The less people you have to fill positions makes those few people much more valuable. In being so valuable the employer must pay higher wages in order to entice the worker to them.

As it is now there is an overabundance of unskilled labour, the companies pay rock bottom wages and pocket record profits. This is wrong.

An in paying the higher wage he will also increase how much he sells his product for making the wage increase kind of pointless.

[blueblood]

One doesn't need complex formulas and Igtnatieff-Harvard words and concepts to understand a basic format.

The less people you have to fill positions makes those few people much more valuable. In being so valuable the employer must pay higher wages in order to entice the worker to them.

As it is now there is an overabundance of unskilled labour, the companies pay rock bottom wages and pocket record profits. This is wrong.

Oh moses smell the roses!!!

And making the prices sky high for the products that those workers will have produced. Resulting in less sales for the company, which results in less profits, resulting in pissed off shareholders and laid off workers.

Those "big" companies are all owned by shareholders, and a lot of those times those "greedy shareholders" are your average Canadian saving for retirement.

The free market always finds a balance and sometimes not everyone likes what that balance is.

You should change your sidebar to blue socialist instead of blue tory

Edited October 5, 2009 by blueblood

[wyly]

This is bunk and untrue. Canada does not have a zero population growth. What's wrong with having the same population anyways? Does Canada really need more and more people to use up our natural resources?

Canada's birth rate is 1.5 per female...to have a stable population requires a birth of 2.1 ...at 1.5 we need immigration or population would decline and we would have no growth...how is that going to work for your pension when there are more pensioners than workers...

what's wrong with a stable population??? nothing as long as you have a government that plans for it , those you support only believe in unlimited growth which is physically impossible...someday we'll elect a government that understands but it won't be a conservative one...

How does letting in immigrants who have zero skills and go right on to the social assistance, uses our health care and other benefits without paying anything at all into the Canadian system help Canada? All this at a time when the unemployment rate is climbing and more and more Canadians are out of work everyday. Explain that to me please.

you make unfounded generalizations...most immigrants are skilled and have jobs...my neighbourhood is filled with middleclass immigrants and guess what..they all work...

from the government of Canada immigration website...

Canada Immigration (Permanent Resident) Visas are given to qualified skilled workers, Provincial Nominees, business persons and to close family members of Canadian citizens and permanent residents.

Edited October 5, 2009 by wyly

[wyly]

It is a fallacy that Canadians will not do those jobs. More properly, Canadians will not do the jobs at the very low wages they command - because of the abundance of unskilled immigrants desperate for work, and who have very low standards for wages.

As for the "skilled workers". Approximately 50,000 out of 250,000 immigrants who came to Canada in 2008 are listed under "primary applicant" in the skilled category. That's 1 skilled person out of ever 5 people who come to Canada. And just how "skilled" they actually are is perhaps under some doubt.

it's not, it's recognized in every developed country in the world...immigrants because of poor education language barriers and discrimination take the worst jobs at the lowest wages...

1 out 5? why do have a problem with immigrants bringing their families? should we revert back to days of a Head Tax on Chinese and refuse to let their famlies in???...do we only let in adults in and forget about the next generation? who is going to support our pension plan?

[Argus]

Or those jobs wouldn't be filled and the work wouldn't be done, and there would be less economic activity and prices would go up as well.

The jobs would be done. The value of the work would simply be reassesed and the renumeration increased. Or, here's an idea, we make the welfare types take care of the cleaning. It's not like they've got anything else to do.

[Oleg Bach]

Should have cut down the flow 10 years ago...There was a time when a white guy....sorry for using that phrase..could take a stroll down the street and have himself some sort of job within a day...that day is gone...If our system is over taxed domestically then stop straining it..This buisness that states that Canada needs more and more and more people to be prosperous is a crock! This globalist notion that the planet is the home of everyone and there are no boarders...is like saying you don't need wall in your bed room or house for that matter - F that...I am entitled to a house with walls.

[Argus]

it's not, it's recognized in every developed country in the world...immigrants because of poor education language barriers and discrimination take the worst jobs at the lowest wages...

That is completely irrelevent. Of course immigrants with low skills gravitate towards unskilled jobs. But there are always plenty of unskilled locals who would be willing to do those jobs had not the renumeration been drastically lowered by the mass of immigrants clamouring for work.

