kuzadd Posted June 6, 2009 Report Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) You have no response to what some in the country are saying so you now run to mommy the moderator - how grown up is that? You have heard far worse in your life - so why can it not be said here? Company too polite? Opinions not allowed because they are not yours?Poor boy/girl whatever. Hive? Old stuff - to repeat myself from far back It is the first letters of my last name - been around a lot longer than Star Trek By the way - you are seeing nothing here that has not been said elsewhere in the country. Too hard for you? I could dumb it down to your level if you ask nicely You need some de-sensitivity training I will repeat my question: I would ask - if the palestinains truly want peace - what do they have to do to achieve it? Care to answer wise guy/gal? How about you tango, the closet racist? Peace is a two way street - what do THEY have to do - or are you folks so bound in your hatred you refuse to answer? You folks need to get out more Lovely day here today - think I will go out and see what the animals are doing Borg NO need to dumb it down any more then your usual moronic speech. I'll try to K.I.S. S for ya okay? Palestine, can never do anything to satisfy Israel. Israel does not want peace, they benefit too much from war. Israel does not want to recognize an independant Palestianian state, and they never have wanted to. Not previously, not now and not in the future. What is that? OBVIOUSLY, because Israel does not want defined Palestinian State borders, which would then therefore, obviously DEFINE Israel's border, and I will say it again Israel does not want defined borders. Israel under the guise of endless war can continue on in her expansionist mode, which she has from the get go. Israel does not want peace. Therefore and most obviously to those who can think a thought not dictated to them. There is nothing that the Palestians can ever do that will satisfy Israel, acclaimed need for peace, when Israel does not want peace, they want land. Did I make it simple enough for you? It is all obvious anyway, if you actually knew much of anything about that situation. And, clearly you do not! Go see what the animals are doing, I think that is wonderful, maybe you will learn something from them, anything! A quote from David Ben Gurion-1948. "Take the American Declaration of Independence for instance. It contains no mention of the territorial limits. We are not obliged to state the limits of our State." Does he make it clear enough? Israel had defined borders, when the UN partitioned Palestine. They were rejected immediately, by Israel. Hence and as I already stated Israel wants land, not peace. By whatever means. here, though I would throw one more in there for you, since you have comprehension issues David Ben Gurion "To maintain the status quo will not do. We have to set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion" Edited June 6, 2009 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
DogOnPorch Posted June 6, 2009 Report Posted June 6, 2009 Does he make it clear enough? Israel had defined borders, when the UN partitioned Palestine.They were rejected immediately, by Israel. Hence and as I already stated Israel wants land, not peace. By whatever means. here, though I would throw one more in there for you, since you have comprehension issues What history book are you reading? It was the Arabs that rejected the partition plan of 1947. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Borg Posted June 6, 2009 Report Posted June 6, 2009 There is nothing that the Palestians can ever do that will satisfy Israel, acclaimed need for peace, when Israel does not want peace, they want land.Go see what the animals are doing, I think that is wonderful, maybe you will learn something from them, anything! How do you know for a fact there is nothing they can do - what have they done to date? Oh, by the way - those animals are the two legged kind - they work for me and that is their name for their unit. They have taught me a lot - and I am still alive because of them Going to answer my question or cop out with another weak attempt to goad me. You cannot answer me Borg Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 6, 2009 Report Posted June 6, 2009 As of this morning, Hamas and Fatah were still duking it out in the WB, while Hamas in Gaza issued threats against the Palestinian Authority re: collaboration w/ Zionists. But, I doubt this is really something worth mentioning as it doesn't involve Israelis. