The American Moment

[JerrySeinfeld]

In the long trrail of history, America has only lived as the free world's policeman and protector for about 50 years.

That's a pretty short moment, yet many (most?) walk the streets, make poltical commentary (usually anti USA), spend government dollars, create new social programs as if

1. They will never have to protect themselves against agressors because America will spend that money for them and protect them

and

2. The "American Moment" will last forever.

50 years. That's it. In the long history of largely dicatorial, monarchical, authoritarian rule, 50 years is what the Americans have been able to give us.

And most are unthankful. The eurotypes create social programs and criticize the very protection under which they live which makes those social programs possible as if they can't wait to see the USA wither away and die forever.

But what of what the world will look like if that actually happens?

Are we certain that in it's absence - in the era of Obama's new "intentionaly impotence" that something better comes along?

Euro US hatred and pacifism is based on the very uncertain premise that everyone in the world wants to live in harmony.

But what's really creeping up? China isn't exactly friendly. Russia? Yikes. Not to mention the various mini thug states bent on nuclear power.

In the past 50 years, it's become not only acceptable, but fashionable to hate the USA and the umbrella of protection it provides.

But isn't that kind of like cops? Everyone can't stand 'em, until you need 'em.

The American Moment. 50 years. Is this the beginning of the end?

And are we better off?

Ever played RISK? Yikes.

[bush_cheney2004]

...The American Moment. 50 years. Is this the beginning of the end?

And are we better off?

Ever played RISK? Yikes.

Yes, it is probably the end of American "exceptionalism", but that may not be a bad thing. The critical mass of western liberalism that America violently protected is spreading like weeds, and can now be tended by others after 50 years of recovery and investment. The game of Risk uses dice for uncertain outcomes, but the Americans played for keeps.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yes, it is probably the end of American "exceptionalism", but that may not be a bad thing. The critical mass of western liberalism that America violently protected is spreading like weeds, and can now be tended by others after 50 years of recovery and investment. The game of Risk uses dice for uncertain outcomes, but the Americans played for keeps.

Yes, but the Board game Risk provides a model for what the world looks like when nations cannot rely on one solid policeman for protection. It's a good metaphor for the coming world, because certainly any nation in the SHORT RUN can last without armies. But ultimately things change and it gets ugly.

Wealthy nations without armies are the hallmark of the American moment.

Did anyonee here know Kim Jong Il has toyed with the idea of firing a nuke at Vancouver?

Why?

Because he can show the american's he's serious without proking a direct retaliation. Nice world, Obama.

And the Irony is, most of the free world wholeheartedly supported Obama on his premise of America withdrawing from the role of world policeman.

Hopeychangemas!

Edited June 28, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld

[Sir Bandelot]

No need to get misty-eyed. Replace "World Policeman and Protector" with "dominant empire". Yes, 50 years, as the sepulcher of power was transferred (not so willingly) by the British after WWII, a war which one could say, they also lost.

The only way I can relate to what your saying is, we risk losing one authoritarian regime, to be replaced by another possibly much harsher regime. Better the devil you know than the one you don't know. Because,every empire has to be brutal at times, when there is uprisings that challenge its authority. So despite the US being the protector they also committed some atrocities in various places in the world. And people resent that, naturally. What they maybe don't know, is how much worse it could be if the other guys got in there first. Thats why the Germans wanted the US to get to Berlin before the Russians.

[eyeball]

In the long trrail of history, America has only lived as the free world's policeman and protector for about 50 years.

That's a pretty short moment, yet many (most?) walk the streets, make poltical commentary (usually anti USA), spend government dollars, create new social programs as if

1. They will never have to protect themselves against agressors because America will spend that money for them and protect them

Canada had one of the world's largest armies at the end WW2, we also apparently had a fledgling aerospace industry waiting to take flight but then America effectively told us to stand down and step aside. Fine, have it your way, in the meantime what were we supposed to do with our peace dividend? If we'd said no we probably would have been viewed as a threat and carpet bombed. That said its a wonder our use of the word social to describe our programs didn't get us invaded.

