Is Canada losing its social cohesion

[Argus]

In today's Globe, Michael Valpy questions where Canada is headed, and whether our sense of shared unity is breaking down, a victim of the times and a lack of anything approaching a national vision.

A nation is an imagined community, wrote the U.S. political scientist Benedict Anderson.

Thought is not private, contrary to what Rodin's statue of The Thinker implies. Thought is predominantly public and social, and therefore a nation is a community of people who understand that those with whom they shop, ride public transit and share the roads and the sidewalks also share values, community knowledge and mythologies.

It is what enables us to talk to one another with some confidence of being not only heard but, as Isaiah Berlin would have it, being understood.

Is This the End of the Age of Social Cohesion?

This interests me for several reasons. But one is that Valpy articulates several of the complaints ©onservatives have been making for some years now - that in our quest to become all things to all people we have become no thing to anyone. The federal government spent years, under Trudeau and Chretien, trying to wipe out the cultural values English Canada held to, along with the symbols which held us together. This was done in small ways, but so many small ways - We don't call federal departments ministries anymore, really, they're departments. The royal coat of arms was wiped off the mailboxes years ago. Now it's some kind of high tech wing. The flag was replaced. The anthem most English Canadians knew best was replaced. Dominion Day was replaced with the bland "Canada Day", and its entire symbolism replaced by some weary imitation of American style rah-rah patriotism. Schools played down old Canadian traditional holidays so as to not make newcomers feel unwelcome.

These, and a myriad other things, large and small, have helped to create a Canada where more and more people live in silos, independant of one another, not really understanding, and in many cases, not even liking other groups within our supposed community. As Valpy says, a sense of compromise has washed away and politics have become increasingly more polarized.

What Valpy doesn't say in his article, doesn't even get into, is the position immigration plays. When you have cities like Toronto where over half the population is foreign born, and where there has been little to no efforts made at social integration, how can we not lose that sense of community he speaks about? Who are these people who live among us called Canadians, but whose values and beliefs are entirely different than ours? And if so many of them are so wildly different in their views and beliefs, then how can we have any sense of community or social cohesion?

[bush_cheney2004]

...The federal government spent years, under Trudeau and Chretien, trying to wipe out the cultural values English Canada held to, along with the symbols which held us together. This was done in small ways, but so many small ways....

...and it was done, ironically, in an attempt to keep Canada from breaking apart. Canada would have been the original "Balkanization".

[tango]

In today's Globe, Michael Valpy questions where Canada is headed, and whether our sense of shared unity is breaking down, a victim of the times and a lack of anything approaching a national vision.

A nation is an imagined community, wrote the U.S. political scientist Benedict Anderson.

Thought is not private, contrary to what Rodin's statue of The Thinker implies. Thought is predominantly public and social, and therefore a nation is a community of people who understand that those with whom they shop, ride public transit and share the roads and the sidewalks also share values, community knowledge and mythologies.

It is what enables us to talk to one another with some confidence of being not only heard but, as Isaiah Berlin would have it, being understood.

Is This the End of the Age of Social Cohesion?

When you have cities like Toronto where over half the population is foreign born, and where there has been little to no efforts made at social integration, how can we not lose that sense of community he speaks about? Who are these people who live among us called Canadians, but whose values and beliefs are entirely different than ours? And if so many of them are so wildly different in their views and beliefs, then how can we have any sense of community or social cohesion?

It just takes some time to develop a shared history.

If you don't live in Toronto, why complain about it? They don't.

[Smallc]

I was in Toronto on Canada Day. After seeing what I did, I can tell you that so many immigrants very much love this country.

[Smallc]

We're all Canadians, and most of us love this country. That said, we aren't all the same, and we don't all share the same beliefs. I don't think that's such a bad thing at all.

[Machjo]

Canada never has had social cohesion. The idea that it ever had such a cohesion is a myth. Even today, if you took an average Quebecer from Roberval and airdroopped in in Alberta, he'd be hardpressed to order a meal in a restaurant without a dectionary or a picture menu.

