10 Billion for military equipment

[Guest TrueMetis]

Without the Americans, the Communists would have won easily.

They say that ww2 would have been lost without them and that's debatable.

[DogOnPorch]

They say that ww2 would have been lost without them and that's debatable.

Hardly...and we've done this exact scenario last year in another thread. Had the Americans not entered the war thanks to the Japanese, the Russians wouldn't have been able to move their armies in Siberia west to save the day in front of Moscow. That would have indeed been game over for Europe. But, the Russian super-spy, Richard Sorge, had leaned the vital information that Japan's eyes were turned elsewhere.

Then there's the bomber offensive...

[Guest TrueMetis]

Hardly...and we've done this exact scenario last year in another thread. Had the Americans not entered the war thanks to the Japanese, the Russians wouldn't have been able to move their armies in Siberia west to save the day in front of Moscow. That would have indeed been game over for Europe. But, the Russian super-spy, Richard Sorge, had leaned the vital information that Japan's eyes were turned elsewhere.

Then there's the bomber offensive...

I was talking specifically the western front but in the end who cares it was a group effort take out one group and the whole thing would probably fail.

Edited July 26, 2009 by TrueMetis

[DogOnPorch]

I was talking specifically the western front but in the end who cares it was a group effort take out one group and the whole thing would probably fail.

Well, Lend-Lease supplied much of Russia's fuel and rubber needs...not to mention the ubiquitous Ford and Studebaker trucks which hauled Russia's much applauded artillery. When it turned out The Shah's dad was courting the Nazis, the Allies (UK & USSR) used this as an opportunity to seize Iran/Persia before it became an Axis power along with its oil (Fall, 1941). Once secured, the Lend-Lease routes through Iran/Persia kept Russia's war machine running smoothly. To this day, Iran enjoys the use of these highways and airfields.

As for the Western Front, the US 8th Airforce fought a bloody battle from 1942 to 1945 over the Reich against the Luftwaffe in broad daylight. Very, very dangerous, indeed. Of course, once on the Continent, the US ground forces fought just as hard as they were fighting out in the Pacific...and just as hard as anyone else anywhere else, for that matter.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Well, Lend-Lease supplied much of Russia's fuel and rubber needs...not to mention the ubiquitous Ford and Studebaker trucks which hauled Russia's much applauded artillery. When it turned out The Shah's dad was courting the Nazis, the Allies (UK & USSR) used this as an opportunity to seize Iran/Persia before it became an Axis power along with its oil (Fall, 1941). Once secured, the Lend-Lease routes through Iran/Persia kept Russia's war machine running smoothly. To this day, Iran enjoys the use of these highways and airfields.

As for the Western Front, the US 8th Airforce fought a bloody battle from 1942 to 1945 over the Reich against the Luftwaffe in broad daylight. Very, very dangerous, indeed. Of course, once on the Continent, the US ground forces fought just as hard as they were fighting out in the Pacific...and just as hard as anyone else anywhere else, for that matter.

They got paid for land-lease so its not like it was some big oh look what we did thing. Canada sent supplies to but we diddn't make them pay but no one ever mentions that.

And if they fought as hard as everyone else why did German forces prefer to attack American and British Force and avoid attacking Canadian forces? Why did Canada become the most feared force on the western front in both wars?

Edited July 26, 2009 by TrueMetis

[DogOnPorch]

They got paid for land-lease so its not like it was some big oh look what we did thing. Canada sent supplies to but we diddn't make them pay but no one ever mentions that.

And if they fought as hard as everyone else why did German forces prefer to attack American and British Force and avoid attacking Canadian forces? Why did Canada become the most feared force on the western front in both wars?

At 10 cents on the dollar, Lend-Lease worked out well for all parties getting it. You didn't have to give it back, to boot. As for Canada and Lend Lease: due to the act potentially taking away Canadian jobs, the US supplied the materiels for much of Canada's Lend-Lease efforts (actually part of Britain's Lend-Lease) allowing Canadian industry to keep producing. So...no...we didn't and couldn't charge for it...but our factories remained open.

Canadians were by and large volunteers with the exception of certain troops. This made them comaprable to the SS, the USMC and other elite organizations (in terms of motivation) that every country tended to have. Armies composed almost entirely of drafties suffered accordingly...see Italy.

Edited July 27, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Jerry J. Fortin]

At 10 cents on the dollar, Lend-Lease worked out well for all parties getting it. You didn't have to give it back, to boot. As for Canada and Lend Lease: due to the act potentially taking away Canadian jobs, the US supplied the materiels for for much of Canada's Lend-Lease efforts (actually part of Britain's Lend-Lease) allowing Canadian industry to keep producing. So...no...we didn't and couldn't charge for it...but our factories remained open.

Canadians were by and large volunteers with the exception of certain troops. This made them comaprable to the SS, the USMC and other elite organizations (in terms of motivation) that every country tended to have. Armies composed almost entirely of drafties suffered accordingly...see Italy.

Neither the first nor the second world war would have been won by our side without the Americans. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Just go back and look at production of war materials, the Axis powers were way out classed with our production and delivery numbers. War is about attrition to a large degree, we made and delivered more ordinance, we won the war.

To return to the point though, there is a lot to be said for modern weapons and automated systems. For instance UAV's, these things can now be armed. Then there are cruise missiles, we are at generation three of those things I believe. Next is unmanned tanks and artillery. Who knows perhaps unmanned subs for under ice work is the way to go. If you remove the human element the weapons are much less expensive. Maybe that is what we should be looking at in Canada, advance weapons systems of the unmanned variety.

[DogOnPorch]

Neither the first nor the second world war would have been won by our side without the Americans. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Just go back and look at production of war materials, the Axis powers were way out classed with our production and delivery numbers. War is about attrition to a large degree, we made and delivered more ordinance, we won the war.

It was actually TrueMetis who made the suggestion re: the Americans.

To return to the point though, there is a lot to be said for modern weapons and automated systems. For instance UAV's, these things can now be armed. Then there are cruise missiles, we are at generation three of those things I believe. Next is unmanned tanks and artillery. Who knows perhaps unmanned subs for under ice work is the way to go. If you remove the human element the weapons are much less expensive. Maybe that is what we should be looking at in Canada, advance weapons systems of the unmanned variety.

I agree unmanned craft have a future with Canada. However, I don't think we should ever completely remove the human element. Dangerous, for one. Could lead to the callous use of weapons in situations where, if humans were involved, we wouldn't use them or would use them differently.