benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 So it is OK to import thousands of medical and other professional emigres from so called third-world nations that desperately need them, but not OK for Canadians to leave without paying back the money? All to the contrary, Canada has to become a model other nations want to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 All to the contrary, Canada has to become a model other nations want to follow. Canada already is that model. Those that say our system is flawed do it out of envy - because they could not achieve what we have. Sure it was an old socialist that concieved our system of health care- but this person was not an extremist..our system is blended together to take care of all...left thinkers - right thinkers and centralist moderates - we are in balance.. But I do resent the private companies that drive those second rate ambulances around - where they treat our aged like logs of wood....I have seen private companies toss a 90 year old woman about as if she was garbage - hearing her cry out in pain was not exceptable...point being - quality of care has nothing to do with money..but with attitude. Health care or caring of the aged and sick for profit is not exceptable - abuse occurs. In the mean time we have a few issues regarding quality that can be quickly corrected - If companies enter into the area of medical care - I don't want some dumb immigrant looking at little old white ladies as things....there must be over sight. LAW that governs quality of care and protects the weak. We need a tune up...a tweaking of the sytem - Not a replacement of it. I guess you will not understand what I mean by "tuning" or "tweeking" - It's conceptual language... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFCaper Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 For Canada to remain competitive with the US, I favour the stick approach with health professionals rather than the carrot approach that you are proposing: As soon as health professionals go work in the US, Canada should consider them having debts towards Canada, so that if they want to enter in Canada, even for a quick visit, they have to pay, at the border, the full price of what Canada lost by their departures. Maybe we should do this within provinces for all people. Since my education was funded by NS, since I now live in Ontario, I should be banned from NS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Maybe we should do this within provinces for all people. Since my education was funded by NS, since I now live in Ontario, I should be banned from NS... No because there is an equalization formula being applied in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 All to the contrary, Canada has to become a model other nations want to follow. Oh sure...a model stepping stone to the USA (that's why Shona Holmes found Canadian doctors in Arizona). They sure as hell don't want to model you health care system.....as there are far better examples elsewhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Oh sure...a model stepping stone to the USA (that's why Shona Holmes found Canadian doctors in Arizona). Shona Holmes partly paid her US doctors with stolen Canadian money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Oh sure...a model stepping stone to the USA (that's why Shona Holmes found Canadian doctors in Arizona). They sure as hell don't want to model you health care system.....as there are far better examples elsewhere in the world. With socialized medicine..a power structure formed. A monopoly is in place here in Canada. With this has come a very insidious way of a group to tap into the public purse and write their own ticket. Our buisness leaders - the old guard usually sit on the boards of most large hospitals. They also have great control over our judical system - and our system of charity (incrimental genocide) We really do not have socialized medicine - we have a huge and fantastic private system - so broad and so intertwined that it makes your system seem more transparent...When you have big buisness launder money though the welfare system - by having thousands upon thousands of welfare reciepients addicted to synthetic opiates.....drugs payed for by the tax payer - and ALL profits going to the private sector...it's called a racket..........................Look at the companies that sell scooters for the disabled - some of them up to 5000 bucks a unit...all you have to do is get fat and you get one...we have a sweet deal going on in Canada - we are totally privatized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Shona Holmes partly paid her US doctors with stolen Canadian money. No, it is no longer socialized health care if she tries to get treatment outside of Canada? That's a pretty strange stance to take, seeing that you happily "steal" doctors, nurses, engineers, professors, etc. from other nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Look at the companies that sell scooters for the disabled - some of them up to 5000 bucks a unit...all you have to do is get fat and you get one...we have a sweet deal going on in Canada - we are totally privatized. Happily participating in what one is decrying is called complacency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Happily participating in what one is decrying is called complacency. I am not a participant. I am an observer. Sometimes I report what I see - if others can not see it. Having watched for over 40 years has given me insight. My perception might be off on occassion - and I may be incorrect or half correct..but at least I try to give the reader something to think about, that they have not thought about. If that reader is more skilled in an area than I _ I hope they take it to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 No, it is no longer socialized