Chretien honoured by Queen

[jdobbin]

And apparently, you can't understand how this benefits the Conservatives.

Are you going over those poll numbers at the PMO?

[Smallc]

And apparently, you can't understand how this benefits the Conservatives.

You're right, I can't....because it doesn't.

[August1991]

Are you going over those poll numbers at the PMO?

I bet Harper knows exactly how this will play.

Without knowing poll numbers, I can guess that it divides Liberal Chretien/Martin partisans and puts Ignatieff into a difficult position. Most important, it helps the Bloc (and Tories) in Quebec.

The Toronto Star and the G&M (and associated English Internet news engines) can wax the wonderful Chretien car but that's not federal politics.

Harper knows what he's doing. (IMHO, he should not involve the British Queen despite how tempting it is to exploit Liberal vanity).

[jdobbin]

I bet Harper knows exactly how this will play.

You mean widely ignored?

Without knowing poll numbers, I can guess that it divides Liberal Chretien/Martin partisans and puts Ignatieff into a difficult position. Most important, it helps the Bloc (and Tories) in Quebec.

Just like you were correct that Obama would never win?

The Toronto Star and the G&M (and associated English Internet news engines) can wax the wonderful Chretien car but that's not federal politics.

Harper knows what he's doing. (IMHO, he should not involve the British Queen despite how tempting it is to exploit Liberal vanity).

Perhaps you will tell him that in the meeting you have with him at Harrington Lake.

[ToadBrother]

I bet Harper knows exactly how this will play.

Without knowing poll numbers, I can guess that it divides Liberal Chretien/Martin partisans and puts Ignatieff into a difficult position. Most important, it helps the Bloc (and Tories) in Quebec.

The Toronto Star and the G&M (and associated English Internet news engines) can wax the wonderful Chretien car but that's not federal politics.

Harper knows what he's doing. (IMHO, he should not involve the British Queen despite how tempting it is to exploit Liberal vanity).

Have you even bothered reading anything about the Order of Merit. This honor is the Queen's alone to give, it is not done on the advice of anyone else. Besides, if it's ever happened at all, it's probably been a century or more since a sitting Canadian Prime Minister ever advised the reigning monarch on who to bestow any such honor on.

It would be an extraordinary breach of protocol for even the British Prime Minister to tell the queen to bestow the Order of Merit on someone, and it's even less likely for a Canadian Prime Minister to do so.

My goodness, but it's hard to imagine the depths of ignorance that has to go into imagining that Harper, or anyone beyond the Queen and her own personal staff having anything to do with this.

[August1991]

Just like you were correct that Obama would never win?

If the stock market collapses by 30% a month before Chretien's election, I'll revise my prediction.

-----

Dobbin, let me rephrase all of this clearly.

First, Queen Elizabeth would not give an award to a retired Canadian Liberal PM from Quebec without the approval of a sitting Canadian Conservative PM from Alberta. (It is impossible to believe she would do this without first "consulting".)

Second, it is to the benefit of the federal Conservatives (Harper) if Chretien receives an award from a British Queen. (Anyone with any understanding of Canadian federal politics can see this.)

Edited July 16, 2009 by August1991

[jdobbin]

If the stock market collapses by 30% a month before Chretien's election, I'll revise my prediction.

Well, that might have hurt Bush. You seemed to think it had nothing to do with McCain and the other Republicans.

Dobbin, let me rephrase all of this clearly.

First, Queen Elizabeth would not give an award to a retired Canadian Liberal PM from Quebec without the approval of a sitting Canadian Conservative PM from Alberta. (It is impossible to believe she would do this without first "consulting".)

Do you have anything to back that up? Because it sounds like bloviating.

It indicates that you have been told this by someone. Fess up. The Queen told you or Harper?

Second, it is to benefit of the federal Conservatives (Harper) if Chretien receives an award from a British Queen. (Anyone with any understanding of Canadian federal politics can see this.)

Anyone with an understanding of Canadain federal politics knows that most Canadians have hung the "gone fishin'" sign on.

[DrGreenthumb]

Oh yeah I'm totally sure that Harper is THRILLED to see Jean Cretien recieving such a high honour.

Too bad Cretien didn't still lead the Liberals, or we would get a real Liberal majority. Cretien is the best PM this country has had since I've been old enough to care. I wish the Liberals could find another leader with some balls, and strength of convictions, like Jean Cretien. The Cretien Liberals would NEVER have voted for c-15 that is for sure.

[Molly]

The logic of that rates right in there with Patrick Browns assertion that the arrest for gang-rape, of a couple of members of the local provincial Tory Constituency Association was Liberal takeover-style plot. Sure. They recruited a volunteer to infiltrate the executive, be elected president, and then commit a particularly egregious criminal act, so as to embarrass them for a couple of weeks... and it worked like a charm. How Machiavelian!