Even today, at least 8% of the populaiton of Nunavut assesses itself to know neither English nor French.

And that's just on the language front. Then on the religious front, Most Algonquin believed in Medewiwin, and the French settlers toappear later believed in the Catholic Faith. After the Plains of Abraham, we then had Protestantism. Considering that the Reverend John Medows Rodwell felt compelled to translate the Qur'an in 1861 along with critical notes so as to discredit Islam among converts of his time, I think it's reasonable to suppose that the fear of the spread of Islam withon our society is nothing new either. And of course today with the advent of public libraries and the internet, it's easier than ever to access religious information from around the world, thus increasing the chances of cross-conversion. Only closing our borders off completely, not only to immigration but even publications and the internet, could stem the tide of conversion to religions of the world.

In the end, the solution is not to try to look to the past to try to recreate an imagined common Canadian identity that has never existed, but rather to the future to try to create a new identity all might be able to accept.

Alternatively, we could reinforce the past by bringing back English traditions in English Canada, French traditions in French Canada, and all separate and create new countries.

Either way though, the creation of a common national identity in one Canada or common identities in new nations formed out of the current Canada would involve looking to the future, to uncharted territory, not to an imagined mythical past.

[Machjo]

Also, no matter what we do, we'll always have divergent ideas. THough my father is British and mother French Canadian, I speak 3 languages, hold non-Christian religious beliefs, and have a much more cosmopolitan view of the world. No amount of tinkering with trying to create a common identity could change that.

[tango]

We have a common identity! Where do people come up with this crap!

I'm walking on the beach in Florida, I pass a bunch of people speaking French. I say "Nice day, eh? They laugh, point, wave, call back.

We know we're Canadian, eh!

Edited August 30, 2009 by tango

[Argus]

Canada never has had social cohesion. The idea that it ever had such a cohesion is a myth. Even today, if you took an average Quebecer from Roberval and airdroopped in in Alberta, he'd be hardpressed to order a meal in a restaurant without a dectionary or a picture menu.

And yet he would share much with the residents there in terms of cultural values and beliefs. They would have a lot in common, and very little in the way of profound cultural differences.

[Argus]

We're all Canadians, and most of us love this country. That said, we aren't all the same, and we don't all share the same beliefs. I don't think that's such a bad thing at all.

You will never find a nation where everyone shares the same beliefs. But in other nations, there is a common sense of shared cultural and historical ties which bind citizens more strongly than there seems to be in Canada.

I feel very little sense of kinship for the smarmy lefties of Toronto et al, and none for immigrants.

[eyeball]

Who are these people who live among us called Canadians, but whose values and beliefs are entirely different than ours?

Go look in the mirror. I feel more alienated and distant from conservatives like you with each and every passing day.

There's no mystery why however...

I feel very little sense of kinship for the smarmy lefties...

[Smallc]

I feel very little sense of kinship for the smarmy lefties of Toronto et al, and none for immigrants.

Well too bad for you, eh?

[Argus]

Go look in the mirror. I feel more alienated and distant from conservatives like you with each and every passing day.

There's no mystery why however...

So I feel alienated and distant from you because of your political views, and you feel alienated and distant from me because of my political views...

And yet, somehow you manage to convey the impression your alienation is righteous and proper and just while mine is not.

[Argus]

Well too bad for you, eh?

I don't mind having standards and judgment.

[Smallc]

And it's too bad for you that those are out of step with this Canadian society that apparently lacks social cohesion.

[Hydraboss]

...that those are out of step with this Canadian society...

And here you are again stating your beliefs as though they are written in law somewhere. Will you ever accept the fact that your view of Canada is just that...YOUR view? Can you produce studies that prove that Argus is wrong in his view? Or that yours is the one and absolute truth? How do you support your claim that his interpretation of Canadian society is "out of step"? Would that be from your many long years traveling throughout this country interviewing varieties of people?