health care if she tries to get treatment outside of Canada? The money that paid for Holmes treatments in the US partly comes from the all-encompassing Canadian welfare system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 The money that paid for Holmes treatments in the US partly comes from the all-encompassing Canadian welfare system. There is no welfare system in Canada - just a very large system that is akin to house arrest - a very large house at that. Holmes' treatment came from private hands - with money controlled by the private sector - that uses the term 'welfare" system - to appear benevolent and socialistic...Canada is a private estate run by a few people..and we are cows....with health "care" You can go on and on about socialism - all socialism has always been controlled by arch capitalists. Look at old Nazi Germany - and the National Socialist Party - This socialism was brought into being by capitalists....The problem we are having with health care and the "two-tier' system is that our rich don't want to sneak about getting the best care - maybe they want the fact open - that they get the best doctors ...usually by referal because they have friends who went to school with these doctors..- It's a class thing..and the upper class should be entitled to have what they want -- and not have to hide it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I am not a participant. I am an observer. You are a participant if only by posting smileys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 The money that paid for Holmes treatments in the US partly comes from the all-encompassing Canadian welfare system. Only if she wins her case.....that's why I think she should get compensated for at least the cost of the treatment if it had been done in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Only if she wins her case... No. Just by having received for free the Canadian citizenship at birth, Holmes can be said to owe something to other Canadians who have had to pay to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 No. Just by having received for free the Canadian citizenship at birth, Holmes can be said to owe something to other Canadians who have had to pay to get it. What? I think you have issues unrelated to Holmes or health care. OTOH, I am just a dumb yankee and don't understand your crazy ass internecine warfare when it comes to Canadian citizenship and immigration....sheeeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 What? I think you have issues unrelated to Holmes or health care. OTOH, I am just a dumb yankee and don't understand your crazy ass internecine warfare when it comes to Canadian citizenship and immigration....sheeeesh. Canada has a "cradle-to-grave" (i.e. all-encompassing, integrated) welfare system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Canada has a "cradle-to-grave" (i.e. all-encompassing, integrated) welfare system. So why do you resent Shona Holmes' citizenship "by birth"? Do you feel cheated out of your money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 So why do you resent Shona Holmes' citizenship "by birth"? Do you feel cheated out of your money? Like her, I was born in Canada so, like her, I received my citizenship status for free. Foreign-born Canadians though have all the reasons to say that their efforts to get the Canadian citizenship status had been, in part, stolen by Holmes and given to American doctors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Like her, I was born in Canada so, like her, I received my citizenship status for free. Foreign-born Canadians though have all the reasons to say that their efforts to get the Canadian citizenship status had been, in part, stolen by Holmes and given to American doctors. That's not true, but is beside the point. "Citizenship" is not a gift....it is a legal status with rights and responsibilities. It cannot be bought or sold like a commodity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 That's not true, but is beside the point. "Citizenship" is not a gift....it is a legal status with rights and responsibilities. It cannot be bought or sold like a commodity. It's like being born into a family or adopted into a family. You have duties - you have loyalty to adhere too. BUT as you see the trend within the traditional nulear family - that being the disrespect of family - of the patriarchy - the matriarchy and the duty of child to parent - and parent to child...There is a spill over effect that has infected nationalism - and opened the door to a boarderless world where there is no loyality or importance to citizenship...With the old Roman Empire, if you were a citizen...you were untouchable - but you had a duty to Rome - to the extended family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 That's not true, but is beside the point. "Citizenship" is not a gift....it is a legal status with rights and responsibilities. It cannot be bought or sold like a commodity. There is both a legal and a black markets of Canadian papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 There is both a legal and a black markets of Canadian papers. As a good party member - give me names benny! Who is selling the false papers? Do your duty and be a good fellow...the state first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 There is both a legal and a black markets of Canadian papers. So what.....the same is true for dope. You are the one devaluing citizenship, not Shona Holmes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 So what.....the same is true for dope. You are the one devaluing citizenship, not Shona Holmes. Doctors without boarders? They hate citizenship too - but are more than willing to take Canadian money to fund their excursions of mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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