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) I'm sure they would be happy to switch to Apache Helicopters and Battle Tanks if the USA gave them 2.76 Billion dollars in military aid every year as well... Here we go...lol. Again, where do the Arabs get their gear? In the good ol' days, the Arabs got their weapons for free as Warsaw Pact proxies...you know...our old Cold War enemy. Now days, the Russkies are strapped for cash and can't afford to give away MiG-29s for free. So now, their Arab chums have to cough up the dough for 'em. I do sympathize with the Arab supporters, though. Losing one's sugar daddy is tough. I can see why they'd be upset that Israel's "big brother" still hands out their buckaroos like they were candy...while Russia sits there, wanting cash-on-the-barrel before the T-62s get shipped. It's amusing now to hear folks wanting the US to supply former proxy enemies out of 'fairness' or some other misguided sense of how things should be. But none-the-less, there was a time not so long ago where the Arabs could be counted on to attack when they felt they had enough freebee Russian goodies to fight with. In the heavy irony department: Israel converts captured Arab military gear for their own use. The long columns of APCs you saw entering Gaza earlier this year were mostly old T-55s and T-62s with their turrets removed, refitted to haul troops. It should be noted that Israel is quite capable of arming itself. It produces the best defensive tank in the world at the moment (Merkava). Its troops use Israeli made small-arms (Uzi/Grail/etc); while in aviation, it used to produce the best dogfighter on the planet (Kfir). Israel uses no US made 'battle tanks' these days. But, during the massive tank battles of the Yom Kippur War, the most common Israeli tank on the battlefield was the M-50 Super Sherman. This was a modified version of the ol' M-4 Sherman from WW2 which the Israelis had bought surplus (like many nations did) and refitted themselves into a lethal tank killer capable of dealing with Russia's most modern tanks being given to the Arabs. They won. Edited June 7, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
KrustyKidd Posted June 7, 2009 Report Posted June 7, 2009 Does he make it clear enough? Israel had defined borders, when the UN partitioned Palestine.They were rejected immediately, by Israel. Wow. I'm not sure what to say about this unbelievable perversion of historic fact. When you actually read up on it and discover that reality is quite opposite, will your viewpoint change or, did you try to change historic reality to fit your preconceived viewpoint? Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
dub Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Wow. I'm not sure what to say about this unbelievable perversion of historic fact.When you actually read up on it and discover that reality is quite opposite, will your viewpoint change or, did you try to change historic reality to fit your preconceived viewpoint? wait a second, are you saying that israel accepted the UN partition plan? Edited June 8, 2009 by dub Quote
kuzadd Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 wait a second, are you saying that israel accepted the UN partition plan? dub: of course he is not saying that, because he can't. Except in fantasy land. Israel has never accepted the boundaries of the partition, they never will. They will never allow the formation of a Palestinian State. There new extremist-terrorist government of their choosing has been making that quite clear. Oh and one more thing, the proof of this is in a map recently placed on the Guardian news site. I'll be right back..... Mapping an Occupation it's interactive, and makes it clear just how much land Israel has stolen in their occupation of the indigenous people. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
KrustyKidd Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 wait a second, are you saying that israel accepted the UN partition plan? They could not accept it as the Arabs, by their flat out refusal nullified the plan. Hence, there was nothing to accept. They did however, approve it in principal until that refusal. Global Security Israeli War of Independence Although considering the plan defective in terms of their expectations from the League of Nations Mandate twenty-five years earlier, the Zionist General Council stated willingness in principle to accept partition. The League of Arab States (Arab League) Council, meeting in December 1947, said it would take whatever measures were required to prevent implementation of the resolution. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
DogOnPorch Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) kuzadd: dub: of course he is not saying that, because he can't.Except in fantasy land. Israel has never accepted the boundaries of the partition, they never will. They will never allow the formation of a Palestinian State. There new extremist-terrorist government of their choosing has been making that quite clear. What outright BS. Israel accepted the partition (The Jewish Agency). The Arabs rejected it. War followed. Once war was declared by the Arabs, all bets were off. The Arabs lost. Lost badly. Edited June 8, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 Wow. I'm not sure what to say about this unbelievable perversion of historic fact.When you actually read up on it and discover that reality is quite opposite, will your viewpoint change or, did you try to change historic reality to fit your preconceived viewpoint? Choice #2...lol Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Oleg Bach Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 What outright BS. Israel accepted the partition (The Jewish Agency). The Arabs rejected it. War followed. Once war was declared by the Arabs, all bets were off. The Arabs lost. Lost badly. So who ever loses a fight is doomed to an eternity of damnation? Come on now - that's not very Christian. BUT it is very Jewish I suppose - IF I were a Israeli buisness person and I took over a company and I suppose it would be my God given right to abuse those I vanquished - by paying them 20 cents a day.....not very civilized if you ask me ------------- but look in the Koran - or the Tora - these people are NOT CIVILIZED. Quote
