Progressive Conservatives

[Topaz]

I came across this article and I think its good reading and asked the question are the PC's actual gone from Canada's poilitical arena? Could the PC's come back and IF they did how many would leave the Conservatives to go back to the original Conservative party? http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/667580

[Sir Bandelot]

A new conservative party would be welcome n Canada. I bet a large number of cpc members would leave to join it. Of course they would fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening. Bring back the Progrssive Conservatives, we need a revival. Take away the phoney legitimacy of these radical right wing nut jobs. Keep them marginalized, where they belong.

[Craig1]

I came across this article and I think its good reading and asked the question are the PC's actual gone from Canada's poilitical arena? Could the PC's come back and IF they did how many would leave the Conservatives to go back to the original Conservative party? http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/667580

I say let em keep raining on us for a while the tories are losing ground in the west its foothold give it 2 years and no province will vote torie ever again you think NDP are bad look at what STELMACHE did to ALBERTA. '-------harpers bum buddy

[segnosaur]

A new conservative party would be welcome n Canada. I bet a large number of cpc members would leave to join it. Of course they would fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening. Bring back the Progrssive Conservatives, we need a revival. Take away the phoney legitimacy of these radical right wing nut jobs. Keep them marginalized, where they belong.

First of all, why are you characterizing the conserviatives as 'radical right wing nut jobs'? That's a rather over-broad statement.

Every political party in Canada consists of individuals who may have differing opinions. Yes, the Conservatives do have some nutcases, but they also have people who are reasonable. (Look at it this way... should Iggnatief and the rest of the Liberals be considered "left wing" because Bob Rae, former NDPer, is a member?)

And are their policies REALLY that far to the "political right" as mainstream Canada? For example, Many people think the Conservatives were wrong in opposing gay marriage. But remember, at the time the Liberals passed their bill, most Canadians were not in favour of gay marriage. In many cases, condemming conservative policies as being "radical right wing" is to condem the opinions of many Canadians.

Secondly, you may not like the conservatives, but what exactly would be the point in reviving the "Progressive Conservatives"? Frankly, I think the country should have clear alternatives. Having both a Liberal party and a Progressive Conservative party inhabiting much of the same part of the political spectrum doesn't really help us much.

[Alta4ever]

I say let em keep raining on us for a while the tories are losing ground in the west its foothold give it 2 years and no province will vote torie ever again you think NDP are bad look at what STELMACHE did to ALBERTA. '-------harpers bum buddy

If you knew anything about Alberta politics you would know Harper and ed are not friends. It also seems to me that the pcs have forgotten how to be conservative. A true conservative party has sprung up her the wildrose alliance. I am willing to bet much of the cpc support will go to it. I read an artical that said Tom flanigan bought

If he has switched to this party it must be on the up and up.

Conservatism dead....indeed.

[Craig1]

If you knew anything about Alberta politics you would know Harper and ed are not friends. It also seems to me that the pcs have forgotten how to be conservative. A true conservative party has sprung up her the wildrose alliance. I am willing to bet much of the cpc support will go to it. I read an artical that said Tom flanigan bought

If he has switched to this party it must be on the up and up.

Conservatism dead....indeed.

I know something and Stelmache is no Laugheed. Heès more a Harper fan

My opinon Wildrose just looks like the old boys club, right wing, same wing that drove this province into the ground

[Alta4ever]

I know something and Stelmache is no Laugheed. Heès more a Harper fan

My opinon Wildrose just looks like the old boys club, right wing, same wing that drove this province into the ground

Ed is what drove this province into the ground. Many that are invovled in the Wildrose also were the ones who helped get Preston mannings experiment off the ground.

[Alta4ever]

I can tell you in this province the vote won't swing to the Alberta Liberals or the Ndp. Even in a choice between these two and Ed Albertans picked Ed.

[Wild Bill]

I know something and Stelmache is no Laugheed. Heès more a Harper fan

My opinon Wildrose just looks like the old boys club, right wing, same wing that drove this province into the ground

I'm curious if you're old enough to remember when Reform clobbered the old Progressive Conservatives. Or perhaps you weren't interested in politics at that time.