For all we know if the US and Canada had minded their own business and kept their noses out of WW1, WW2 might never have happened. The last 50 years have just as largely been a result of the reverberations and hangovers from WW2. By the same token how much more crap has the US has brought down on its own head the last 50 years?

I suspect if the US wasn't around to put out the fires the flare up from time to time in the world's hotspots that the nations around these spots would have had to fend for themselves, act together to contain them, or be consumed, and so be it if that should happen from time to time. Nothing lasts forever. Does anybody seriously believe the United States will? They're dreaming if they do.

Edited June 28, 2009 by eyeball

[JerrySeinfeld]

Which countries again has the US invaded and taken control of for their own?

[bush_cheney2004]

....I suspect if the US wasn't around to put out the fires the flare up from time to time in the world's hotspots that the nations around these spots would have had to fend for themselves, act together to contain them, or be consumed, and so be it if that should happen from time to time. Nothing lasts forever. Does anybody seriously believe the United States will? They're dreaming if they do.

America doesn't have to last forever....but many of America's underpinnings will. It is so pervasive that not only do you rely on it to define Canada, but also use the very spawn of America's war machine to communicate contempt for it (e.g. Internet).

That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind.

- Neil Armstrong

[JerrySeinfeld]

I'm still waiting to hear which countries the USA has invaded and taken over.

[Bonam]

America still has the potential to remain the world's dominant power for a long time. It has a lot of things going for it: largest economy, largest R&D and advanced industrial base to continue to be a leader in all types of science and technology, one of the largest land areas and populations (3rd for both) of any country, and a location in the world that affords it great stability compared to other potential superpowers.

If the USA can turn around some of its problematic trends it can remain in the lead.

And it doesn't have to last forever, it only needs to last until the singularity, which will likely be a result of (at least partially) American innovation as well.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm still waiting to hear which countries the USA has invaded and taken over.

...part of Mexico.

[Oleg Bach]

...part of Mexico.

Canada? They have won the hearts and minds or Canadians. It's possible that the winning of that mind might not be positive - and we are overly enthrawled with their entertainment .....guns - blow em up and sex...American movies? Why is that when you sit down to watch American pop art - and you have a minimum degree of choice from the pallet...murder - conspiracey - more murder - conviction of murders...the escape of killers - and of course you have let's make a deal...and at the back of the pallet you can watch a few X cons sitting at a poker table in Vegas..with cowboy hats and shades...yes it's a wonderful culture.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada? They have won the hearts and minds or Canadians. It's possible that the winning of that mind might not be positive - and we are overly enthrawled with their entertainment .....guns - blow em up and sex...American movies? Why is that when you sit down to watch American pop art - and you have a minimum degree of choice from the pallet...murder - conspiracey - more murder - conviction of murders...the escape of killers - and of course you have let's make a deal...and at the back of the pallet you can watch a few X cons sitting at a poker table in Vegas..with cowboy hats and shades...yes it's a wonderful culture.

Murder use to be more compelling plot element, because back when Hitchcock made movies, they would sit you down in Old Sparky if convicted. Not anymore....you can murder an entire family and not face the chair or anything else in many states, Canada, or Mexico.

Monty Hall (a Canadian) gave us many years of fine American pop culture. Some people always go for what's behind the curtain instead of being content with what they have.

[Oleg Bach]

Murder use to be more compelling plot element, because back when Hitchcock made movies, they would sit you down in Old Sparky if convicted. Not anymore....you can murder an entire family and not face the chair or anything else in many states, Canada, or Mexico.

Monty Hall (a Canadian) gave us many years of fine American pop culture. Some people always go for what's behind the curtain instead of being content with what they have.

