wulf42 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Headline from May 1944? Canadian citizens demand to know the cost of the upcoming invasion of France. lmao..................yes i can see that now!! " Sorry Ike! we will have to postpone our D-Day invasion!! The Canadian public wants to know what it is going to cost first" Liberals sheeeeeesh........lol Edited September 16, 2009 by wulf42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 lmao..................yes i can see that now!!" Sorry Ike! we will have to postpone our D-Day invasion!! The Canadian public wants to know what it is going to cost first" Liberals sheeeeeesh........lol lol...not only that...imagine Rommel taking notes. Rommel: Hmmmm...upcoming invasion in Normandy? Mein Gott! Deploy der Panzers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 lol...not only that...imagine Rommel taking notes. lol..............yes while we discussed the cost, the Germans would have Tigers up and down the entire coast!! some people just don t understand during war some thing's are simply not discussed until after the war! then the cost's can be debated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 some people just don t understand during war some thing's are simply not discussed until after the war!then the cost's can be debated. in response to a request for info last year, the cost was provided... what's changed from last year to now, particularly given your knee-slapping LOL's and blustering about "simply not discussed?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) in response to a request for info last year, the cost was provided... what's changed from last year to now, particularly given your knee-slapping LOL's and blustering about "simply not discussed?" If you knew anything about the military which you obviously do not giving out the cost's is letting the enemy know how much or little we are spending on the war effort...say for example we spend less this year than last year this may embolden the enemy to step up their attacks believing that Canada may be losing interest or is not able to keep up the fight, the Taliban are not overly bright.....the less info given the better! It's not rocket science. Edited September 16, 2009 by wulf42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 in response to a request for info last year, the cost was provided... what's changed from last year to now, particularly given your knee-slapping LOL's and blustering about "simply not discussed?" Would you demand full disclosure re: Canada's invasion of Normandy before it happened? It would have been a huge deal afterall. Gosthacked...you know I enjoy your posts...but you're sounding like the kind of hippy that Eric Cartman despises. lol re: Sault St Marie winters. We got over 12 feet last year...driving was very hit 'er miss. Had to dig out countless times. Not looking forward to this year's snow after such a glorious summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 lol..............yes while we discussed the cost, the Germans would have Tigers up and down the entire coast!!some people just don t understand during war some thing's are simply not discussed until after the war! then the cost's can be debated. Really? The Cold War is long over but debating the cost of its blowback is tantamount to treason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Really? The Cold War is long over but debating the cost of its blowback is tantamount to treason. Well there you have.........defense of the country isn t cheap!! Not sure what a CF-18 goes for these days but they cost money but it is a an asset we need to have! Secrets as far as military spending goes, is nothing new nobody wants a possible adversary to know how much or what they have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Would you demand full disclosure re: Canada's invasion of Normandy before it happened? It would have been a huge deal afterall. Not sure about that. In the end no. And like I said, troop movements and strategic operations on that scale should be kept mostly quite. Because it was a major front to push back the Germans. Many countries involved, and massive naval, air, ground coordination for one of the hugest assaults we humans have ever witnessed. It was a different time, and a much larger more prominant and defined issue to resolve. We are really talking about the cost of the war. We do need to know where this money is all going. For example, if we don't scrutinize it all, and without much oversight, funds can be pissed away on usless crap. A good chunk of money could have been spent arming our troops properly before they start the tour. This helps prevent abuse of the system. This is all I am really asking, as others are in this thread. Gosthacked...you know I enjoy your posts...but you're sounding like the kind of hippy that Eric Cartman despises. Cartman is one of the most ruthless characters I have ever seen on tv. South Park just keeps getting better and better. I think Butters is my top charachter on that show. But in the end, have a heart and compassion now and then. It helps everyone out. lol re: Sault St Marie winters. We got over 12 feet last year...driving was very hit 'er miss. Had to dig out countless times. Not looking forward to this year's snow after such a glorious summer. It's not nice driving in the winter at times. but a heck of a lot of fun. Looking forward to putting this old Impreza through the paces this winter !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 . We do need to know where this money is all going. And with that intelligence you will know what the operational capabilties are and plan for them. As I said, this is the kind of info that spies kill for and the left whines about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 We are really talking about the cost of the war. We do need to know where this money is all going. For example, if we don't scrutinize it all, and without much oversight, funds can be pissed away on usless crap. A good chunk of money could have been spent arming our troops properly before they start the tour. This helps prevent abuse of the system. This is all I am really asking, as others are in this thread. Having concern as far as the troops being properly armed is very good and yes as a country we should be doing that! but having said that i fear some of it is just political posturing to make one party or the other look bad to some degree and to this end we have to becareful what info is released to the public, there is always a chance it could harm our soldiers and help the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 This would make a wonderful rational for limitless military spending wouldn't it? Since we keep our military spending secret it stands to reason all our enemies do too. Therefore we have to assume they're spendng more than they say or can probably afford so we have no choice but to do the same. This'll be great for the GDP though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 The less your enemy knows about what you're doing...the better. That is unless you want the enemy to win...then let loose little secrets like your military budget for them to peruse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 The less your enemy knows about what you're doing...the better. That is unless you want the enemy to win...then let loose little secrets like your military budget for them to peruse. If that is the case, an argument can be made for making tendering processes secret from the public, not saying how large