I lived it so I can tell you, one of the major reasons so many left the PCs to join Reform was that the PCs had become known as very similar to the Liberals. There were a few key issues but most of the party planks were essentially the same. Elections were actually fought not on different philosophies but rather on "who has the best management team".

Canadians at the time were hungry for a clear alternative. They had become disenchanted with the Trudeau-style Liberals. Their wasteful attitude to finances had caught up to them and so people were hurting for jobs and to pay higher taxes.

So Mulroney came on the scene and promptly won the two highest number of seat victories in our history! The Liberals were shell-shocked at how badly they got turfed!

Yet after two terms it became obvious that the Mulroney boss was the same as the old boss, to paraphrase Roger Daltrey of the Who. He was just better at it!

Then Reform was formed and it seemed in a blink of an eye millions of Canadians joined with them! Not just out West, either. People often don't realize that Reform was up to well over a million votes in Ontario and was even making some modest inroads into Quebec. They knocked the PCs down to 2 seats after Mulroney! Later they climbed back to barely enough seats to be officially called a party, virtually all from Atlantic Canada only.

It doesn't matter if you personally like or dislike the PCs. It only matters if enough other Canadians would be willing to vote for them again. History says that's not very likely. The feeling was "Liberal, Tory, same old story", meaning that if the PCs were so similar to the Liberals why not just vote Liberal? What would be the point?

Whether they admit it to themselves or not, the people who champion a PC revival are really just trying to return to the old days, when our choices were limited to always be on the more liberal side of the street. If your favourite Liberal party happened to lose once in a while it wouldn't matter, 'cuz the other guys were almost the same anyway.

This is a VERY unhealthy way to run a democracy! Limiting peoples' choices always causes resentment that never goes away. During Mulroney's terms there was a label going around about "disenfranchised conservatives". This referred to conservatives that had to vote PC 'cuz there was no real conservative choice anyway. There was a quote leaked out of the PC inner circle that said "Let 'em complain! Who else can they vote for?"

As I said, what's important is what large numbers of voters think. You would do well to develop some objectivity. The world doesn't care about our wishes. It works by cause and effect under laws of the Universe.

Mother Nature doesn't care about our feelings!

You might also consider that one of the problems Harper is facing is that his party now seems too MUCH like the PCs! After all, the much larger Reform/Alliance party merged with the tiny rump of what was left of the PCs, yet ever since it has appeared that the new CPC is being run in the old PC way!

I suspect that if they followed YOUR advice the Liberals would throw themselves the biggest party they've ever had! All their prayers would have been answered.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Wild Bill

[Craig1]

I'm curious if you're old enough to remember when Reform clobbered the old Progressive Conservatives. Or perhaps you weren't interested in politics at that time.

I lived it so I can tell you, one of the major reasons so many left the PCs to join Reform was that the PCs had become known as very similar to the Liberals. There were a few key issues but most of the party planks were essentially the same. Elections were actually fought not on different philosophies but rather on "who has the best management team".

Canadians at the time were hungry for a clear alternative. They had become disenchanted with the Trudeau-style Liberals. Their wasteful attitude to finances had caught up to them and so people were hurting for jobs and to pay higher taxes.

So Mulroney came on the scene and promptly won the two highest number of seat victories in our history! The Liberals were shell-shocked at how badly they got turfed!

Yet after two terms it became obvious that the Mulroney boss was the same as the old boss, to paraphrase Roger Daltrey of the Who. He was just better at it!

Then Reform was formed and it seemed in a blink of an eye millions of Canadians joined with them! Not just out West, either. People often don't realize that Reform was up to well over a million votes in Ontario and was even making some modest inroads into Quebec. They knocked the PCs down to 2 seats after Mulroney! Later they climbed back to barely enough seats to be officially called a party, virtually all from Atlantic Canada only.

It doesn't matter if you personally like or dislike the PCs. It only matters if enough other Canadians would be willing to vote for them again. History says that's not very likely. The feeling was "Liberal, Tory, same old story", meaning that if the PCs were so similar to the Liberals why not just vote Liberal? What would be the point?

