Fed Public Servants top ranked...

[ironstone]

From the Ottawa Citizen,July 25th/2009:Workers in the federal public service continue to have the highest rates of absenteeism in the country,and they are shooting upwards in step with an economy-wide increase in days away from work over the last 10 years.According to Statistics Canada,last year federal employees were absent from scheduled work 16.2 days on average,between sick leave.family demands,and other reasons.This is in addition to vacation days,maternity leave and other scheduled time off.

Pathetic,16.2 days of sick leave(yeah right!) missed annually.They get more time off for allegedly being sick than many private sector workers get in their alloted vacation time.If there were any justice in this country,they would be brought back in line with their private sector counterparts.This is abuse and fraud,pure and simple.

[Smallc]

Or, the public service is using sick time like it should be, and people in the private sector are afraid to. Perhaps the private sector should have to give better sick benefits?

[Argus]

From the Ottawa Citizen,July 25th/2009:Workers in the federal public service continue to have the highest rates of absenteeism in the country,and they are shooting upwards in step with an economy-wide increase in days away from work over the last 10 years.According to Statistics Canada,last year federal employees were absent from scheduled work 16.2 days on average,between sick leave.family demands,and other reasons.This is in addition to vacation days,maternity leave and other scheduled time off.

Pathetic,16.2 days of sick leave(yeah right!) missed annually.

Let's just say these statistics are questionable at best. Federal civil servants get 9.375hrs of sick leave per month. That works out to 15 days per year. The article is suggesting that "the average" civil servant, not only takes every single sick day they can, but takes more than that!

And yet, not that many years ago when I was a clerk and inputting sick leave and taking care of sick leave and vacation issues involving HR, I routinely found that employees who had worked for the government for some years had accumulated hundreds, sometimes thousands of hours of unused sick leave. And no, they don't get to cash it out when they retire.

They get more time off for allegedly being sick than many private sector workers get in their alloted vacation time.If there were any justice in this country,they would be brought back in line with their private sector counterparts.This is abuse and fraud,pure and simple.

Or maybe the private sector should get more holidays. In Europe, employees START with six weeks of paid vacation per year, and go up from there. They get more sick days and they get far more statutory holidays than we do. Yet they still seem to outdo us in productivity.

[ironstone]

Or, the public service is using sick time like it should be, and people in the private sector are afraid to. Perhaps the private sector should have to give better sick benefits?

Do you honestly believe these people get sick that often?What are the odds that most days missed are Mondays and Fridays.Come on,deep down you know as well as I do that most of these "sick"days are not used for sickness.I work in the private sector and I get 3 sick days a year.To date,I have missed a grand total of 1 day because of illness.I go to public places like shopping malls and am exposed to the same germs as just about everybody else is.Your suggestion that the private sector should give the same amount of sick leave is totally unrealistic.productivity would fall and prices would soar,which would benefit no one in the long term.

[Smallc]

As a person with a certificate in Occupational Health, and safety, what you and I consider as sick is probably very different. Sick is not just about having a cold.

[Smallc]

Your suggestion that the private sector should give the same amount of sick leave is totally unrealistic.productivity would fall and prices would soar,which would benefit no one in the long term.

Prove it. That's not the way things are in Europe.

[Argus]

Do you honestly believe these people get sick that often?What are the odds that most days missed are Mondays and Fridays

In fact, if you read the article, it does not say they use up that many days of sick leave each year. It says they are off that many days each year. There is a very distinct difference.

Let me do some simple math. Say you have ten employees. Nine of those employees miss an average of 4 days per year. Oh, but wait, the 10th employee had a bad heart attack and was off on long term leave for six months.

Total employees 10

Total days missed by employees 156

Average days missed per employee 15.6 days per year.

[tango]

From the Ottawa Citizen,July 25th/2009:Workers in the federal public service continue to have the highest rates of absenteeism in the country,and they are shooting upwards in step with an economy-wide increase in days away from work over the last 10 years.According to Statistics Canada,last year federal employees were absent from scheduled work 16.2 days on average,between sick leave.family demands,and other reasons.This is in addition to vacation days,maternity leave and other scheduled time off.

Pathetic,16.2 days of sick leave(yeah right!) missed annually.They get more time off for allegedly being sick than many private sector workers get in their alloted vacation time.If there were any justice in this country,they would be brought back in line with their private sector counterparts.This is abuse and fraud,pure and simple.

Please include the link.

I'm curious about these numbers as they don't make sense. Perhaps they include those on long term sick leave? In the private sector, there either is no long term sick leave(they get fired instead), or it's private insurance and not counted in company sick days.

I think this is just more bias against the public service.

Need to check your reference for further clarification.

Edited July 29, 2009 by tango

[Argus]

Please include the link.