1 out 5? why do have a problem with immigrants bringing their families? should we revert back to days of a Head Tax on Chinese and refuse to let their famlies in???...do we only let in adults in and forget about the next generation? who is going to support our pension plan?

I'm pointing out that only 50,000 of our 250,000 immigrants have to meet any kind of test for job skills. That leaves 200,000 more without any linguistic or job skills coming here every year. And most of them are not children. They're spouses, siblings, parents, refugees and care-givers, mostly from third world countries, man of them illiterate.

[Oleg Bach]

Let a bitter immigrant be a "care giver" for your aging parent...you had better be ready to explain away the dirty diaper and the bruises.

[Michael Hardner]

Argus,

The jobs would be done. The value of the work would simply be reassesed and the renumeration increased. Or, here's an idea, we make the welfare types take care of the cleaning. It's not like they've got anything else to do.

There aren't enough available people to do the work at those wage levels, and Canadians want to pay less for goods and services. Paying more amounts to a sort of welfare tax built into the costs of goods and services doesn't it ?

[Oleg Bach]

Argus,

There aren't enough available people to do the work at those wage levels, and Canadians want to pay less for goods and services. Paying more amounts to a sort of welfare tax built into the costs of goods and services doesn't it ?

Canadians don't need more stuff...we have to much damned stuff - Look at the landfill sites! We don't need more "goods" and as for services..time we wiped our own asses and became indendent. Time to trim down and live like evolved human beings in an angelic state rather than be microbes who's only purpose is to consume and excrete! WHY do we have to keep going on like this...like rats that consume and shit....Life is more than being a rat or KING RAT>

[wyly]

That is completely irrelevent. Of course immigrants with low skills gravitate towards unskilled jobs. But there are always plenty of unskilled locals who would be willing to do those jobs had not the renumeration been drastically lowered by the mass of immigrants clamouring for work.

remuneration is never lowered, legislation is routinely passed to have it raised, employers fight any increase in the minimum wage and will always pay the minimum required...I have business asociates who run several Tim Hortons who brought immigrants in to work because Canadians aren't willing to work for minimum wage, they told me of other businesses which closed their doors because there was no one willing to work for the minimum...

I'm pointing out that only 50,000 of our 250,000 immigrants have to meet any kind of test for job skills. That leaves 200,000 more without any linguistic or job skills coming here every year. And most of them are not children. They're spouses, siblings, parents, refugees and care-givers, mostly from third world countries, man of them illiterate.

one third of immigrants are school age dependents...on average immigrants entering have double the education an equivalent canadian group of the sime size...and the fact is unless an unskilled immigrant is either a refugee, dependent or have a job waiting for them they do not get in the country...my sister-in-law has tried for two years to bring in her husband who she met and married overseas without success, why? because he doesn't have any real job skills and she doesn't make enough to sponsor him...

[wyly]

nice bit of info I found this mornings paper provided from CanWest news service...more than 90% of young immigrants from asia, ME and africa have have post secondary education compared to 38% of young Canadians...which supports my argument that immigrants are generally very skilled...unless potential unskilled immigrants are either refugees, dependents or have a job sponsor they're not getting into Canada...

[Hydraboss]

nice bit of info I found this mornings paper provided from CanWest news service...more than 90% of young immigrants from asia, ME and africa have have post secondary education compared to 38% of young Canadians...which supports my argument that immigrants are generally very skilled...unless potential unskilled immigrants are either refugees, dependents or have a job sponsor they're not getting into Canada...

Of course, the nasty little secret is the definition of "dependant", eh?

Family Sponsorship

Applying as a member of the family class

This application is for persons who wish to be re-united with close family members in Canada. A Canadian citizen or permanent resident must sponsor family class immigrants. This person can sponsor:

parents or grandparents;

an orphaned close family member;

an adopted child or a child to be adopted in Canada.

Note: Canada’s citizenship law was amended to allow Canadian citizens who adopt a child from a foreign country the option of applying for Canadian citizenship for their adopted child without first having to apply for permanent residence. An application for Canadian Citizenship for a person adopted by a Canadian citizen (after February 14, 1977) is available. Adopted persons who are adults may apply for themselves.

So only one working person (or at least one that managed to get in the country legally) is required and then, guess what?....that person can bring the whole damn clan.