Whether they admit it to themselves or not, the people who champion a PC revival are really just trying to return to the old days, when our choices were limited to always be on the more liberal side of the street. If your favourite Liberal party happened to lose once in a while it wouldn't matter, 'cuz the other guys were almost the same anyway.

This is a VERY unhealthy way to run a democracy! Limiting peoples' choices always causes resentment that never goes away. During Mulroney's terms there was a label going around about "disenfranchised conservatives". This referred to conservatives that had to vote PC 'cuz there was no real conservative choice anyway. There was a quote leaked out of the PC inner circle that said "Let 'em complain! Who else can they vote for?"

As I said, what's important is what large numbers of voters think. You would do well to develop some objectivity. The world doesn't care about our wishes. It works by cause and effect under laws of the Universe.

Mother Nature doesn't care about our feelings!

You might also consider that one of the problems Harper is facing is that his party now seems too MUCH like the PCs! After all, the much larger Reform/Alliance party merged with the tiny rump of what was left of the PCs, yet ever since it has appeared that the new CPC is being run in the old PC way!

I suspect that if they followed YOUR advice the Liberals would throw themselves the biggest party they've ever had! All their prayers would have been answered.

Ya waaaaay before my time. But the reform got in bed with the cons i get it whats your point they did nothing to change things but took the first opertunity at majority power to suck MR. HArper off. From what i get history always reapeats itself so why should we trust a wildrose allianceÉ

[Alta4ever]

Ya waaaaay before my time. But the reform got in bed with the cons i get it whats your point they did nothing to change things but took the first opertunity at majority power to suck MR. HArper off. From what i get history always reapeats itself so why should we trust a wildrose allianceÉ

So its obvious that everthing bill told you is lost on you.

[Smallc]

The fact exists that a party with the same principles as the Reform Party would have about as much chance of forming government as the NDP. It can be seen time and again that Canadians don't vote for far right or far left. The like the things that Liberals do (even when they don't like the Liberal party), and that's why the Progressive Conservatives were able to form government and that's why the Conservatives were able to form government.

For the most part, Canadians are not ideologues, and so ideological based parties have very little chance of succeeding to any large measure.

[Alta4ever]

The fact exists that a party with the same principles as the Reform Party would have about as much chance of forming government as the NDP. It can be seen time and again that Canadians don't vote for far right or far left. The like the things that Liberals do (even when they don't like the Liberal party), and that's why the Progressive Conservatives were able to form government and that's why the Conservatives were able to form government.

For the most part, Canadians are not ideologues, and so ideological based parties have very little chance of succeeding to any large measure.

Reform was not far right, they were centre right. As for Alberta, they do have a great chance of forming government as people here are very fed up with stelmach, he has a leadership review comming up in November, and I bet that it will be a very close vote inside the party on whether or not to turf him. He has made a big mess.

[Craig1]

So its obvious that everthing bill told you is lost on you.

No its not lost i fully understand and coming from someone who does not side with any party. Preston Manning and his followers did jack squat for this country say one good thing they did anything like

Tommy douglas or Laugheed, no, wow mulroney brought in the GST and his crooked dealings with Shrieber woopdee do that suposeto sway me.

Show me a good politician someone i can believe in beause none of them have my suport. maybe NDP a little because they talk for the working man but thats about it.

[Alta4ever]

No its not lost i fully understand and coming from someone who does not side with any party. Preston Manning and his followers did jack squat for this country say one good thing they did anything like

Tommy douglas or Laugheed, no, wow mulroney brought in the GST and his crooked dealings with Shrieber woopdee do that suposeto sway me.

Show me a good politician someone i can believe in beause none of them have my suport. maybe NDP a little because they talk for the working man but thats about it.

They did jack squat? Really had it not been for mannings party, we would have had a western seperation party instead his actions kept Canada together.

[Wild Bill]

Ya waaaaay before my time. But the reform got in bed with the cons i get it whats your point they did nothing to change things but took the first opertunity at majority power to suck MR. HArper off. From what i get history always reapeats itself so why should we trust a wildrose allianceÉ

Hey, it's obvious you don't like the present cons or Mr. Harper. As I said, so what?