Half of your best entertainers are all "ice heads" Canadians - that's because CBC had a no star policy..and compared to working on American productios - they cut a deal with ACTRA - To not pay the going rate - we are control freaks in Canada - those who wanted to make something of themselves fled the nation - to migrate south - where if you had something on the go-- you would be rewarded - up here - they liked it nice and controlable and medocre.. But Murder is becoming a big thing up here lately - maybe what we could not show in a movie - is done for real.....YOU did export the idea of murder as entertainment - but our dumb ones took it seriously - they could not tell the difference between fantacy and reality. And your culture taught young Canadian blacks about respect.....They believe it comes from the barrel of a gun....wasn't it Mao who said something like that?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... And your culture taught young Canadian blacks about respect.....They believe it comes from the barrel of a gun....wasn't it Mao who said something like that?

Yes....Canada is fine for African immigrants, but it hasn't a clue about real "Blacks" so quick on the trigger if "dissed".

[Oleg Bach]

Yes....Canada is fine for African immigrants, but it hasn't a clue about real "Blacks" so quick on the trigger if "dissed".

Africans are civilized - a small community of poor home grown "blacks' are not..You don't see them in my hood - we have the cool ones - but - when a bad ass is around - you do not make eye contact - mere eye contact is considered a challege...I thought it was just wild animals you were not supposed to connect with...our media has made it worse..........the culture is in part _ Jamacian import - or hip hop American posioning of the young black mind - and I wonder what group puts up the money to fund gangsta videos? Who put up the original cash that began this debasement - do you know ?

[bush_cheney2004]

.....or hip hop American posioning of the young black mind - and I wonder what group puts up the money to fund gangsta videos? Who put up the original cash that began this debasement - do you know ?

Viacom....remember...MTV wouldn't touch real Hip-Hop or Rap until it went mainstream...now they can't get enough. Canada never went through a "civil rights movement", so it acts like it is doing someone black a favor.

[Oleg Bach]

Viacom....remember...MTV wouldn't touch real Hip-Hop or Rap until it went mainstream...now they can't get enough. Canada never went through a "civil rights movement", so it acts like it is doing someone black a favor.

Exactly - about a month ago there was a CD release party across the street - I talked to some of the kids - they informed me that CBC had opened up a type of rap school - government funded - to do the blacks a favour...odd - a real favour would have been to put them in a great venue and promote it with some real money...but it would not matter the CBC school of hip hop turned out the usual - low quality crap - black or white - it does not matter...over and out BC - it's almost 3 on my side of the mud ball....over and out - am surprised you are so knowledgeable - but your dad was an entertainer - what about you - ? Tell me later..thanks.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... it's almost 3 on my side of the mud ball....over and out - am surprised you are so knowledgeable - but your dad was an entertainer - what about you - ? Tell me later..thanks.

Get some sleep...lot's of time to grab ass tomorrow!

[August1991]

And within about two or three posts of your OP, Jerry, they're yapping about those awful Americans and the evil "American Empire".

No need to get misty-eyed. Replace "World Policeman and Protector" with "dominant empire".

Canada had one of the world's largest armies at the end WW2, we also apparently had a fledgling aerospace industry waiting to take flight but then America effectively told us to stand down and step aside.

----

I'm with BC above. There is more freedom and democracy in the world now than there was in 1946. US presidents from Kennedy to Reagan stood up to the thugs in places such as Greece, Vietnam, Korea and Bolivia.

IMV, the US is not the world's policeman. The US military protects primarily American citizens. That's good enough for me.

As to the game of Risk, it is many years since I played it but if I remember, the game is inherently unstable and one player inevitably comes to dominate the world. Life and world history are not like that and certainly not with a powerful US military.

The notion of freedom and democracy is free trade, individual rights and limited government. Private interests are now important. Obama only speaks for one part of the US federal government. Governments in the US are much more than the president and the US itself is much more than the government. In the US, no one player dominates because power is diffused - it was designed that way.

America is not Czarist Russia.

Edited June 28, 2009 by August1991

[Oleg Bach]

The Kennedy clan standing up to every last international thug? What a joke - they are and were international thugs.

[eyeball]

I'm with BC above. There is more freedom and democracy in the world now than there was in 1946. US presidents from Kennedy to Reagan stood up to the thugs in places such as Greece, Vietnam, Korea and Bolivia.

