Grits, Tories battle for Jewish support in next election

[eyeball]

No. The history of countries themselves, certainly including our own, is so often that of aggression and violence that it's thoroughly institutionalized, built right in, as it were. No one has any right to demand the end of the State of Israel. That's ludicrous.

The assumed right to create countries seems just as ludicrous given the chaos that's so often the result.

[bloodyminded]

The assumed right to create countries seems just as ludicrous given the chaos that's so often the result.

I agree, but it's not 1947. It's too late, so I see no point in thinking about it.

Canada and the United States and Australia--hell, probably most countries--were founded for reasons and (moreso) in a manner that many would, now at any rate, consider illegitimate.

But I'm not going anywhere!

I do think it's past time to stop the practice, however. Indonesia came within a hair's breadth of taking East Timor, illegitimately and illegally. With the help of the great powers, in fact, who are open supporters of international aggression and state terrorism. (By definition of that very situation, I mean...hardly an arguable or controversial assertion, though it throws Western triumphalists into tantrum mode.) Fortunately, it didn't pan out, and that's entirely, 100% because of growing public outrage, fuelled by activists.

Edited July 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Bonam]

I do think it's past time to stop the practice, however. Indonesia came within a hair's breadth of taking East Timor, illegitimately and illegally. With the help of the great powers, in fact, who are open supporters of international aggression and state terrorism. (By definition of that very situation, I mean...hardly an arguable or controversial assertion, though it throws Western triumphalists into tantrum mode.) Fortunately, it didn't pan out, and that's entirely, 100% because of growing public outrage, fuelled by activists.

Are or were? You have a valid grievance, but it is best not to conflate the present and the past tense.

[bloodyminded]

Are or were? You have a valid grievance, but it is best not to conflate the present and the past tense.

"Were" as of 1999....not exactly the dim and dusty recesses of ancient history.

And since no one has ever openly admitted to the supposed breach of "normal" Western behaviour, I see no reason to suppose any profound lessons were learned.

[Evening Star]

I do think it's past time to stop the practice, however. Indonesia came within a hair's breadth of taking East Timor, illegitimately and illegally. With the help of the great powers, in fact, who are open supporters of international aggression and state terrorism. (By definition of that very situation, I mean...hardly an arguable or controversial assertion, though it throws Western triumphalists into tantrum mode.) Fortunately, it didn't pan out, and that's entirely, 100% because of growing public outrage, fuelled by activists.

Indonesia did take and rule East Timor from 1975 to 1999, right?

[bloodyminded]

Indonesia did take and rule East Timor from 1975 to 1999, right?

De facto, at any rate, yes. But the "governance" and "laws" they used for their rule was of state terror, both through official army and paid militias, with ongoing training and arms support by the Freedom-loving Democracies.

Their ownership never become Official. Hence the mass murders.

[Dissenter]

What a bunch of crap. This is 2011 not 1965. No group in Canada dominates the other.

Asian countries for Asians.

Black countries for blacks.

Israel for Jews or you're an anti-Semite!

White countries for everyone or you're a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews!

Nobody is flooding Asian countries with immigration and saying: Gee, it's 2011... no group should dominate the other.

Nobody is flooding predominantly black countries with immigration and saying: Gee, it's 2011... no group should dominate the other.

This forced diversity is ONLY for predominantly white countries with the end result being admittedly white minorities. It's genocide.

Frankly this thread is dated...and a way of thinking that boarders on quiet and personal anti-semitism...it's bullshit!

In YOUR OPINION it is anti-Semitism. That's just a smear word that's used against anyone that says something critical about Jews - as if they can do no wrong. Arabs are Semites, which means that people who complain about the way the Palestinians are treated are actually PRO-Semite NOT anti-Semite. Not that accuracy matters because, as I've already said, it's just a smear word.

[jbg]

Asian countries for Asians.

Black countries for blacks.

Israel for Jews or you're an anti-Semite!

White countries for everyone or you're a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews!

For one, I do agree that immigrants should have to assimilate. However, I don't care about their color. Another thing, I do not think your Jew hatred adds anything constructive. Jews are generally a constructive addition to most countries.