Your OP was about a revival of the old Progressive Conservatives. I gave you my opinion as to why I don't think they could get enough votes again to make that happen!

Again, I think you're seeing the world as you'd like it to be rather than the way it is. If you were working for a political party you could never actually win if you didn't deal with things the way they are.

You'd just be sitting around dreaming!

I personally think we'd be best off with Pete Traynor of Traynor guitar amplifiers as our Prime Minister, but I'm not naive enough to think it's ever gonna happen.

[Craig1]

Hey, it's obvious you don't like the present cons or Mr. Harper. As I said, so what?

Your OP was about a revival of the old Progressive Conservatives. I gave you my opinion as to why I don't think they could get enough votes again to make that happen!

Again, I think you're seeing the world as you'd like it to be rather than the way it is. If you were working for a political party you could never actually win if you didn't deal with things the way they are.

You'd just be sitting around dreaming!

I personally think we'd be best off with Pete Traynor of Traynor guitar amplifiers as our Prime Minister, but I'm not naive enough to think it's ever gonna happen.

I like a Danny Williams kind with street smarts and attitude who wonèt take no crap from the feds. I think your stuck like most of us with no real option but failure of government. I just hope the future brings us something more than clowns and a gong show

[Alta4ever]

I like a Danny Williams kind with street smarts and attitude who wonèt take no crap from the feds. I think your stuck like most of us with no real option but failure of government. I just hope the future brings us something more than clowns and a gong show

As for substance Danny Williams is no better the Duceppe, a big bag o wind, that whines about everything, and bites the had that feeds him.

[August1991]

I came across this article and I think its good reading and asked the question are the PC's actual gone from Canada's poilitical arena? .... http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/667580

The Toronto Star publishes a positive opinion/article about Joe Clark and anyone should pay attention?

Topaz, the world is not what you believe. People have many other ways of seeing things.

-----

IMV, Joe Clark was an incompetent idiot who became PM purely be chance (Trudeau/MacEachen quickly made a fool of Clark). As to "progressive" conservatives, the name is nonsensical in the modern world - the word "progressive" has lost all meaning.

Edited July 17, 2009 by August1991

[Argus]

A new conservative party would be welcome n Canada. I bet a large number of cpc members would leave to join it. Of course they would fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening. Bring back the Progrssive Conservatives, we need a revival. Take away the phoney legitimacy of these radical right wing nut jobs. Keep them marginalized, where they belong.

What you mean, in this towering intellectual argument, is that you hate conservatives, and want a new liberal party which somehow you imagine would take votes away from the Conservative Party - so long as it had the name "conservative" somewhere in it - even though there was nothing conservative about it.

You want a party that "smallc" can support - in other words, another liberal party.

[Argus]

I say let em keep raining on us for a while the tories are losing ground in the west its foothold give it 2 years and no province will vote torie ever again you think NDP are bad look at what STELMACHE did to ALBERTA. '-------harpers bum buddy

Hey, genius, the Alberta tories ARE Progressive Conservatives, which is one of the reasons Stelmach and Harper are NOT by any means buddies.

[Argus]

I like a Danny Williams kind with street smarts and attitude who wonèt take no crap from the feds.

Why am I not surprised.

Williams is a buffoon, a loud, braying ass of a man showboating before the local yokels.

[Smallc]

Reform was not far right, they were centre right.

By Canadian standards they were far right. The Conservative Party is centre right.

[Argus]

By Canadian standards they were far right. The Conservative Party is centre right.

No, the Heritage Front is far right. The Reform Party was a grassroots party without any radical aims or beliefs. An elected Senate? Reforming immigration? Stiffening up punishment for crime? Balancing the budget? These were the major core values Reform stood behind. Just what do you think was "far right" about any of them?

[Smallc]

No, the Heritage Front is far right. The Reform Party was a grassroots party without any radical aims or beliefs. An elected Senate? Reforming immigration? Stiffening up punishment for crime? Balancing the budget? These were the major core values Reform stood behind. Just what do you think was "far right" about any of them?

When you're on the right, much of what they said doesn't necessarily seem radical. It was a grass roots party...of social and fiscal conservatives (all in one). That's not the Canadian norm.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Smallc