10 Billion for military equipment

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yes, like the depressed economy of Manitoba....oh...wait.

Would you prefer the word stunted for your economy in the province of my birth?

Lets see effective June 2009;

Employment down, less than 1% from last year but still down, gives you fourth place in the nation

May 2009

Average home resale down 11% gives you largest fall in the nation

Home sales down 25% sixth place in the nation

Consumer price index 1.5% highest in the nation

June 2009

Housing starts down 8% third place in the nation

April 2009

Manufacturing sales down 5% second place in the nation

Retail sales down 5% sixth place in the nation

Wholesale trade down 3% third place in the nation

The only claim to fame you folks have is falling house prices and highest inflation. On the other hand you folks are not doing to bad at all. What is the story with that oil field on the border?

[Smallc]

Manitoba's numbers are down less than Alberta's. Our economy is simply flat, and is not shrinking during the recession. As for the oil field, it's doubled output under the NDP. Under the NDP we've become 11% less dependent on Equalization. Nice of you to find the bad numbers and show them though.

[Smallc]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...9/08/c4711.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/pro...d-50347407.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingn...f-49709047.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingn...y-49534402.html

And there are many more. The point is that NDP doesn't always equal bad.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...9/08/c4711.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/pro...d-50347407.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingn...f-49709047.html

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingn...y-49534402.html

And there are many more. The point is that NDP doesn't always equal bad.

In general terms they do though. The NDP agenda is not a business friendly environment from the perspective of business. I am all for strong economies, and yours has potential. I am just saying that the NDP are doing less for the economy than they could be. Look at the changes next door to you and the difference between ideologies. You simply cannot deny the reality of the improvements in the land of the stubble jumper, and that is because of the change in government.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

We are going way off the reservation from the original thread here folks!

[Smallc]

The difference next door has more to do with potash and access to oil reserves that are 20 times larger. Also, note that Saskatchewan came to prosper under the NDP. I'm not a socialist, but as I have said, most NDP provincial governments aren't driven by socialist ideology, and so I have no problem supporting them.

How did this come into a military discussion anyway?

[Machjo]

We are going way off the reservation from the original thread here folks!

Very relevant in fact. It's a fundamental ethical question of who should fund the military, and that naturally touches upon ideological, phylosophical, and religious notions of ethics.

So, should everyone be funding the military, or only those who benefit from it?

Personally, I'd go for the latter. Companies benefit from it most, so let them pay for it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The difference next door has more to do with potash and access to oil reserves that are 20 times larger. Also, note that Saskatchewan came to prosper under the NDP. I'm not a socialist, but as I have said, most NDP provincial governments aren't driven by socialist ideology, and so I have no problem supporting them.

Nonsense, the potash has been there forever, and so has the oil. The difference is in a positive business environment that came with the change of government. Granted that my own government went brain dead, and forced a venue change for petro dollar investments, but the reality is that you can count dozens of grass hoppers right up to the border and then they simply disappear for the most part. Its not like the border was the line on the oil field!

How did this come into a military discussion anyway?

It started out that way!

[lily]

Very relevant in fact. It's a fundamental ethical question of who should fund the military, and that naturally touches upon ideological, phylosophical, and religious notions of ethics.

So, should everyone be funding the military, or only those who benefit from it?

Personally, I'd go for the latter. Companies benefit from it most, so let them pay for it.

Don't we all benefit from the military in one way or another? Same with health care, education and a lot of other things our taxes pay for.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Don't we all benefit from the military in one way or another? Same with health care, education and a lot of other things our taxes pay for.

Yes we do. Our real problem is that we simply don't have any enemies, so we don't feel the need to spend money to defend ourselves. We do have some quirky allies, and there is of course terrorists but no real enemies.

[lily]

Maybe we don't have enemies because of our military. Have you thought about that?

Ok, I couldn't even type that with a straight face.

[Machjo]

Don't we all benefit from the military in one way or another? Same with health care, education and a lot of other things our taxes pay for.

So tell me, how do I benefit from the military? I'm not in the military industry. We are bordered by three coasts and an allie. As for Afghanistan, I would have preferred my taxes sending Iranian troops there at much lower cost (their language and culture is similar, making it easier to engage in hearts and minds campaigns, which would have made the war far more efficient) Now here's what I'm getting at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cilW8ZSoQc

[Smallc]

Nonsense, the potash has been there forever, and so has the oil. The difference is in a positive business environment that came with the change of government.

That's not the difference. There's no way that a change in government produced results that quickly. The price of oil went up, and more and more potash was found. Saskatchewan is a resource rich province (probably more so than any other), but until recently much of it was too expensive or too hard to access.

[lily]

So tell me, how do I benefit from the military? I'm not in the military industry. We are bordered by three coasts and an allie. As for Afghanistan, I would have preferred my taxes sending Iranian troops there at much lower cost (their language and culture is similar, making it easier to engage in hearts and minds campaigns, which would have made the war far more efficient) Now here's what I'm getting at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cilW8ZSoQc

When the forest industry was being decimated, a local group issued stamps to all the loggers in the area, saying "Forestry feeds my family". They stamped all their cheques and every bill ($5, etc) in their wallets. The idea was that even those not directly employed by the forestry indutry were still affected and still benefitted from it.

Same applies here. Yes, we have 3 coasts and an ally on the other border, but we still need the capability to defend those borders. can we? Not by ourselves, I don't think. But with help from our allies, yes, I think we can.

The military also does a lot domestically too.

[Remiel]

I would have preferred my taxes sending Iranian troops there at much lower cost (their language and culture is similar, making it easier to engage in hearts and minds campaigns, which would have made the war far more efficient) Now here's what I'm getting at:

Something tells me that this would be a bad idea for the same reason that sending Russian troops to engage in a hearts and minds campaign would be a bad idea.

