jdobbin Posted September 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 It won't hurt the base of either. It helps Harper though because it goes against the false Liberal meme that Harper can't play with others. You think? Some political analysts in the last hour have said that many people in places like Alberta are already angry about him adopting less than Tory policies. Some conservative columnists in the last day have said that Harper shouldn't take the conservative vote for granted. I don't think the Liberals will win the election. But I don't think they can afford to giving the Tories another four or five months just so they they pull a snap election in winter/spring after the Olympics either. There is no cooperation going on and the prospect of it happening seems very marginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 You think? Some political analysts in the last hour have said that many people in places like Alberta are already angry about him adopting less than Tory policies. Some conservative columnists in the last day have said that Harper shouldn't take the conservative vote for granted. I don't think the Liberals will win the election. But I don't think they can afford to giving the Tories another four or five months just so they they pull a snap election in winter/spring after the Olympics either. There is no cooperation going on and the prospect of it happening seems very marginal. Don't count on the 'disgruntled' vote, jdobbin. You've heard me rail often enough about 'disenfranchised conservatives'. All the grumblers (including myself, sadly!) will still vote for the New Progressive Conservative Party because all the other options are even less palatable! Do you really think that someone who thinks Harper adopts "less than Tory politicies" would turn to the Liberals or the NDP, who are even further left of Tory policies? It just doesn't make sense. Even having that portion of the vote stay home doesn't make sense. You have to understand that these folks view a Liberal win to be just as injurious to the country as Liberal and NDP supporters feel about Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Don't count on the 'disgruntled' vote, jdobbin. You've heard me rail often enough about 'disenfranchised conservatives'.All the grumblers (including myself, sadly!) will still vote for the New Progressive Conservative Party because all the other options are even less palatable! Given that the party has fractured before, I don't know that you can guarantee that. Moreover, the last time the Tories imploded, they did it while in majority. Do you really think that someone who thinks Harper adopts "less than Tory politicies" would turn to the Liberals or the NDP, who are even further left of Tory policies? I was thinking of some people voting for an even more right wing choice. It just doesn't make sense. Even having that portion of the vote stay home doesn't make sense. You have to understand that these folks view a Liberal win to be just as injurious to the country as Liberal and NDP supporters feel about Harper. And some people feel the same way about the Tories. That is why their support never gets to 40% or more before quickly retreating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 An election would be so stupid right now. The country is doing ok right now and people don't want another election. The Liberals have next to nothing major to bash the Cons on, other than Afghanistan. I'm not a CPC guy but it would be dumb to change gov't right now considering we are starting to recover from the economic woes. I don't see the Cons getting elected out of power unless they screw up somewhere, and right now they are probably the most squeaky clean since Harper became PM. The Liberals need to find some sort of scandal to give them momentum if they want a hope in hell right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 I don't see the Cons getting elected out of power unless they screw up somewhere, and right now they are probably the most squeaky clean since Harper became PM. The Liberals need to find some sort of scandal to give them momentum if they want a hope in hell right now. Maybe the NDP will support them. The Liberals have propped them up since 2006 and for their troubles had a snap election called before the term was over. Harper can't be trusted not to call one again. Term limits mean nothing to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 You think? Some political analysts in the last hour have said that many people in places like Alberta are already angry about him adopting less than Tory policies. I was thinking of some people voting for an even more right wing choice...... jdobbin Yeah... Alta4ever is already touting a breakaway. I always got a giggle out of a couple of SW Sask ridings that always ended up with an NDP MLA in the wild scramble to be as far right wing as possible. Dwayne Lingenfelter was elected once down there by way of gaining the benefit of 1100 votes being squandered on the WCC. The CPC has trouble with more than the right wing extreme, though. I stand as a classic middle of the road PC- fiscal Conservative/social liberal- and there is absolutely no room for me within the CPC. A right-leaning Liberal party is a far, far better fit. So long as the CPC continues as the mendacious, obstructionist bully, militarist, republican, bible thumping bigot, I could make myself vote a lot redder than 'right wing Liberal' to be rid of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 You think? Some political analysts in the last hour have said that many people in places like Alberta are already angry about him adopting less than Tory policies.I was thinking of some people voting for an even more right wing choice...... jdobbin Yeah... Alta4ever is already touting a breakaway. I always got a giggle out of a couple of SW Sask ridings that always ended up with an NDP MLA in the wild scramble to be as far right wing as possible. Dwayne Lingenfelter was elected once down there by way of gaining the