I'm curious about these numbers as they don't make sense. Perhaps they include those on long term sick leave? In the private sector, there either is no long term sick leave(they get fired instead), or it's private insurance and not counted in company sick days.

Yes, someone mentioned a friend of theirs (in the health care topic) who got cancer, and when he told Toyota that he was going to be off for a couple of months, and why, they fired him immediately.

Is that really the way we want to go? Is that the example the federal government should be setting?

[Moonbox]

I'm not going to argue numbers or figures but I think there is probably a VERY strong relationship between public service unions and an increased rate of 'sick/family emergency' days on Mondays and Fridays.

[Argus]

I'm not going to argue numbers or figures but I think there is probably a VERY strong relationship between public service unions and an increased rate of 'sick/family emergency' days on Mondays and Fridays.

Yes, I understand 40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays!

[Topaz]

By the way the talk is going on here, it seems we may have a Federal strike on our hands when their contract is up. If the government is going after people on E-Bay for taxes for what they sell, the Fed. workers are in for a long strike and so are Canadians, so get ready when services are cut due to the strike. BTW, do any of you know when their contracts are up?

[tango]

Yes, I understand 40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays!

Yes, that would be because Mon and Fri constitute 40% of the work week.

2days/5days=40% of the work week.

Then 20% on each of the other days. In other words, the proportion of sick days taken is exactly the same each weekday.

[Shady]

From the Ottawa Citizen,July 25th/2009:Workers in the federal public service continue to have the highest rates of absenteeism in the country,and they are shooting upwards in step with an economy-wide increase in days away from work over the last 10 years.According to Statistics Canada,last year federal employees were absent from scheduled work 16.2 days on average,between sick leave.family demands,and other reasons.This is in addition to vacation days,maternity leave and other scheduled time off.

Pathetic,16.2 days of sick leave(yeah right!) missed annually.They get more time off for allegedly being sick than many private sector workers get in their alloted vacation time.If there were any justice in this country,they would be brought back in line with their private sector counterparts.This is abuse and fraud,pure and simple.

Good post. It's just another example of the public sector feeding at the trough of the private sector. Public sector employees get very well paid, and enjoy considerably better benefits on the backs of the productive private sector workers. As companies try and survive and compete during a world wide recession, they're having to concede some pay, and some benefits. However, public sector employees seem to come off unharmed from such recessions. They continue to ask and receive pay raises, and benefit increases. And how do they achieve these increaes? By dipping into the pockets of the private sector. It's pretty disgusting.

Yet they still seem to outdo us in productivity.

Not true. European countries are, and have been some of the slowest growing economies of the industrialized world, with higher deficits, and higher unemployment, with lesser productivity.

Just once I'd like the public sector to be affected by a recession in the same way the private, productive sector of society is. Maybe then, they'd have a real understanding of what it's like to have to compete and survive in a global economy, without the luxury of somebody elses pocket to pick in order to cushion the blow.

[tango]

Good post. It's just another example of the public sector feeding at the trough of the private sector. Public sector employees get very well paid, and enjoy considerably better benefits on the backs of the productive private sector workers. As companies try and survive and compete during a world wide recession, they're having to concede some pay, and some benefits. However, public sector employees seem to come off unharmed from such recessions. They continue to ask and receive pay raises, and benefit increases. And how do they achieve these increaes? By dipping into the pockets of the private sector. It's pretty disgusting.

Not true. European countries are, and have been some of the slowest growing economies of the industrialized world, with higher deficits, and higher unemployment, with lesser productivity.

Just once I'd like the public sector to be affected by a recession in the same way the private, productive sector of society is. Maybe then, they'd have a real understanding of what it's like to have to compete and survive in a global economy, without the luxury of somebody elses pocket to pick in order to cushion the blow.

Such a steaming pile of crap! The public sector is always affected by budget cuts and downsizing during a recession.

I think the problem is just an imaginary "the grass is always greener somewhere else" phenomenon in the private sector. It's certainly not based on any reality.

[Shady]

Such a steaming pile of crap!

Perhaps you're just not familiar with reality.

Toronto Workers to Keep Banked Sick Days, Get Raise, Globe Says

July 28 (Bloomberg) -- Toronto’s unionized workers, who reached a tentative deal with the city to end a five-week strike yesterday, will still be able to bank sick days and will get raises of 6 percent over three years, the Globe and Mail said.

Bloomberg

Hmm, let's see. A deep, world-wide recession, coupled with a large drop in the City of Toronto's revenue stream, apparently equals a 6% raise! Gee, where can I get that kind of deal? Where do I sign?

Again, they're totally insulated from reality.

.