[Dissenter]

For one, I do agree that immigrants should have to assimilate. However, I don't care about their color. Another thing, I do not think your Jew hatred adds anything constructive. Jews are generally a constructive addition to most countries.

You don't get it.

Nobody is saying that it's just skin colour so we're going to turn black people into minorities in predominantly black countries.

Nobody is saying that it's just skin colour so we're going to turn Asian people into minorities in Asian countries.

Try this for constructive:

"In 1912, a fledgling organization, the American Jewish Committee, wrote the president of the United States challenging the country's restrictive immigration system. From the 1880s to the early 1920s, Jews were in the forefront in opposing efforts to curtail immigration and institute a national origin quota system. Jewish opposition continued until immigration quotas were eliminated in 1965."

http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?sid=1&id=253954

1965 Bill:

"Our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the purposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same. Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset. Contrary to the charges in some quarters, S500 will not inundate America with immigrants from any other country or area, or the most populated and economically deprived nations of Asia and Africa. Only haters would make such assertions." -- Senator Edward Kennedy

"Today, largely because of immigration, there is no majority race in Hawaii or Houston or New York City. Within five years, there will be no majority race in our largest state, California. In a little more than 50 years, there will be no majority race in the United States. No other nation in history has gone through demographic change of this magnitude in so short a time ..." -- President Bill Clinton (1998) http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/01/the-end-of-white-america/7208/

But legal immigration isn't enough:

"The organization [American Jewish Committee] supports a pathway for citizenship for many of the estimated 11 to 12 million individuals who are in this country [The United States] illegally and would like to see a moratorium on deportations, which is not included in Obama's bill."

http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?sid=1&id=253954

"Nearly 90 Jewish Organizations and Individuals Condemn Arizona Immigration Law: Sign-on letter forwarded to congressional leaders today"

http://www.hias.org/en/post/press-releases/90-jewish-organizations-individuals-condemn-a

Meanwhile:

"...victims of torture, rape, war and genocide are to be imprisoned indefinitely, without the supervision of a judicial authority and against the international treaty on the protection of refugees...."

"But interior minister Eli Yishai warned that if action was not taken, THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF IMMIGRANTS WOULD EVENTUALLY REACH A MILLION AND THREATEN ISRAEL'S JEWISH MAJORITY."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1129/1224284370678.html

In Canada:

Think Trudeau came up with multiculturalism? Think again:

"It [Canadian Jewish Congress] originated the concept of multiculturalism...."

Source: Vancouver Sun: Canadian Jewish Congress fights for its survival

In Europe:

"Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural... which is a transformation that MUST take place. Jews will be resented because of our leading role." -- Barbara Lerner Spectre (Israeli activist)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DBmP86vAM

So you see, it's one standard that leads to a white Christian minority in predominantly white Christian countries, and another to preserve a Jewish majority in Israel. If you want to call that constructive....

Try this:

"The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator."

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782

It's double-standards that I hate, and there's nothing constructive about a double-standard.

Here's another double-standard: America invades Iraq supposedly over WMD, which didn't exist, yet supports Israel as it sits on nuclear weapons.

Israel can violate international law, but should there be any UN resolution that's critical of Israel, America will veto it even if ALL other Security Council members support it.

Is this a constructive influence on American politics?

[Bonam]

"Were" as of 1999....not exactly the dim and dusty recesses of ancient history.

12 years ago. Different governments and different administrations. Regardless of what happened last millennium, you cannot say that Western governments "are open supporters of state terrorism" without finding a presently occurring example of such support.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Bonam

[Oleg Bach]

I don't believe the head line of this thread..."battle for Jewish support" - what a crock of stero-typical nonsense. No one is fighting over who the Jewish community is going to favour - It might have been so at one time - but not now...This is Canada and it is the year 2011...not 1980. Things have changed and what would be the point of such a contest between two parties anyway - It's like saying that the Jews run the world - they do not.

[Oleg Bach]

I don't believe the head line of this thread..."battle for Jewish support" - what a crock of stero-typical nonsense. No one is fighting over who the Jewish community is going to favour - It might have been so at one time - but not now...This is Canada and it is the year 2011...not 1980. Things have changed and what would be the point of such a contest between two parties anyway - It's like saying that the Jews run the world - they do not.

[Guest Peeves]

You don't get it.

