Gay is not norrmal

[Oleg Bach]

When you hear me speak of my mother, coming out will mean revolution.

Go head and revolt my friend - your mother would be proud of you - thus far you may be a disappointment because of your non-commital character - that you like to sit on the fence and dance..the fence is thin and your footing will eventually become more unstable as the rains of shame and regret envelope you...don't ask me what the means...it's just poetry -------------------------------------so who is your mother benny - someone important I assume.

[Charles Anthony]

Guys,

Stop the off-topic banter. Discuss the topic of this thread or do not post.

[benny]

Yes! Identity politics is not about soul-searching.

[Oleg Bach]

Yes! Identity politics is not about soul-searching.

He means well and he knows what he is doing to keep this place functional and useful - soul searching is fine - but keep your eye on the ball in the mean time...I am the least informed on this site - and Anthony has granted my a bit of grace - that somehow I might just stumble on something useful - and that is my job - to toss out as much speculative imaginings as possible and let the experts filter it though.

[benny]

"Identity politics is political action to advance the interests of members of a group whose members perceive themselves to be oppressed by virtue of a shared and marginalized identity (such as race, ethnicity, religion, gender, and sexual orientation). Some groups have combined identity politics and Marxian social class analysis and class consciousness — the most notable example being the Black Panther Party — but this is not necessarily characteristic of the form."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics

[JerrySeinfeld]

"Identity politics is the concept used to perpetuate racial stereotyping which first began prior to the civil rights movement and was largely a racial tactic used by the conservative southern males. Since that time, identity politics has been adopted by left wing liberal poltical movements as way to perpetuate racial stereotyping for political advantage. Nobody should be an individual. Individuals become independant, think for themselves and ultimately vote republican. Members of an identifiable group, however, are victims and need help from the left wing party du jour to over come their opressed state in society. This opressed state can, of course, never be percieved to have been overcome, because if it did, it would mean the end of the left wing liberal party." - unknown definition

Edited June 18, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld

[benny]

"Identity politics is the concept used to perpetuate racial stereotyping which first began prior to the civil rights movement and was largely a racial tactic used by the conservative southern males. Since that time, identity politics has been adopted by left wing liberal poltical movements as way to perpetuate racial stereotyping for political advantage. Nobody should be an individual. Individuals become independant, think for themselves and ultimately vote republican. Members of an identifiable group, however, are victims and need help from the left wing party du jour to over come their opressed state in society. This opressed state can, of course, never be percieved to have been overcome, because if it did, it would mean the end of the left wing liberal party." - unknown definition

Unknown definition of course!

[Oleg Bach]

Definition...light a fire in a theatre - cry fire - save who you can - be a hero - and sell pain medication to those who are a bit slow getting out..that's politics...some have it down to an art and some stumble along and learn as they go. It's great that we have so many new loving people who weep when they hear about a dog hurting it's paw...and demand human rights for dogs - but there is always a problem that results from comparison..that once dogs have human rights - then suddenly surprise surprise - people become dogs...but no one is going to bag their poop - or feed them - or walk them or love them - in the end the dogs will rule...and the big dogs will rule the little loving people of dogs..get my drift - family first! Dogs are my pets - but not may family - they are guests .......same as strangers are not my family - and in fact - my family is not may family - unless they give me money first - then_ I will consider them human ----woof woof... THAT was the most useless rant ever ---- How did I do benny?

[benny]

Ultimately, identity politics is about guaranteeing the social basis for one's self-respect.

[Oleg Bach]

Ultimately, identity politics is about guaranteeing the social basis for one's self-respect.

In the alternative it can also have the effect of guaranteeing the opposite.

[GostHacked]

http://www.livescience.com/animals/090616-...ex-animals.html

Examples of same-sex behavior can be found in almost all species in the animal kingdom — from worms to frogs to birds — making the practice nearly universal among animals, according to a new review of research on the topic.

So it is normal. Lol at the Pat Robertson comment.

[Oleg Bach]

http://www.livescience.com/animals/090616-...ex-animals.html

So it is normal. Lol at the Pat Robertson comment.