benefit of 1100 votes being squandered on the WCC. The CPC has trouble with more than the right wing extreme, though. I stand as a classic middle of the road PC- fiscal Conservative/social liberal- and there is absolutely no room for me within the CPC. A right-leaning Liberal party is a far, far better fit. So long as the CPC continues as the mendacious, obstructionist bully, militarist, republican, bible thumping bigot, I could make myself vote a lot redder than 'right wing Liberal' to be rid of them. Well Molly, I'm almost 58 years old. I've been waiting all my life for a true, classic Liberal party so I can vote for them. It's been a long time and still not the slightest sign it's going to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Well Molly, I'm almost 58 years old. I've been waiting all my life for a true, classic Liberal party so I can vote for them.It's been a long time and still not the slightest sign it's going to happen! Wild Bill, I'm younger than you and yet I have exactly the same feeling.I take my vote seriously (even though I know it changes nothing) and I reckon that I must choose Harper, unless I vote Bloc. I simply want a smaller government inside a smaller State. IMV, in the long term, Canada is a far greater enterprise than whatever ambitious politicians happen to take power. IMV, the future, long term success of Canada is based on the talent, work and decisions of myriad people across the country. Canada's success does not depend on the decisions of a small cohort of ambitious high school politicians in Ottawa. Anyway, I vote for whatever is closest to what I think is right. Edited September 13, 2009 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 It's a two-sided coin. I want very badly to vote 'for what I think is right', but there are many ways to skin a cat, different degress of rightness, and different weights for various priorities. Sometimes one has no choice but to vote against what one believes is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) say it ain't so... not the principled NDP! It would appear when they lose their free ride...perhaps punked and/or madmax can explain (spin) it I am of the position that we are going to have another election. As for the free ride, the fact is, the CPC, LPC and NDP have experienced a "Free Ride" with the biggest benefactor of being the CPC. Receiving nearly 80 confidence votes in a row from the LPC for nothing in return, is quite a free ride. The LPC free ride has been hard on the Morale of the party. The NDP free ride, gives them the position to use the role of opposition to the will of the government. Of which the government was the CPC/LPC. The BQ also got a free ride. The ride continued for far too long, and unfortuneately, parties are so entrenched that while trying to shake the Dion Monkey off their back, are going to trigger an election. The CPC has no intention, based upon all their messaging, to work with "Socialists and Separatists". Working with the LPC was ok for them. Their is only a few bills the NDP and CPC could work together on and then what? An election of course. The CPC believe they can do enough positive PR on EI to totally ignore the NDP. It could well work. Therefore, we are going to an election, and on my street, people are only hearing Election talk now, and are instantly blaming the Liberals. It may not be fair, because the CPC have been far from forthcoming with the LPC over the summer, but the fact is , people haven't figured out what the LPC are about. The LPC are election ready, certainly in the regions surronding me, and appear game for an election. Will they be able to make that case to the public, is yet to be determined. I wouldn't hedge any bets on a CPC/NDP solution to the train wreck about to cost us another $300million. Edited September 13, 2009 by madmax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Boy© Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 An election would be so stupid right now. The country is doing ok right now and people don't want another election. The Liberals have next to nothing major to bash the Cons on, other than Afghanistan.I'm not a CPC guy but it would be dumb to change gov't right now considering we are starting to recover from the economic woes. I don't see the Cons getting elected out of power unless they screw up somewhere, and right now they are probably the most squeaky clean since Harper became PM. The Liberals need to find some sort of scandal to give them momentum if they want a hope in hell right now. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Not this Friday. Le Bloc québécois avait une bonne nouvelle pour le gouvernement de Stephen Harper, mardi, quand Gilles Duceppe a annoncé que son parti appuiera les conservateurs lors d'un vote de confiance vendredi, ce qui assure la survie du gouvernement minoritaire, du moins pour le moment. CanoeThe EI changes were designed specifically to get Bloc support since they help the forestry sector. This is no coalition. Duceppe (and Layton) are doingwhat Ignatieff should be doing. Approve the Tories on a case by case basis. À la prochaine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 This is no coalition. Duceppe (and Layton) are doingwhat Ignatieff should be doing. Approve the Tories on a case by case basis. There was no case by case basis. The Tories would not be doing anything had the Liberals said they had lost confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 There was no case by case basis. The Tories would not be doing anything had the Liberals said they had lost confidence. Poor Iggy, Poor Liberals.... outmanouverd yet once again. If they don't bfing down the government by January they are fusckered. The economy is in full rebound and the recovery will have started in earnest and only one party will be able to take credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Poor Iggy, Poor Liberals.... outmanouverd yet once again. I don't think so. The Liberals knew that Jack would fold. It works in their favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't think so. The Liberals knew that Jack would fold. It works in their favour. Yet he didn't fold the Bloc did. He might in the future although if he does and he gets EI out of it as opposed to the Liberals getting nothing why shouldn't he? It is the same deal we gave Martin, Pearson, King, pretty much every Liberal who did one good thing for the country and that is cave to the NDP. Nothing wrong with getting progressive policy I know Liberals hate it but someone has to fight the fight instead of play politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Yet he didn't fold the Bloc did. Oh, he did so fold. he didn't get near what he asked for and he's still going to support the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Oh, he did so fold. he didn't get near what he asked for and he's still going to support the government. This is the problem with the Liberals. They don't understand how to work a minority government yah you have to compromise and an EI bill that will help 190,000 TODAY is something I wouldn't understand not supporting. The Liberals say one minute "Harper you can everything you want we will vote for it" then the next they say "We will never support anything". The NDP says "We will never support you until you do this" then Harper comes back meeting them halfway on an issue they have been pushing for 50 years and say "we will take and vote you down next time". I know the Liberals are bad opposition but this is just funny. It is a big loss for Iggy and the gang they met for half the summer gave up and the NDP got something they couldn't so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The Liberals compromised 79 times (the NDP was keeping count after all) and the NDP reminded them of it every time. The NDP said that they had a fundamental opposition to the government and so they couldn't support it. Now they're supporting it with almost nothing given to them that they wanted by the Conservatives. You can spin it as you like. I call that folding, and Jack should be reminded of it at every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The Liberals compromised 79 times (the NDP was keeping count after all) and the NDP reminded them of it every time. The NDP said that they had a fundamental opposition to the government and so they couldn't support it. Now they're supporting it with almost nothing given to them that they wanted by the Conservatives. You can spin it as you like. I call that folding, and Jack should be reminded of it at every turn. Voting against you mission statement is not a compromise unless you want to name somethings they got for it? Ohhhh I know they got: Funding cut to the native community Regional development funding cuts to Health Poor Immigration policy Funding cut Fisheries and Oceans Further away from Pay equity Less help for our aboriginal communities. Just to name a few didn't even mention the Arts oh wait just did. Yep they sure did compromise they compromised their morals. Where as the NDP is looking to increase EI and make help those who paid into it. SHAME!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 We're not talking about the Liberals, but feel free to deflect from the folding NDP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 We're not talking about the Liberals, but feel free to deflect from the folding NDP. That is fine the NDP just saved 190,000 unemployed workers from falling off EI as the economy improves and they can find jobs and you take issue with that. I hope the Liberals run against saving those 190,000 people it seems like a real issue for you to run on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The Liberals were dumb (again) for walking out on the Joint EI Panel. There were differing views on how to help - the Libs steadfastly wanted to lowest common denominator approach - work 45 days, collect for a year. When they couldn't get their way, they took their ball and went home. If they had simply stuck it out until the end, they could have shared in the credit for whatever the results were. That would have kept their options open. Now they are forced to vote against what they wanted - improvements to EI. Ignatieff is all over the map - he doesn't have a clue about politics. He's the smartest man in the room....but he's in the wrong house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The Liberals were dumb (again) for walking out on the Joint EI Panel. There were differing views on how to help - the Libs steadfastly wanted to lowest common denominator approach - work 45 days, collect for a year. When they couldn't get their way, they took their ball and went home. If they had simply stuck it out until the end, they could have shared in the credit for whatever the results were. That would have kept their options open. Now they are forced to vote against what they wanted - improvements to EI. Ignatieff is all over the map - he doesn't have a clue about politics. He's the smartest man in the room....but he's in the wrong house. The Tories had no intention of doing anything in the panel. The Liberals said let's talks about the numbers and Harper made up crap that was shown when the Budget Officer looked at it. There was no compromise. Period. The only reason there is anything now is because there would be an election without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The Tories had no intention of doing anything in the panel. The Liberals said let's talks about the numbers and Harper made up crap that was shown when the Budget Officer looked at it. There was no compromise. Period.The only reason there is anything now is because there would be an election without it. I'm an NDP member and I am pissed at Layton for supporting Harper, I may vote liberal in the next election when it finally comes, I might even campaigne for the liberals. I think Jack will pay dearly in terms of support for propping up Harper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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