our forces are, where they are based, ensuring that they don't have their unit names published or even admitting they have names, not announcing medal award winners and the like. You can go pretty crazy hiding thing on the issue of national security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Not sure about that. In the end no. And like I said, troop movements and strategic operations on that scale should be kept mostly quite. Because it was a major front to push back the Germans. Many countries involved, and massive naval, air, ground coordination for one of the hugest assaults we humans have ever witnessed. It was a different time, and a much larger more prominant and defined issue to resolve. It was of great importance to keep all aspects of Operation Overlord a secret...even to other Allies and levels of command. The big roose was that Rommel was supposed to think that the attack was going to come at Calais. The Allies went to even greater lengths to fool the Germans across the way. We are really talking about the cost of the war. We do need to know where this money is all going. For example, if we don't scrutinize it all, and without much oversight, funds can be pissed away on usless crap. A good chunk of money could have been spent arming our troops properly before they start the tour. This helps prevent abuse of the system. This is all I am really asking, as others are in this thread. Unfortunately, war isn't run on a set budget. Plus...stop fooling yourself...if the Government of Canada had extra money lying around during peacetime they wouldn't have spent it on the military. A raise for themselves, perhaps. Cartman is one of the most ruthless characters I have ever seen on tv. South Park just keeps getting better and better. I think Butters is my top charachter on that show. But in the end, have a heart and compassion now and then. It helps everyone out. Cartman has said some amazing things that only a cartoon bully-kid could ever get away saying. South Park often hits the issue right on the head...the newer episodes far outshine the older ones. It's not nice driving in the winter at times. but a heck of a lot of fun. Looking forward to putting this old Impreza through the paces this winter !! A fellow around here used to own an old Viet-nam era Amtrack that he used to take out on deep snow days until the RCMP and ICBC got less forgiving...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) If that is the case, an argument can be made for making tendering processes secret from the public, not saying how large our forces are, where they are based, ensuring that they don't have their unit names published or even admitting they have names, not announcing medal award winners and the like.You can go pretty crazy hiding thing on the issue of national security. In WW1, WW2 and Korea those very things were done. Postcard reads "Somewhere in France"...but you've been in Belgium for the last 7 months. Edited September 17, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Does the cost in dollars matter? Do we decide on a dollar value per body bag then pull out if it is exceeded? Either this is worth doing or it isn't. If it is, do it right. If not, get our people out of there before any more of them die for something you aren't prepared to support, just because it is too expensive. Make up your minds. Having said that, I don't think the government should be keeping the cost a secret. I do think people who want to get out solely for financial reasons are A holes and an insult to the folks we have making the sacrifices over there. This would make a wonderful rational for limitless military spending wouldn't it? Since we keep our military spending secret it stands to reason all our enemies do too. Therefore we have to assume they're spending more than they say or can probably afford so we have no choice but to do the same. I'm looking forward to the Taliban's next estimate of military spending. Wouldn't mind a detailed account of where the funds are coming from either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Having said that, I don't think the government should be keeping the cost a secret. I think last years costs should be public, next years costs should be classified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think last years costs should be public, next years costs should be classified. I don't know. I'd like to know how committed the government is to this is as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think part of the general 'problem' is that Canadians are disconnected from their military. The army is at war...I'm not...type of attitude. During WW2, Canada put over a million men in uniform...most of them volunteers. We'll never see that sort of commitment to Canada in our times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think part of the general 'problem' is that Canadians are disconnected from their military. The army is at war...I'm not...type of attitude. During WW2, Canada put over a million men in uniform...most of them volunteers. We'll never see that sort of commitment to Canada in our times. Lets hope we will never need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Lets hope we will never need to. I agree it would no doubt have to be something really nasty to get us off our collective rears. Many of those million never saw the war outside of Canada, afterall...but to uniform they went...en masse. The rest hit the factories and farms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think part of the general 'problem' is that Canadians are disconnected from their military. The army is at war...I'm not...type of attitude. During WW2, Canada put over a million men in uniform...most of them volunteers. We'll never see that sort of commitment to Canada in our times. The issues were much more defined during WW2 but I agree, we never will see that kind of commitment unless maybe the country is threatened directly. I don't think it is bad that people are skeptical but our military is us so don't screw them around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I agree it would no doubt have to be something really nasty to get us off our collective rears. Many of those million never saw the war outside of Canada, afterall...but to uniform they went...en masse. The rest hit the factories and farms. My father joined in 1939 at the ripe old age of 18. He went overseas in 41. His older brother was in the Merchant marine. On the mumansk run his ship was torpedoed and sunk. He was rescued and then that ship was torpedoed and sunk. He was rescued a second time. That ship was also torpedoed. He wasn't rescued. This was 43. My father got the news about his brother the same month he receved news that his mother had died in Montreal. Three years later he came home for the first time in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) In WW1, WW2 and Korea those very things were done. Postcard reads "Somewhere in France"...but you've been in Belgium for the last 7 months. And big mistakes were covered up and profiteering was never found out because of the secrecy. As I said, you can get pretty crazy keeping things secret. We could get to the point where we don't admit anyone is hurt or killed in the fight and make it illegal to let anyone know as national security. How far do you think we should take it? Should we neither confirm or deny when we are at war? Edited September 17, 2009 by jdobbin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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