Unfortunately they also aided and abbeted thugs in places like Iran, Iraq, Argentina the list goes on and on and on. There is likely more democracy in the world simply because there are more people fed up with the alternative.

IMV, the US is not the world's policeman. The US military protects primarily American citizens. That's good enough for me.

You've settled for too little. I think the US military has primarily acted to project corporate power throughout the world.

As to the game of Risk, it is many years since I played it but if I remember, the game is inherently unstable and one player inevitably comes to dominate the world. Life and world history are not like that and certainly not with a powerful US military.

Its not hard to imagine how a merging of corporate power with the technological singularity bonam mentioned might lead to a single entity. Something like the Borg or the Matrix perhaps. Truth is often even stranger than fiction.

[Oleg Bach]

Aiding and abbetting evil is called buisness...someone has to do it - What - you expect America to stand by and do nothing - why that would be bad for buisness - look at the banana republics...a company wants free bananas..they appeal to congress to invade the palace - if that does not work they appeal to the Columbian drug lords to sell them some bulk cocaine - sell it in east LA - take the money hire a small army and then take the bananas...and call it a revolution..monkey buisness - you gotta love it.

[eyeball]

Aiding and abbetting evil is called buisness...someone has to do it - What - you expect America to stand by and do nothing - why that would be bad for buisness - look at the banana republics...a company wants free bananas..they appeal to congress to invade the palace - if that does not work they appeal to the Columbian drug lords to sell them some bulk cocaine - sell it in east LA - take the money hire a small army and then take the bananas...and call it a revolution..monkey buisness - you gotta love it.

Actually I expect someone will finally get pissed off enough to smuggle in a nuke or even several of them and try to knock America over. The collapse of the Roman Empire comes to mind. Like I said, nothing lasts forever.

[Oleg Bach]

Actually I expect someone will finally get pissed off enough to smuggle in a nuke or even several of them and try to knock America over. The collapse of the Roman Empire comes to mind. Like I said, nothing lasts forever.

You can think that but you are not supposed to say it - welcome to the no fly list.

[August1991]

Unfortunately they also aided and abbeted thugs in places like Iran, Iraq, Argentina the list goes on and on and on. There is likely more democracy in the world simply because there are more people fed up with the alternative.

Are you (and that web site) blaming the US government for all those authoritarian thugs who took power?

If the US government was so evil, why is Canada a civilized country with a democratic government? Why has Canada had an endless internal debate about secession that the US government has not exploited for its own "evil" purposes? If the US government wanted to install authoritarian thugs abroad or exploit domestic divisions for its own gain, would it not have played games in Canada, an immediate neighbour?

Instead, however one views the highly emotional debate on Quebec secession, the absence of US intervention is remarkable.

----

Eyeball, as the Obama Administration has tried to say about Iran, this is not about America, it's about Iran. If countries such as Iran, Iraq, Argentina and so on have suffered authoritarian thug regimes, maybe it's because the local society has allowed the thugs to take power. It happens. The US is not the world's policeman. Some societies fall into chaos and a strongman takes power. Strongmen take power for many reasons. Should the US military intervene? In general, I think not.

Take Argentina as a case in point. As rich as Canada in 1900, blessed with similar natural and human resources, IMV, Argentina then played its cards in a truly stupid way. I know families who have done the same. It happens and such people often then blame outsiders, neighbours or Americans for their own folly and mistakes. Only Argentina could create a Juan Peron.

But Eyeball, forget your argument or the authoritarian dictators in the website linked above. If you're going to blame the US government (and specifically a US president) for exercising raw power, then I'd look to Truman. He ordered the US military to drop atomic bombs on Japanese cities killing several hundred thousand innocent women and children. And Truman didn't order them to drop the bomb once; he ordered them to drop it twice.

Actually I expect someone will finally get pissed off enough to smuggle in a nuke or even several of them and try to knock America over. The collapse of the Roman Empire comes to mind. Like I said, nothing lasts forever.

As the PM of Australia John Howard used to say, don't wish for the defeat of the US. You just may get it. Edited June 28, 2009 by August1991