"But mommy - I want to be gay ---- the plants are doing it ---- the microbes --- the rats ....and the worms are having same sex love affairs"

"No Billy - you are not a worm" Love this stuff - that human beings that are supposed to attempt to enter devine order - always refere to the ball licking dog laying in the drive way - licking while man kind flys to the moon - Sorry - I don't care if all the ANIMALS ARE GAY.....I have free will - choice and a determination to be more than some lower life form -----but ---those liberalists want to liberate me from a human down to being equal to worms having sex - nope - let the worms be normally gay - I don't want to be normal.

[g_bambino]

So it is normal.

I heard an interview with this researcher on the BBC podcast this morning. I personally don't see the findings as surprising. I wonder, though, what the reaction is of those who believe sexual orientation to be some ingrained and immovable force of nature. The study, after all, concludes that homosexual behaviour occurs amongst animals, but not that any animals are exclusively homosexual for their entire lives.

[Oleg Bach]

I heard an interview with this researcher on the BBC podcast this morning. I personally don't see the findings as surprising. I wonder, though, what the reaction is of those who believe sexual orientation to be some ingrained and immovable force of nature. The study, after all, concludes that homosexual behaviour occurs amongst animals, but not that any animals are exclusively homosexual for their entire lives.

BBC ? They are all very feminized... A couple of years ago - for about 3 months I debated the gay lobby out of San Francisco...it was a tough fight - and I did come to an understanding ---the extremists - the moderates etc...in the end the main spokes person - admitted to "gay by choice" - gay is not a race...or a seperate human species...a lot of the time it is a choice...animals have no choice - they just do what they do..Human hedonists - or those that do not want the responsiblity of husbanding a woman - sometimes opt out - I am looking across the street as I write and there are a couple of older "gay" men...and I know them well enough - they just want no part of being a man that connects to a female.....all sorts of things take place in the animal kingdom --- YOU will never see a dog instert his penis in the rectum of another dog - it takes human inginutity to come up with that crap -----nawh - all thins are normal in this world - some choose to be not so normal.

[GostHacked]

I heard an interview with this researcher on the BBC podcast this morning. I personally don't see the findings as surprising. I wonder, though, what the reaction is of those who believe sexual orientation to be some ingrained and immovable force of nature. The study, after all, concludes that homosexual behaviour occurs amongst animals, but not that any animals are exclusively homosexual for their entire lives.

We can see that it exists among the animals (us as animals included), and seems to be a part of most life on this planet. So this kind of rules out that it is not normal. It is normal for every population of every kind of animal on the planet where homosexual behavior exists. Humans just seems to have a concious beef with it because of how we developed our social intereactions and expectations among each other.

Humans are the only ones that seem to have a problem with it. I can tell you that the rest of the animal kingdom on this planet does not have an issue with it. They are not killing each other because they have gay members, they are not ousting them or even thumb up their nose at it. Animals simply don't care about it.

You could say that it is not normal for a species to debate homosexuality.

[g_bambino]

We can see that it exists among the animals (us as animals included), and seems to be a part of most life on this planet. So this kind of rules out that it is not normal.

What do you mean by "it", though? You use the term "gay" further on in your post, but, the research said nothing about animals being gay at all. We need to be careful not to confuse the sexual identity label of "gay" - which is a human societal construct - with the act of sex - which is an inate aspect of biology. Animals other than humans have no issue with the former, because it doesn't exist in their world, unlike that of humans, wherein the latter has been warped and divided into identified camps, and the battles between them cause all the problems.

[GostHacked]

What do you mean by "it", though? You use the term "gay" further on in your post, but, the research said nothing about animals being gay at all. We need to be careful not to confuse the sexual identity label of "gay" - which is a human societal construct - with the act of sex - which is an inate aspect of biology.

As humans we use many terms for the behaviour, and we are the only species that seems to be aware of it, and find it odd. But in fact it is us that are odd among the rest of the animals.

Animals other than humans have no issue with the former, because it doesn't exist in their world, unlike that of humans, wherein the latter has been warped and divided into identified camps, and the battles between them cause all the problems.

And as animals, humans should not be different, eventhough we try to be. So if the rest of the animal kingdom does not have a problem with it, why the hell does the human species have an issue with it?

[benny]

In the alternative it can also have the effect of guaranteeing the opposite.

The opposite cannot be guaranteed.