Now we have Harper conspiring to have the Queen bestow honours on a retired Prime Minister, so as to embarrass the Liberals. They are tricky, those Conservatives.

Will the dirty partisan tricks never cease? They become baser, and more intricate every day.

Tin foil hats all round.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Molly

[noahbody]

Cretien is the best PM this country has had since I've been old enough to care.

Care about drugs maybe. Don Chretien destroyed trust in government.

[M.Dancer]

Too bad Cretien didn't still lead the Liberals, or we would get a real Liberal majority.

If by majority you mean no seats in Quebec, Ontario or Alberta, I agree.

[ToadBrother]

If the stock market collapses by 30% a month before Chretien's election, I'll revise my prediction.

-----

Dobbin, let me rephrase all of this clearly.

First, Queen Elizabeth would not give an award to a retired Canadian Liberal PM from Quebec without the approval of a sitting Canadian Conservative PM from Alberta. (It is impossible to believe she would do this without first "consulting".)

Why should she? It confers no title of nobility upon him, any more than the Order of Canada does on its recipients.

Second, it is to the benefit of the federal Conservatives (Harper) if Chretien receives an award from a British Queen. (Anyone with any understanding of Canadian federal politics can see this.)

I see no evidence that you understand Federal politics. You certainly don't understand the system of honors in the UK.

[August1991]

Oh yeah I'm totally sure that Harper is THRILLED to see Jean Cretien recieving such a high honour.

Thrilled, I doubt. But Harper has no objection to the Queen of England giving an award to the Liberal ex-PM Jean Chretien.

Now we have Harper conspiring to have the Queen bestow honours on a retired Prime Minister, so as to embarrass the Liberals. They are tricky, those Conservatives.

Conspiring and tricky are strong words but do the political calculations.

IMV, it is to Harper's benefit that the Queen of England gives an award to Liberal Jean Chretien. I am astonished that my view is not shared here.

BTW, what has Ignatieff (no fool) had to say?

"Mr. Chrétien left an unequalled legacy of distinguished public service," Ignatieff said in a statement.

CBC

A statement, the CBC. There's your key sign, Sherlock.

---

This award poses a problem for the federal Liberal Party, particularly now. Trudeau could have accepted it but Chretien should have refused it. Chretien has Trudeau's ego without the talent.

Edited July 17, 2009 by August1991

[Dave_ON]

Thrilled, I doubt. But Harper has no objection to the Queen of England giving an award to the Liberal ex-PM Jean Chretien.

Conspiring and tricky are strong words but do the political calculations.

IMV, it is to Harper's benefit that the Queen of England gives an award to Liberal Jean Chretien. I am astonished that my view is not shared here.

BTW, what has Ignatieff (no fool) had to say? CBC

A statement, the CBC. There's your key sign, Sherlock.

---

This award poses a problem for the federal Liberal Party, particularly now. Trudeau could have accepted it but Chretien should have refused it. Chretien has Trudeau's ego without the talent.

You shouldn't be at all surprised that your views aren't shared here. You can't even see left field from where you're standing on this issue. I've generally found your posts to be well thought out, if somewhat misguided, but I think you really missed the boat on this one. Wonder why the rest of the conservative fan boys have failed to chime in on this issue? Argus is conspicuously absent as are the rest of the LPC haters. So why are you fighting the good fight all by your lonesome?

Harper using the Queen of Canada as his pawn in a political game? Come now, that's beyond ludicrous. Mostly because it gives Harper, who is far from dumb, entirely too much credit. The main issue you have failed to address and has been stated over and over again on this thread is that this is not an award that requires the advice of ministers to confer. Truly all you have provided is wild suppositions and borderline conspiracy theories, without even a shred of tenuous evidence. Avid disdain for Trudeau, Chretien, and our Monarch does not count as evidence by the way. I mean some actual links to back up your claims of this rather ingenious political maneuver on the part of the PM. You’ve also failed to demonstrate how this rather low key news story will have such a far reaching and disastrous affect on the LPC.

[Alta4ever]

You shouldn't be at all surprised that your views aren't shared here. You can't even see left field from where you're standing on this issue. I've generally found your posts to be well thought out, if somewhat misguided, but I think you really missed the boat on this one. Wonder why the rest of the conservative fan boys have failed to chime in on this issue? Argus is conspicuously absent as are the rest of the LPC haters. So why are you fighting the good fight all by your lonesome?