Nobody is saying that it's just skin colour so we're going to turn black people into minorities in predominantly black countries.

Nobody is saying that it's just skin colour so we're going to turn Asian people into minorities in Asian countries.

Try this for constructive:

"In 1912, a fledgling organization, the American Jewish Committee, wrote the president of the United States challenging the country's restrictive immigration system. From the 1880s to the early 1920s, Jews were in the forefront in opposing efforts to curtail immigration and institute a national origin quota system. Jewish opposition continued until immigration quotas were eliminated in 1965."

http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?sid=1&id=253954

1965 Bill:

"Our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the purposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same. Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset. Contrary to the charges in some quarters, S500 will not inundate America with immigrants from any other country or area, or the most populated and economically deprived nations of Asia and Africa. Only haters would make such assertions." -- Senator Edward Kennedy

"Today, largely because of immigration, there is no majority race in Hawaii or Houston or New York City. Within five years, there will be no majority race in our largest state, California. In a little more than 50 years, there will be no majority race in the United States. No other nation in history has gone through demographic change of this magnitude in so short a time ..." -- President Bill Clinton (1998) http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/01/the-end-of-white-america/7208/

But legal immigration isn't enough:

"The organization [American Jewish Committee] supports a pathway for citizenship for many of the estimated 11 to 12 million individuals who are in this country [The United States] illegally and would like to see a moratorium on deportations, which is not included in Obama's bill."

http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?sid=1&id=253954

"Nearly 90 Jewish Organizations and Individuals Condemn Arizona Immigration Law: Sign-on letter forwarded to congressional leaders today"

http://www.hias.org/en/post/press-releases/90-jewish-organizations-individuals-condemn-a

Meanwhile:

"...victims of torture, rape, war and genocide are to be imprisoned indefinitely, without the supervision of a judicial authority and against the international treaty on the protection of refugees...."

"But interior minister Eli Yishai warned that if action was not taken, THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF IMMIGRANTS WOULD EVENTUALLY REACH A MILLION AND THREATEN ISRAEL'S JEWISH MAJORITY."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1129/1224284370678.html

In Canada:

Think Trudeau came up with multiculturalism? Think again:

"It [Canadian Jewish Congress] originated the concept of multiculturalism...."

Source: Vancouver Sun: Canadian Jewish Congress fights for its survival

In Europe:

"Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural... which is a transformation that MUST take place. Jews will be resented because of our leading role." -- Barbara Lerner Spectre (Israeli activist)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DBmP86vAM

So you see, it's one standard that leads to a white Christian minority in predominantly white Christian countries, and another to preserve a Jewish majority in Israel. If you want to call that constructive....

Try this:

"The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator."

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782

It's double-standards that I hate, and there's nothing constructive about a double-standard.

Here's another double-standard: America invades Iraq supposedly over WMD, which didn't exist, yet supports Israel as it sits on nuclear weapons.

Israel can violate international law, but should there be any UN resolution that's critical of Israel, America will veto it even if ALL other Security Council members support it.

Is this a constructive influence on American politics?

Typical anti-Semitic rhetoric. Now quote Zundelsite why don't you?

[bloodyminded]

12 years ago. Different governments and different administrations. Regardless of what happened last millennium, you cannot say that Western governments "are open supporters of state terrorism" without finding a presently occurring example of such support.

12 years ago at the end, meaning that it had support from successive administrations of different parties...(for example, four Canadian and five US administrations) and, of course, many of the people involved retain political power to this day. You don't think the Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans have active members and leaders who shared responsibility for what happened? Twelve little years ago?

What's the Statute of Limitations on support for terrorism and mass murder, anyway?

Your use of "last millenium" is technically accurate but disingenuous.

At any rate, no one has yet admitted to what happened....and when they do, they mischaracterize it in the wildest ways (mostly by asserting that "the West looked away" from the atrocities, which is the literal opposite of the truth).

Now, when the governments of the US, Australia, Canada and the UK tell us "we were actively involved in state terrorism and mass murder, and we renounce our own behaviour" then you would be correct.

Instead, they only lie about it. But let's move on, shall we?

Edited July 19, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Dissenter]

Typical anti-Semitic rhetoric. Now quote Zundelsite why don't you?

