Oleg Bach Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Good work benny...been a pleasure...don't forget to take out the garbage before you close up shop --- and make sure my coffee is brewing in the morning..If you get time send me a message and explain your platform..from what I gather...there is a new party slowly being formed. Does it have a title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Good work benny...been a pleasure...don't forget to take out the garbage before you close up shop --- and make sure my coffee is brewing in the morning..If you get time send me a message and explain your platform..from what I gather...there is a new party slowly being formed. Does it have a title? Confused!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Confused!? I can't stand the word....so are you confused or are you insinuating that I am in disorder? I asked a simple question -- Is there a new party forming - and are you a member ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 I can't stand the word....so are you confused or are you insinuating that I am in disorder? I asked a simple question -- Is there a new party forming - and are you a member ? I have a private mailbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1 Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 I can't stand the word....so are you confused or are you insinuating that I am in disorder? I asked a simple question -- Is there a new party forming - and are you a member ? Lol you don't need to belong to a party to have a set of ideas or platform looks to me your the one doing the insinuating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Lol you don't need to belong to a party to have a set of ideas or platform looks to me your the one doing the insinuating. Oleg is referring here to other dead threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm usually pretty quick to defend our system, especially when it comes to misinformation regarding it coming from the U.S. However, I see no problem at all with at least some increased privately run care in this country. You can't just open the flood gates, but things like MRIs and CT scans should absolutely be allowed to be offered by fully private clinics. I'm not buying the fear-mongering either. Even if the rich guy does get to "jump out of line" to get care at a private facility, that still means that MY line is shorter (so he's doing me a favour), and the public care facility now has more resources at their disposal because he isn't even using his healthcare tax dollars. That means they can hire more staff, pay them better, and get more diagnostic equipment. The feared "brain drain" is nonsense too, IMO. First, the market for that care is self-limiting. Only so many people are going to pay extra for the great care they are already getting anyway. As long as the public system is entrenched in law, the scales will never tip in favour of for-profit. Besides that, I think it's comforting to know that the doctors I'm seeing are the ones who see me as patient that they want to help rather than just another wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
segnosaur Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Polls this year don't agree:http://www.harrisdecima.com/en/downloads/p...ses/071009E.pdf Yes, I am aware of some polls which show the majority of people who don't like the idea of private heatlh care. Personally, I would be a bit hesitant to trust this particular poll... the reason? Because, they asked multiple questions, one question on 'American Style' health care, the next on 'increased privatization'. My opinion is that they kind of 'poisoned the well' by doing so, since any question following the "American style health care" question will cause some people to assume "privatization" means going to an all-for-profit system, even if the survey actually wanted to know if they wanted a public/private mix. It would kind of like an interviewer asking people "How many live kittens do you think Harper eats in a day"? "Do you think the prime minister is a good guy"? (I am speaking partly from personal experience here... I've been involved in designing surveys before. Never for such a wide audience, but we did have to be very careful about doing anything that might mislead people.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 However, I see no problem at all with at least some increased privately run care in this country. You can't just open the flood gates, but things like MRIs and CT scans should absolutely be allowed to be offered by fully private clinics. Manitoba had a contract for MRIs privately for three years but didn't renew it nor put up tenders for another company to do it. This in part led to a longer waiting list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Manitoba had a contract for MRIs privately for three years but didn't renew it nor put up tenders for another company to do it. This in part led to a longer waiting list. I see you missed his point. He is talking about private citizens being able to decide to jump the line to go to a private clinic not a government paying a private clinic to take their over flow. One is a two tier health care system which we are talking about in this thread, the other is single payer which we already have. Helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Manitoba had a contract for MRIs privately for three years but didn't renew it nor put up tenders for another company to do it. This in part led to a longer waiting list. Where was the Invisible Hand!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 I see you missed his point. He is talking about private citizens being able to decide to jump the line to go to a private clinic not a government paying a private clinic to take their over flow. One is a two tier health care system which we are talking about in this thread, the other is single payer which we already have. Helpful? I think you missed the point. I was talking about how the capacity to keep people from jumping to private MRIs elsewhere was hurt by the government not putting up a tender for the service. Helpful? People now will go to other provinces or the States if they want to clear the five month wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Manitoba had a contract for MRIs privately for three years but didn't renew it nor put up tenders for another company to do it. This in part led to a longer waiting list. Why is everybody so cheap? What's this buisness about "contracts for MRIs?" How come the provinces just don't buy the machines out right - and hire contractors only to maintain them? Save a penny lose a dollar I guess. There should be no shortage of machines..nor should there be a crisis in regards to radio active materials? Who the hell was in charge of the Chalk River facility? Why were they not doing their job? And who allowed us to fall so low that it opened the door to private enterprise? Some one screwed up somewhere - either by accident - loss of due diligence or plain old fashioned crookery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Why is everybody so cheap? What's this buisness about "contracts for MRIs?" How come the provinces just don't buy the machines out right - and hire contractors only to maintain them? They do buy them. However, the demand has gone up due to medical procedures that didn't exist