Harper using the Queen of Canada as his pawn in a political game? Come now, that's beyond ludicrous. Mostly because it gives Harper, who is far from dumb, entirely too much credit. The main issue you have failed to address and has been stated over and over again on this thread is that this is not an award that requires the advice of ministers to confer. Truly all you have provided is wild suppositions and borderline conspiracy theories, without even a shred of tenuous evidence. Avid disdain for Trudeau, Chretien, and our Monarch does not count as evidence by the way. I mean some actual links to back up your claims of this rather ingenious political maneuver on the part of the PM. You’ve also failed to demonstrate how this rather low key news story will have such a far reaching and disastrous affect on the LPC.

Most Liberal Party haters don't need to comment because we know that most liberals are to arrogant and ignorant to see the hypocracy of this, but for those that remeber the go round with Lord Black understand and see the hypocracy of the liberal party and thier supporters.

[lily]

Most Liberal Party haters don't need to comment because we know that most liberals are to arrogant and ignorant to see the hypocracy of this, but for those that remeber the go round with Lord Black understand and see the hypocracy of the liberal party and thier supporters.

It's already been repeatedly pointed out.....

One has little to nothing to do with the other. You'd see that, if not for blind partisanship.

[Alta4ever]

It's already been repeatedly pointed out.....

One has little to nothing to do with the other. You'd see that, if not for blind partisanship.

They are both honours bestowed apon a Canadian Citizen they are the same thing. If Harper so chose he could use the same act that Chrietien used to block the awarding of the honour, like I said before liberals are to arrogant and ignorant to bother understanding. This is why Conservatives are above you, they will not block the honour they will not be the hypocrits that the liberals are.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

You'd see that, if not for blind partisanship.

Really blind paritisanship? More like hatred of what the liberal party of Canada stands for, If I had a better option the CPC I would vote for it. Because I am a small c conservative doesn't make partisan, I have ideological differences with the liberals party in otherwords I stand for something not the nothing that the liberal party always has been and always will be.

Now as for how partisan you I can only guess, but because you support the liberal party I can surmise you are as hypocritical as they are.

[August1991]

Harper using the Queen of Canada as his pawn in a political game?

Imagine if Chretien had phoned Ignatieff and said, "The Queen is about to give me an award but I will decline it when you go public and say that Canadian political figures should not accept British awards" or some such. You can invent whatever phrase you want.

My point is that this award is political, it was given with the connivance of Stephen Harper and Michael Ignatieff would be better off if Jean Chretien had refused the award.

The only people who can see this award as good for the Liberals are people who utterly hate Harper and would never vote Conservative anyway. In particular, this award harms Liberal prospects in French Quebec. It reminds everyone of who the federal Liberals are: all hat, no cattle.

[jdobbin]

Most Liberal Party haters don't need to comment because we know that most liberals are to arrogant and ignorant to see the hypocracy of this, but for those that remeber the go round with Lord Black understand and see the hypocracy of the liberal party and thier supporters.

Most people know the difference between a peerage and an honour.

[g_bambino]

They are both honours bestowed apon a Canadian Citizen they are the same thing.

No, they're not. Read the difference between the peerage and an order . For extra marks, also brush up on noble titles and the Nickle Resolution.

[g_bambino]

Canadian political figures should not accept British awards.

August's delusion #1: The Order of Merit is British.

August's delusion #2: The Queen needs ministerial approval to induct one of her subjects into her order.

August's delusion #3: Liberal Party membership will plummet because Chretien decided to accept the invitation into the Order of Merit.

August's delusion #4: Anyone other than August shares these delusions.

[Smallc]

Imagine if Chretien had phoned Ignatieff and said, "The Queen is about to give me an award but I will decline it when you go public and say that Canadian political figures should not accept British awards"

I think I'm going insane, because what you are saying is beyond belief. Lets try it in capitals. THIS IS NOT A BRITISH AWARD. THIS IS AN AWARD FROM THE QUEEN OF CANADA.

[August1991]

I think I'm going insane, because what you are saying is beyond belief. Lets try it in capitals. THIS IS NOT A BRITISH AWARD. THIS IS AN AWARD FROM THE QUEEN OF CANADA.

This is a political award in Canada. It is delusional not to see the political implications of this award.

Most people know the difference between a peerage and an honour.

I don't but as a wild guess, both superficially probably concern letters before and after the name.

-----

There are real political implications to all this and you are wrong to ignore these political implications. That's my point. I think that Harper has made a smart political calculation.

Edited July 17, 2009 by August1991

[g_bambino]

I think I'm going insane, because what you are saying is beyond belief. Lets try it in capitals. THIS IS NOT A BRITISH AWARD. THIS IS AN AWARD FROM THE QUEEN OF CANADA.

You'll have to get used to it, Smallc. August is incabable of putting the word "Canada" directly after "Queen of"; every time he tries, the word "England" comes out instead. It's pathalogical.