[Tawasakm]

Every kid growing up thinks about marriage. Even the boys - although they may be considerably less sophistacted in whatever they are thinking. Hell I was 'married' five times in one week in year 3 (to 3 different girls). Shocking divorce rate I know. The point is that the ideal or goal of marriage is instilled in us in a young age. We are socialised to desire marriage as a stable and fulfilling institution (it almost seems like its part of the cycle of life). Some people go on to reject that socialisation and choose against marriage. Most do not.

Some of those kids who are socialsed about marriage become homosexual. Those who do not reject the ideal of marriage are denied it. In this respect I see it as marginalising gay folks. They grew up the same as the rest of us with all the same influences, watching the same shows, hearing the same message and seeing the same world. I don't think their thought processes will be so fundamentally different that this cornerstone of adult relationships will be something they don't want. When they are rejected they are told that they are different and other. That what they learned to want growing up is now denied them because of what they turned out to be.

Thats just my opinion on it. I don't see the point in marginalising these people over the use of a word. I just don't see anybody losing out.

[g_bambino]

And as animals, humans should not be different, eventhough we try to be. So if the rest of the animal kingdom does not have a problem with it, why the hell does the human species have an issue with it?

I'm still not sure what you mean by "it" and "the behaviour". As I agree with you that humans should not pretend too much to be different to other animals in terms of our basic functioning, including sex, I have to view a life-long, exclusive desire for same-gender coupling and the construct of a self-identity and community around that to be uniquely human, thus differentiating the species from others. If we were to be like the other animals in this regard, we'd dispense with these divisive sexual labels and accept that we - like all other species - are capable of engaging sometimes in heterosexual sex and sometimes in homosexual sex, depending on what we feel like at the moment (or are fooled into, like those poor fruit flies who can't tell what gender they're screwing!)

[benny]

Every kid growing up thinks about marriage. Even the boys - although they may be considerably less sophistacted in whatever they are thinking. Hell I was 'married' five times in one week in year 3 (to 3 different girls). Shocking divorce rate I know. The point is that the ideal or goal of marriage is instilled in us in a young age. We are socialised to desire marriage as a stable and fulfilling institution (it almost seems like its part of the cycle of life). Some people go on to reject that socialisation and choose against marriage. Most do not.

Some of those kids who are socialsed about marriage become homosexual. Those who do not reject the ideal of marriage are denied it. In this respect I see it as marginalising gay folks. They grew up the same as the rest of us with all the same influences, watching the same shows, hearing the same message and seeing the same world. I don't think their thought processes will be so fundamentally different that this cornerstone of adult relationships will be something they don't want. When they are rejected they are told that they are different and other. That what they learned to want growing up is now denied them because of what they turned out to be.

Thats just my opinion on it. I don't see the point in marginalising these people over the use of a word. I just don't see anybody losing out.

The problem is that we are even more socialized subtly to obey authority especially if this authority arbitrarily expresses prejudices.

[GostHacked]

I'm still not sure what you mean by "it" and "the behaviour". As I agree with you that humans should not pretend too much to be different to other animals in terms of our basic functioning, including sex, I have to view a life-long, exclusive desire for same-gender coupling and the construct of a self-identity and community around that to be uniquely human, thus differentiating the species from others. If we were to be like the other animals in this regard, we'd dispense with these divisive sexual labels and accept that we - like all other species - are capable of engaging sometimes in heterosexual sex and sometimes in homosexual sex, depending on what we feel like at the moment (or are fooled into, like those poor fruit flies who can't tell what gender they're screwing!)

Look at the title. Then you can put 2+2 and get the topic of this thread.

The it is gay and the behaviour is homosexuality. Read for once.

[g_bambino]

The it is gay and the behaviour is homosexuality.

Then it is you who has the reading problem - the conclusions of the research showed nothing about gay animals, just homosexual behaviour.

[GostHacked]

Then it is you who has the reading problem - the conclusions of the research showed nothing about gay animals, just homosexual behaviour.

Which was my point altogether. So why do we need to classify it as abnormal?

[Oleg Bach]

Which was my point altogether. So why do we need to classify it as abnormal?

If a bored husband becomes fixated on his wives anal area and avoids the vagina - is that normal - or is that gay? Or is it just a case of debauchery and the sign of a spoiled bored brat?