So you're saying that it's anti-semitic to use mainstream sources and quotes from Jews?

In YOUR OPINION it's anti-semitic rhetoric. That's just a smear word that's used against anyone that says something critical about Jews.

[Remiel]

In YOUR OPINION it's anti-semitic rhetoric. That's just a smear word that's used against anyone that says something critical about Jews.

Yes, it is such a terrible smear of the good names of Herman Goring, Joseph Goebbels, Josef Mengele, Heinrich Himmler, and, of course, Adolf Hitler.

[CANADIEN]

Yes, it is such a terrible smear of the good names of Herman Goring, Joseph Goebbels, Josef Mengele, Heinrich Himmler, and, of course, Adolf Hitler.

Not to forget Lictor... err I mean, Dissenter.

[Moonlight Graham]

Jews only make up 1% of the Canadian population. Support would be for their campaign money and powerful lobbying, not so much ballot numbers.

[Dissenter]

Yes, it is such a terrible smear of the good names of Herman Goring, Joseph Goebbels, Josef Mengele, Heinrich Himmler, and, of course, Adolf Hitler.

And the likes of Winston Churchill:

Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing.

With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspira­tion and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek—all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extra­ordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these coun­tries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

Of all the tyrannies in history, the Bolshevist tyranny is the worst, the most destructive, and the most degrading. It is sheer humbug to pretend that it is not far worse than German militarism. [its atrocities are] incomparably more hideous, on a larger scale, and more numerous than any for which the Kaiser is responsible.

Source: The Churchill Centre And Museum At The Churchill War Rooms, London

[Remiel]

And the likes of Winston Churchill:

If you are under some impression that I am bound to hero worship of Winston Churchill and have been stunned, you are laughably mistaken.

[Dissenter]

If you are under some impression that I am bound to hero worship of Winston Churchill and have been stunned, you are laughably mistaken.

I could care less about who you worship.

Do you know any real history or just the knee-jerk Nazi routine?

[Remiel]

I could care less about who you worship.

Do you know any real history or just the knee-jerk Nazi routine?

Yes, I know plenty about the history of White People Who Hate Other White People. And since everyone has seemingly forgotten about that, I am confident that we shall also forget about the history of White People Who Hate Not-White People one day.

You, however, seem to have learned nothing from the cessation of hatred between White Folks.

[Dissenter]

Yes, I know plenty about the history of White People Who Hate Other White People. And since everyone has seemingly forgotten about that, I am confident that we shall also forget about the history of White People Who Hate Not-White People one day.

You, however, seem to have learned nothing from the cessation of hatred between White Folks.

Black people have slaughtered each other by the millions in Africa, but nobody is saying that because of that, there should be a blended humanity ONLY in Africa that will turn black people into a minority.

In reality, diversity is ONLY demanded of predominantly white countries and anti-whites call it hate when white people object to the majority being turned into a minority ONLY in predominantly white countries.

Anti-whites are proud of being anti-white. It makes them feel morally righteous!

[Remiel]

Black people have slaughtered each other by the millions in Africa, but nobody is saying that because of that, there should be a blended humanity ONLY in Africa that will turn black people into a minority.

In reality, diversity is ONLY demanded of predominantly white countries and anti-whites call it hate when white people object to the majority being turned into a minority ONLY in predominantly white countries.

Anti-whites are proud of being anti-white. It makes them feel morally righteous!

Who besides you has said that it is wrong for Africa to accept immigrants from non-African countries? You are, in fact, the only one here advocating this idiotic position.

Do you really want to be in the same camp as a guy who murdered over eighty kids, mostly "white" kids, a mere couple of days ago.

[Dissenter]

Who besides you has said that it is wrong for Africa to accept immigrants from non-African countries? You are, in fact, the only one here advocating this idiotic position.

That would be why there are virtually no white people left in Zimbabwe and more than a million have left South Africa due to safety concerns?

Do you really want to be in the same camp as a guy who murdered over eighty kids, mostly "white" kids, a mere couple of days ago.

Getting desperate?

If someone that's against abortion commits murder, does that mean that everyone should be FOR abortion?

Another failed smear tactic, and using a recent tragedy in that way only reflects poorly on you.