decades earlier. Excess capacity can be handled privately if the government tenders services. This results in reduced wait lists. This isn't two tier. It is a public service working with private sources to fulfill timeliness to the patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 They do buy them. However, the demand has gone up due to medical procedures that didn't exist decades earlier.Excess capacity can be handled privately if the government tenders services. This results in reduced wait lists. This isn't two tier. It is a public service working with private sources to fulfill timeliness to the patient. As long as private enterprise does not create medical monopoly - and profiting through our weakest members does not become an on going buisness venture- with no limits to greed - then I agree - But who is to oversee this mixture of private assistance and publicly controled assistance in the health field? That's the problem - we don't want to let the fox into the hen house and become dependant on those that eat us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 As long as private enterprise does not create medical monopoly - and profiting through our weakest members does not become an on going buisness venture- with no limits to greed - then I agree - But who is to oversee this mixture of private assistance and publicly controled assistance in the health field? That's the problem - we don't want to let the fox into the hen house and become dependant on those that eat us. Since it is a government service contracted out, it is overseen by the Auditor General, an independent arm of government. As I said, this isn't two tier. It is like anything else the government buys. In this case, it is a service and as such, it has to meet criteria as set by the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Since it is a government service contracted out, it is overseen by the Auditor General, an independent arm of government. As I said, this isn't two tier. It is like anything else the government buys. In this case, it is a service and as such, it has to meet criteria as set by the government. Just hope the Auditor General has a high quality staff...maybe we should have a close look at this office - no point in experimenting with a system..if those that oversee the system are not good at what they do..lets find out who's driving this machine first..THEN bring about change - IF we bring about change and just mouth the term "Auditor General" - as if it's a failsafe mechanizm..that could be a disaster..I don't know much about this Auditor - and I suppose most others don't have a clue either. They must be examined first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Just hope the Auditor General has a high quality staff...maybe we should have a close look at this office - no point in experimenting with a system..if those that oversee the system are not good at what they do..lets find out who's driving this machine first..THEN bring about change - IF we bring about change and just mouth the term "Auditor General" - as if it's a failsafe mechanizm..that could be a disaster..I don't know much about this Auditor - and I suppose most others don't have a clue either. They must be examined first. I think the Auditor federally is considered one of the most respected figures in government by most people. Independent. Good staff. Feared by politicians and civil service for the bright spotlight they shine on government activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Manitoba had a contract for MRIs privately for three years but didn't renew it nor put up tenders for another company to do it. The issue with the contract with Maples was a different sort of incompetence. They didn't properly vet the facility, and only found out after they signed the contract that the MRI images were poor quality. The contract wasn't renewed because the service was substandard. The whole lot at WRHA should be fired, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 The issue with the contract with Maples was a different sort of incompetence. They didn't properly vet the facility, and only found out after they signed the contract that the MRI images were poor quality. The contract wasn't renewed because the service was substandard.The whole lot at WRHA should be fired, IMO. Exactly - where was the Auditor General? His office should have asked this one question - are the machines of good quality? You don't go out with a wishful and naive attitude and by a Lada just because someone is selling one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 The issue with the contract with Maples was a different sort of incompetence. They didn't properly vet the facility, and only found out after they signed the contract that the MRI images were poor quality. The contract wasn't renewed because the service was substandard.The whole lot at WRHA should be fired, IMO. It was a political decision to sign that contract. Doer didn't want two tier medicine but it was hitting him square in the face in 2005. He pushed for a settlement rather than contracting it out with proper tendering. It was sole sourced which we know can lead to problems no matter which government is doing it. The problem is that Doer didn't put the contract up to renewed tender. We have gone 18 months without trying to find a way to reduce excess capacity. The government gave up rather than put solid criteria in a tendering process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Exactly - where was the Auditor General? His office should have asked this one question - are the machines of good quality? You don't go out with a wishful and naive attitude and by a Lada just because someone is selling one. Past Auditor General's reports have mentioned the problem of sole sourcing a contract. This is just an example of why. The whole contract was done hastily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Past Auditor General's reports have mentioned the problem of sole sourcing a contract. This is just an example of why. The whole contract was done hastily. Kickbacks speed things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Kickbacks speed things up. Once you get kicked back - you send the kicker back to Germany..and literally kick him back to where he came from..out of sight and out of mind...Mulroney must have known that dear Karl - would be sent packing and all would forget in a year of the little indiscretion. Kick backs don't appear as such these days - you help a friend of a friend of a friend - and a friend eventually helps you..so this chain of friendliness is to complex to follow or trace - It's called the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Once you get kicked back - you send the kicker back to Germany..and literally kick him back to where he came from..out of sight and out of mind...Mulroney must have known that dear Karl - would be sent packing and all would forget in a year of the little indiscretion. Kick backs don't appear as such these days - you help a friend of a friend of a friend - and a friend eventually helps you..so this chain of friendliness is to complex to follow or trace - It's called the club. German-based Siemens is the one to watch for kickbacks in the medical field. It was legal for Germans to corrupt foreign officials up until recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.