Your incessant view of all Canadians (and immigrants too!) in a large circle sitting in the lotus position humming "oohhhmmmm" gets very old very quickly. This is a heavily fractured group of states and even more fractured mish-mash of cultures jammed together. There is no cohesion.

[eyeball]

So I feel alienated and distant from you because of your political views, and you feel alienated and distant from me because of my political views...

And yet, somehow you manage to convey the impression your alienation is righteous and proper and just while mine is not.

The impression you convey usually only confirms my feelings. It seemed there might be a bit of common ground on the question of whether the state may be mishandling the child pornography file. Strange place to find that don't you think?

[Smallc]

There is no cohesion.

Canadians believe that there is, as shown in the Globe on Canada Day. Canadians share certain beliefs, as shown in the Globe n Canada Day. Those beliefs generally don't mirror your hateful ones or his racist ones.

The only part of the poll that is poorly framed is the one dealing with the Monarchy...the rest is quite sound.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1202928/

Canadians say they aren't united in the poll, yet their answers show remarkable unity across all regions.

Canadians are split on immigration though, and there's no denying that.....but then the next answer contradicts that again.

Canadians don't know what they want, that's one thing that's very clear. It shows how spoiled we are really. Canadians are generally satisfied with their lives and happy with their country. They like it, even if you don't.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Smallc

[Argus]

And it's too bad for you that those are out of step with this Canadian society that apparently lacks social cohesion.

Out of step? I don't think so. Vast numbers of people seem to feel as I do on any number of issues. You merely echo whatever the media tells you is proper.

[Smallc]

You're right, there are people that agree with you....most of them just aren't so hateful though.

[Mr.Canada]

Sometimes I feel as though the massive influx of new immigrants to Canada is helping to cement this mentality that we're strangers to each other. I believe that this is due to Canada importing immigrants from countries which have customs and traditions that are foreign to most Canadians.

Many immigrants therefore feel uncomfortable with traditional Canadian values and traditions and further isolate themselves within nearly homogeneous communities of their own countrymen/women. Adding to the strain.

I'd be interested to know which segment of society is feeling this way more than others.

[Pliny]

We have social cohesion Canadians think, "The government otta do something about that!", and along with that, hope to hang onto our entitlements - we call them "human rights" as it sounds better.

The government has taught us not to trust strangers, which is just about everybody plus the people you thought you knew. They will look after things for us and keep us safe - no others can be trusted to do that now can they? Immigrants learn to use the system and immediately start thinking, "the government otta do something about that", too and try to gain entitlements.

So you see, there is social cohesion. You just have to observe.

As far as there being social cohesion prior to Pearson well I have to disagree with Machjo and argue there was even more social cohesion then than now. Neighbours actually had to rely on each other and they had barn building and quilting bees and had big meals together. They helped each other clear land. But real cohesion isn't really demonstrated until the country faces a threat together.

During WWI they came together and fought the Germans and were a single-minded fighting force. Just as they fought the threat of socialist Nazis and Fascists in WWII. The socialists are still around pushing their sneaky big government agenda and we have to be careful or we will become socialists too.

[Argus]

You're right, there are people that agree with you....most of them just aren't so hateful though.

And there are people who agreee with you... most of them are smarter, though.

[Oleg Bach]

We are still cohesive. Take my little neighbourhood...on the lower east side of Toronto - I know everybody - the rich - the poor - the black the white - intellegent and good natured people are cohesive - were as the jerks no matter who they are don't fit in anywhere - and are not excepted.....The brighter parts of our population will always live in mutual co-operation...as Christ said "The poor will always be with us" I believe he meant that the stupid will always be around.

[Leafless]

...and it was done, ironically, in an attempt to keep Canada from breaking apart. Canada would have been the original "Balkanization".

Can you prove this is true?

I fully believe Canada would have never broken apart.

Treason is the name of the game and Trudeau-Chretien played their parts well selling out Canada in the name of Quebec.