sharkman Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I find this story notable for what actions the police took, and what actions Bob Dylan didn't take. 'What is your name, sir?'' the officer asked.''Bob Dylan,'' Dylan said. ''OK, what are you doing here?'' the officer asked. ''I'm on tour,'' the singer replied. A second officer, also in his 20s, responded to assist the first officer. He, too, apparently was unfamiliar with Dylan, Woolley said. The officers asked Dylan for identification. The singer of such classics as ''Like a Rolling Stone'' and ''Blowin' in the Wind'' said that he didn't have any ID with him, that he was just walking around looking at houses to pass some time before that night's show. If ever there was a teachable moment for Obama and Gates, this is it. This is why the story is receiving so little coverage, it makes the president look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The police didn't "detain" him; they asked him to accompany them back to his hotel, which he did, where his identity was vouched for by the tour staff. The police thanked everyone and all was well. Sounds as if everyone handled this politely/respectfully and I don't understand why you think a bigger deal should have been made of the incident. I also fail to see how it reflects badly on Obama and Gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The police didn't "detain" him; they asked him to accompany them back to his hotel, which he did, where his identity was vouched for by the tour staff. The police thanked everyone and all was well. Sounds as if everyone handled this politely/respectfully and I don't understand why you think a bigger deal should have been made of the incident. I also fail to see how it reflects badly on Obama and Gates.I agree that it doesn't reflect badly on Obama directly.The point that Sharkman is trying to make is that it is crucial to cooperate with lawful authority, even when, at the moment, it is unjustifiably suspicious of a person. As a President, Obama should have made that point. Resisting police (as you usually quite accurately note) is futile, dangerous and often has tragic results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I would add to what jbg said, that Obama, by defending Gates stuck his neck out before he knew all of the details. Now we have, with Dylan, a shining example of the police handling a call exactly the same way, asking to see ID. Dylan didn't freak out as Gates did, he just said I don't have any. The police then detained him from his walk so they could get someone to vouch for him at the hotel he claimed he was staying at. They found his story to be true about being on tour and staying there. End of story. Dylan, in showing how one ought to behave when police ask for ID, embarrassed Gates and the man who defended him and called the police stupid. Gates handled it wrong, Dylan handled it right. Edited August 16, 2009 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I would add to what jbg said, that Obama, by defending Gates stuck his neck out before he knew all of the details. Now we have, with Dylan, a shining example of the police handling a call exactly the same way, asking to see ID. No, it isn't "exactly the same" because once Dylan's id had been vouched for, the police thanked him and went on their way. A neighbor had reported a possible burglary when Gates and his driver were seen trying to force open his front door, which was jammed. By the time police arrived, Gates was inside and showed proof of his residency. link So why was he asked to "step outside?" Why didn't the police just politely thank him and go on their way as they did in the incident with Dylan? This is what Obama was questioning, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 So, in your opinion, Gates did nothing wrong and Dylan did nothing wrong? What exactly is 'proof of residence'? It sounds like a lawyer term, and didn't ask for proof of residency. They asked for ID, just like with Dylan. The police determined through a witness that Dylan was who he said he was. There was no witness for Gates, hence the need to ensure that Gates was who he said he was. All he had to do was reach into his back pocket and produce his I.D. Help the police do their job, like Dylan did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Perhaps Dylan should write a book of etiquette on how to behave in a police state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 So, in your opinion, Gates did nothing wrong and Dylan did nothing wrong? What exactly is 'proof of residence'? It sounds like a lawyer term, and didn't ask for proof of residency. They asked for ID, just like with Dylan.The police determined through a witness that Dylan was who he said he was. There was no witness for Gates, hence the need to ensure that Gates was who he said he was. All he had to do was reach into his back pocket and produce his I.D. Help the police do their job, like Dylan did. Upon further reading, I believe Gates didn't act appropriately and should have cooperated and, as you said, helped the police do their job. Under the circumstances, I do feel Obama's response was inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 What about the obvious? Don't wander around strange neighbourhoods where people don't know you without ID. Sounds to me like both Dylan and the police acted exactly as they should have. As for the 20 something cops not recognizing him, I'm not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Seems odd to me that the police would roll up on somebody and demand ID for just walking down the street. Aren't they supposed to have "probable cause" to stop someone? In the Gates case, an eyewitness report of someone trying to break into a home is certainly probable cause... in Dylan's case, I'm not sure what reason they would have to stop him, unless "looking like a hobo" or "singing through your nose" are now misdemeanors. By any chance, was he walking down Desolation Row? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 As for the 20 something cops not recognizing him, I'm not surprised. I'm familiar with a lot of his work, and I know what he looked like back when he was popular, but I certainly wouldn't recognize him as a 68 year old... -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 There was no witness for Gates, hence the need to ensure that Gates was who he said he was. Yes, the degrees on the wall with his name on them were obviously fake. Gates should have been more courteous, but there was no reason for the officer to detain him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yes, the degrees on the wall with his name on them were obviously fake. Gates should have been more courteous, but there was no reason for the officer to detain him. The issue with degrees on the wall is that they do not prove ID of the person found in the residence who may have broken in. Remember, all the cops had to go on in that case was a person was seen trying to force open a door of the residence in question. Therefore, the person they found in the home may have read the degrees on the wall and then taken the name from them for his own. That's why ID on the person would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I'm familiar with a lot of his work, and I know what he looked like back when he was popular, but I certainly wouldn't recognize him as a 68 year old... Nor would it matter if you did.....produce the ID or be subject to futher police scrutiny. It is standard procedure for police officers to ID subjects, check for outstanding warrants, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Seems odd to me that the police would roll up on somebody and demand ID for just walking down the street.Aren't they supposed to have "probable cause" to stop someone? Someone who lived in the neighborhood phoned the police about a man wandering around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) The issue with degrees on the wall is that they do not prove ID of the person found in the residence who may have broken in. When it matches the name on the ID the person provides? That's how I've heard things went. You're reaching as far as the cop was. Edited August 16, 2009 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) When it matches the name on the ID the person provides? That's how I've heard things went. You're reaching as far as the cop was. I first understood it the way you are, too, but the problem is that Gates initially refused to give his ID. http://wbztv.com/local/obama.comment.cambr....2.1097782.html Sgt. James Crowley, who is a police academy expert on racial profiling, responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism. "I acted appropriately," Crowley told WBZ Radio's Carl Stevens Thursday. "Mister Gates was given plenty of opportunities to stop what he was doing. He didn't. He acted very irrational he controlled the outcome of that event." "There was a lot of yelling, there was references to my mother, something you wouldn't expect from anybody that should be grateful that you were there investigating a report of a crime in progress, let alone a Harvard University professor." Edited August 16, 2009 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Someone who lived in the neighborhood phoned the police about a man wandering around. I gathered as much, but "wandering around" isn't against the law, not on a public street anyway. Am I missing something here? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Am I missing something here? Questions like that could wind up getting you tasered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I gathered as much, but "wandering around" isn't against the law, not on a public street anyway. Am I missing something here? -k If someone phones the police about a person the police have to check it out even if it's just a guy walking around. It's happened to me a couple of times and the cops did pretty much what they did in this case. They asked me for my ID, I showed it to them and then they left. It's stupid but it's standard procedure. Edited August 16, 2009 by TrueMetis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I gathered as much, but "wandering around" isn't against the law, not on a public street anyway. Am I missing something here? It was pouring rain and he was described as "looking scruffy" with "two raincoats pulled over his head," and he entered the yard of a house with a for sale sign in the yard. link The yard, of course, would be private property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) It was pouring rain and he was described as "looking scruffy" with "two raincoats pulled over his head," and he entered the yard of a house with a for sale sign in the yard. link The yard, of course, would be private property. That makes sense, then. If someone phones the police about a person the police have to check it out even if it's just a guy walking around. It's happened to me a couple of times and the cops did pretty much what they did in this case. They asked me for my ID, I showed it to them and then they left.It's stupid but it's standard procedure. But this doesn't make sense to me. I'm still of the belief that the police have to have reason to stop you. Even if somebody phones to complain... unless the caller provides information that you're committing some sort of offense, that doesn't sound like "probable cause" to me. -k Edited August 16, 2009 by kimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Rider Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 If someone phones the police about a person the police have to check it out even if it's just a guy walking around. It's happened to me a couple of times and the cops did pretty much what they did in this case. They asked me for my ID, I showed it to them and then they left.It's stupid but it's standard procedure. Welcome to 1984......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Welcome to 1984......... If it's not true then I need to sue my local police station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 A guy I know owns the house Neil Young grew up in. When Dylan was in town last year, he showed up there too. He and his wife were coming home from Costco and saw two scruffy guys out front of the house with a Yahoo maps printout of their neighbourhood. His wife didn't recognize him and was taken aback when her husband offered to give them a tour. She stayed out front and talked to the waiting cab driver as they went inside because she didn't want to go inside with these two strange men. He said he felt kind of weird showing him his laundry room with dirty laundry all over the floor, but he was very polite. The story was so good, it got around fast and soon the international media was calling him at all hours. They even asked Dylan about it in a recent Rolling Stone interview, and he said yes, he likes going around and looking at places where his musical influences lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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