• No limit on number of children
  
• Legal spouse/common law other
  
• Adopted/orphaned family member
  
• Two sets of parents
  
• Two sets of grandparents
  

Do you think that one Tim Horton's worker can afford to pay for the whole damn clan? No, but I he knows that Canadian taxpayers can.

[ToadBrother]

Should have cut down the flow 10 years ago...There was a time when a white guy....sorry for using that phrase..could take a stroll down the street and have himself some sort of job within a day...that day is gone...If our system is over taxed domestically then stop straining it..This buisness that states that Canada needs more and more and more people to be prosperous is a crock! This globalist notion that the planet is the home of everyone and there are no boarders...is like saying you don't need wall in your bed room or house for that matter - F that...I am entitled to a house with walls.

I agree completely. I vote that we start by stripping filthy immigrants like yourself of citizenship and shipping you back to whatever rat's nest you came from.

[Michael Hardner]

It's odd that on the one hand people don't want taxes to pay for immigrants, but yet they want to pay more for goods in order to keep them out. Could it be that there's something motivating them other than money ?

Yes, yes it could.

That would be xenophobia.

Xenophobia is a dislike and/or fear of that which is unknown or different from oneself. It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner" and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear." The term is typically used to describe a fear or dislike of foreigners or of people significantly different from oneself, usually in the context of visibly differentiated minorities

[Mr.Canada]

Xenophobia has nothing to do with it. Being fair to the people who were born here is the point. We're being made to pay for people who are meant to be sponsored by relatives. This is wrong.

[Smallc]

You're right, it has nothing to do with Xenophobia.

At that time I will lead the Christian armies into battle in the streets to reclaim our land.

[ToadBrother]

Xenophobia has nothing to do with it. Being fair to the people who were born here is the point. We're being made to pay for people who are meant to be sponsored by relatives. This is wrong.

Why is it wrong? Shouldn't an immigrant have a chance to bring his family over? I mean, your policy resembles the racist policies used to get Chinese laborers over here when they built the railroad, but keep their families away.

This country was built by immigrants. You're descended from them. I'm descended from them.

[Mr.Canada]

Why is it wrong? Shouldn't an immigrant have a chance to bring his family over? I mean, your policy resembles the racist policies used to get Chinese laborers over here when they built the railroad, but keep their families away.

This country was built by immigrants. You're descended from them. I'm descended from them.

Sure anyone can come as long as they can pay for themselves. Taxpayers shouldn't be made to pay for people who are supposedly sponsored.

[ToadBrother]

Sure anyone can come as long as they can pay for themselves. Taxpayers shouldn't be made to pay for people who are supposedly sponsored.

CAn you provide some statistics on the number of actual immigrants who are on any kind of support (beyond, say Medicare, which we all get). My understanding is that immigrant's have pretty high barriers to cross as far as transferable skills and earnings potential. Actual immigration is a pretty darned tough thing (by all accounts its easier to immigrate to the US).

[Mr.Canada]

Stats aren't needed. One person can sponsor all of these people.

* No limit on number of children

* Legal spouse/common law other

* Adopted/orphaned family member

* Two sets of parents

* Two sets of grandparents

You think that one income can support all of these people?

[wyly]

Sure anyone can come as long as they can pay for themselves. Taxpayers shouldn't be made to pay for people who are supposedly sponsored.

lets see your proof...otherwise your just babbling xenophobic nonsense

[wyly]

Stats aren't needed. One person can sponsor all of these people.

* No limit on number of children

* Legal spouse/common law other

* Adopted/orphaned family member

* Two sets of parents

* Two sets of grandparents

You think that one income can support all of these people?

hmmm my father sponsored a family of 9 on his salary as a carpenter...

you to limit children spouses, eeew how wonderfully christian of you maybe we should just let one person come work him/her till they reach pension age and then ship them back to where they came from...

[wyly]

among the requirements to immigrate to Canada there is this stipulation regarding dependents..

Have enough money to look after themselves and their dependents in Canada until they become self-supporting.

Age

Education

Language ability in English or French

Work experience

Validated arranged employment/designated occupation

Adaptability: spouse education, work and education in Canada, arranged employment, family member in Canada

immigration rules

then take the immigration test.. I imagine a number of people on this forum would likely fail to qualify for Canadian immigration...

test