[Argus]

By the way the talk is going on here, it seems we may have a Federal strike on our hands when their contract is up. If the government is going after people on E-Bay for taxes for what they sell, the Fed. workers are in for a long strike and so are Canadians, so get ready when services are cut due to the strike. BTW, do any of you know when their contracts are up?

As far as I know our contract is for three years and was only signed last year. However, the feds arbitrarily reneged on the contract they signed in order to lower the increase to 1%. Both main federal unions have gone to court over that. I don't see any likelihood of a full scale strike. Maybe some trouble making is going to happen, but I haven't heard it.

[Argus]

Not true. European countries are, and have been some of the slowest growing economies of the industrialized world, with higher deficits, and higher unemployment, with lesser productivity.

Whereas Canada was once ranked at a lofty 3rd out of 23 OECD nations in its level of productivity in 1960, it now sits at a lowly 17th out of 24, behind virtually the full complement of Western European nations including the United Kingdom, Germany, and France. Canada also trails after some smaller counties, such as Finland, Australia, and Ireland

TD bank

[CANADIEN]

We have all seen it. People coming to work what a bad (I mean BAD) cold and giving it to the whole building. People who can barely function because of a migraine trying to put a day's work. People coming back too early after injuries or illness. All that because they are too afraid to be labelled as lazy, or even to be fired.

Anybody think that's acceptable? Would they want to be around a guy who handles heavy machinery but is too sick to do it properly?

Edited July 31, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Topaz]

I like to see the records for the politicans and why they weren't present in the Commons. I know Fridays, most of them cut the Commons to fly home but that too, how many private workers get to fly home, better yet how many private sector worker can afford it?

[tango]

I like to see the records for the politicans and why they weren't present in the Commons. I know Fridays, most of them cut the Commons to fly home but that too, how many private workers get to fly home, better yet how many private sector worker can afford it?

The comparison should be to private sector managers, and we all know how they spend taxpayer bailout money!

Friday is constituency day for MP's. It's nice that they spend some time talking to constituents.

Edited July 31, 2009 by tango

[tango]

Whereas Canada was once ranked at a lofty 3rd out of 23 OECD nations in its level of productivity in 1960, it now sits at a lowly 17th out of 24, behind virtually the full complement of Western European nations including the United Kingdom, Germany, and France. Canada also trails after some smaller counties, such as Finland, Australia, and Ireland

TD bank

Isn't that mostly due to the private sector?

The private sector is going through a time of massive change, especially manufacturing and all related industries. I sympathize with the workers and, to a lesser extent, the management.

We always tend to lash out when facing difficulties, but that doesn't mean it is correct to blaming the public sector.

Edited July 31, 2009 by tango

[Visionseeker]

In fact, if you read the article, it does not say they use up that many days of sick leave each year. It says they are off that many days each year. There is a very distinct difference.

Let me do some simple math. Say you have ten employees. Nine of those employees miss an average of 4 days per year. Oh, but wait, the 10th employee had a bad heart attack and was off on long term leave for six months.

Total employees 10

Total days missed by employees 156

Average days missed per employee 15.6 days per year.

Argus!!! I think we've finally found something on which we actually agree.

A man I've worked with for 12 plus years rarely took a day off sick (maybe 3 days over 12 years). But in October, a cancer diagnosis had him go full bore 30 days until long term kicked in.

Meanwhile, I myself used all my 2008 and 2009 family related leave days (10), the equivalent of 7 vacation days taken as partial days off, and 12 sick days from April 2008 until May 2009 when I recorded 5 days of bereavement after my mother succumbed to cancer - a fight that I couldn't let her wage alone - hence all the leave taken. Now this study doesn't seem to address vacation entitlements, but even without those partial days off bringing mom to CT scans, ultrasounds and chimo sessions, that's 27 days in less than a year.

Am I thankful that my employer and bargaining unit created a regime that made such leave possible? Absolutely! But does my taking such leave suggest that I'm some kind of sloth, absolutely not.

My own anecdotal observations suggest that the federal public service is in a demographic pickle, a perfect sick leave storm as it were, where the number of employees with young families and those with older age concerns are exerting a disproportionate influence on workplace absenteeism.

[tango]

Perhaps you're just not familiar with reality.

Toronto Workers to Keep Banked Sick Days, Get Raise, Globe Says

July 28 (Bloomberg) -- Toronto’s unionized workers, who reached a tentative deal with the city to end a five-week strike yesterday, will still be able to bank sick days and will get raises of 6 percent over three years, the Globe and Mail said.

Bloomberg

Hmm, let's see. A deep, world-wide recession, coupled with a large drop in the City of Toronto's revenue stream, apparently equals a 6% raise! Gee, where can I get that kind of deal? Where do I sign?

Again, they're totally insulated from reality.

.

I understand that banked sick days are not paid out. They simply amount to a longer term sick leave plan. I don't see that as a big deal.