[Machjo]

So tell me, how do I benefit from the military? I'm not in the military industry. We are bordered by three coasts and an allie. As for Afghanistan, I would have preferred my taxes sending Iranian troops there at much lower cost (their language and culture is similar, making it easier to engage in hearts and minds campaigns, which would have made the war far more efficient) Now here's what I'm getting at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cilW8ZSoQc

I just want to add to this. If I had a say in how my taxes were going, I would not be wasting my money on the military as it is now. I'd rather give it to some kind of international military force (maybe a UN force let's say) that could hire from anywhere, thus ensuring that the military is competent enough to fight wars abroad efficiently, with bilingual soldiers from various countries, ensuring that at least some of them would know the local language and culture.

In the video above, those are Americans. But I can't imagine the situation being any different for Canadians. Look up the topic on Google, and you'll see that the language barrier is one of the main issues in Afghanistan right now! That video is not uncommon. That's how you want to force me to spend my money? That's why I'm sick of the socialism in the military. Let me give my money to the charity of my choice. That way I could give it to a worthy charity that can earn my money. Let's get some competition going in the charity industry. If you take my taxes and give it to the military and I have no say in it (so much for democracy), then it's natural that we end up with a fumbling joke of a military like that above. For crying out loud, we could put that video on Saturday Night Live, but it really isn't that funny. It's serious and lives are at stake. But because of the whole socialist system our military functions under, there's no incentive for it to actually produce results.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

That's not the difference. There's no way that a change in government produced results that quickly. The price of oil went up, and more and more potash was found. Saskatchewan is a resource rich province (probably more so than any other), but until recently much of it was too expensive or too hard to access.

Yes it is the difference! The price of oil is going down, not up, but you need to remember that Alberta had a brain fart and wanted to mess around with royalties. That little fact played into the petro dollar investment big time. Have you looked at where the price of potash is lately, or the shares of the Potash Corp! The reality is that the province is now open for business and the dollars are beginning to flow in. It will take years of infrastructure investment to begin with, but the oil sands will come on line. In addition there is a lot of conventional oil that will now be found and drilled.

The rise of the stubble jumpers ! Its a great thing, and I hope you folks get in on this "Praire Power" trip too! Yes I know you think you are doing okay, but I think you underestimate you province.

[Machjo]

Something tells me that this would be a bad idea for the same reason that sending Russian troops to engage in a hearts and minds campaign would be a bad idea.

About half of Afghans speak Persion. Few if any speak Russian. Big difference. Plus, in a democracy, should I not have a say in where my money goes? Do you really want your money going to a military repeating the fiasco you saw in the video above, on a daily basis?

If not an Iranian military, then I'd rather give my money to a private Persian-speaking militia.

Or, if I absolutely must pay my money to the Canadian military, and you absolutely insist that it somehow 'benefits' me, then you make damn sure that the soldiers the Canadian military hires are qualified to do their job. If that video is typical (and from various articles I've read on the internet, even the Pentagon has acknowledged that language is among the most decicive factors in the war right now, and that the US military is desperately short of qualified interpretors, something they should have thought about before draggingus into it), then I want nothing to do with it.

[Machjo]

Yes we do. Our real problem is that we simply don't have any enemies, so we don't feel the need to spend money to defend ourselves. We do have some quirky allies, and there is of course terrorists but no real enemies.

So if we don't ahve enemies, then why have such a big military. Time to make some enemies for ourselves? Is that what you're suggesting?

[Machjo]

Something tells me that this would be a bad idea for the same reason that sending Russian troops to engage in a hearts and minds campaign would be a bad idea.

And how are Canadian troops supposed to do it through fumbling interpretors?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

So if we don't ahve enemies, then why have such a big military. Time to make some enemies for ourselves? Is that what you're suggesting?

We don't even have a medium sized military! Do you think you could be the General to defend this nation with what we have now?

[Craig1]

Yes it is the difference! The price of oil is going down, not up, but you need to remember that Alberta had a brain fart and wanted to mess around with royalties. That little fact played into the petro dollar investment big time. Have you looked at where the price of potash is lately, or the shares of the Potash Corp! The reality is that the province is now open for business and the dollars are beginning to flow in. It will take years of infrastructure investment to begin with, but the oil sands will come on line. In addition there is a lot of conventional oil that will now be found and drilled.

The rise of the stubble jumpers ! Its a great thing, and I hope you folks get in on this "Praire Power" trip too! Yes I know you think you are doing okay, but I think you underestimate you province.

How bout these bad boys made by StrirlingEnergy called the sun catchers.

1 of them can power 10 homes! and a field of them can power a city!

with a electric car you'll never need to be hooked to the grid again or ever see another gas station. ever.

http://www.stirlingenergy.com/

within 2 years they say 1 million homes will be powered by the Sun Catcher in the United states/ and Canada should jump on board.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... even the Pentagon has acknowledged that language is among the most decicive factors in the war right now, and that the US military is desperately short of qualified interpretors, something they should have thought about before draggingus into it), then I want nothing to do with it.

Hey...this is very funny coming from a nation that is still fighting over English vs. Francais.

[Machjo]

We don't even have a medium sized military! Do you think you could be the General to defend this nation with what we have now?

Defend against what? Groundhogs?

[Machjo]

Hey...this is very funny coming from a nation that is still fighting over English vs. Francais.

What? The Pentagon is US? Canada's equivalent is called NDHQ (National Defence Headquarters). So it was coming from the US, not Canada. So of course if US troops are fumbling their way through the Afghan linguistic mine field, I can't imagine Canadian troops are faring any better. In this respect, I applaud the US military for being ahead of ours in at least having identified the problem and acknowledged it as a major obstacle currently, something the Canadian military has not yet done to the best of my knowledge.