kuzadd Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) They could not accept it as the Arabs, by their flat out refusal nullified the plan. Hence, there was nothing to accept. They did however, approve it in principal until that refusal.Global Security Israeli War of Independence The map of an occupation makes it clear Israel has never accepted it's lawful borders. Talk is cheap. Land grabbing and expulsion along with ethnic cleansing is for real. Actions show where the heart of the matters lie. That map I posted makes it absolutely unequivocally clear. Israel has never accepted it UN mandated borders, never intended to and never will. Again I will let David Ben Gurion speak The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan: one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today, but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them. * Speech in 1937, accepting a British proposal for partition of Palestine which created a potential Jewish majority state, as quoted in New Outlook (April 1977) Ben Gurion makes it clear the so called 'acceptance' of the boundaries were by no means a LIMIT to their expansionist aspirations, merely a starting point to expand boundaries, NO EXTERNAL FACTOR WILL LIMIT THEM. As the map of the expansion and occupation shows clearly, that has been and is the goal. I was thinking in simplified terms how to explain this. Israel is like the cheating partner in a relationship. They took vows solemnly, they said they would be faithful, but no sooner is the honeymoon over, the cheating partner is out, well cheating. Despite the most solemn of vows that they agreed to. That is Israel's position in this situation, they made the vows ('accepting' the boundaries) with no intention of ever sticking to them. None whatsoever. And, they never have. Mapping an Occupation Edited June 8, 2009 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
KrustyKidd Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 The map of an occupation makes it clear Israel has never accepted it's lawful borders.Talk is cheap. Land grabbing and expulsion along with ethnic cleansing is for real. Actions show where the heart of the matters lie. That map I posted makes it absolutely unequivocally clear. Israel has never accepted it UN mandated borders, never intended to and never will. Again I will let David Ben Gurion speak * Speech in 1937, accepting a British proposal for partition of Palestine which created a potential Jewish majority state, as quoted in New Outlook (April 1977) Ben Gurion makes it clear the so called 'acceptance' of the boundaries were by no means a LIMIT to their expansionist aspirations, merely a starting point to expand boundaries, NO EXTERNAL FACTOR WILL LIMIT THEM. As the map of the expansion and occupation shows clearly, that has been and is the goal. I was thinking in simplified terms how to explain this. Israel is like the cheating partner in a relationship. They took vows solemnly, they said they would be faithful, but no sooner is the honeymoon over, the cheating partner is out, well cheating. Despite the most solemn of vows that they agreed to. That is Israel's position in this situation, they made the vows ('accepting' the boundaries) with no intention of ever sticking to them. None whatsoever. And, they never have. Mapping an Occupation The Arabs rejected it outright. The Jews agreed with it. Your hisotory is faulty. You said They were rejected immediately, by Israel. They were not. It was the Arabs who rejected it immediately. Once you acknowledge that, you will be able to debate with knowledge and thus, contribute positively to the forums. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
dub Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Posted June 8, 2009 They could not accept it... so yeah, anyway, what you're saying is that they didn't accept it. i'm glad you learned something new. Quote
KrustyKidd Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 so yeah, anyway, what you're saying is that they didn't accept it.i'm glad you learned something new. Do try to keep quotes in context Dub. Here is the complete quote......... They could not accept it as the Arabs, by their flat out refusal nullified the plan. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
scorpio Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Oh yes the Palestinians have been a peaceful bunch now haven't they...........lets see what have they been up to? Oh, yes Israel the peace loving nation NOT Edited June 8, 2009 by scorpio Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 Oh, yes Israel the peace loving nation NOT Well, hell....Canada has been in more wars than Israel ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 Well, hell....Canada has been in more wars than Israel ! We know when it's over and time to get off our high horse and be friends...look at the Americans - there are a dozen states all over the world that you waged war on - and now you are friends and trading partners - why can't those dumb Jews make friends and get off their high horse long enough to be pragmatically peaceful.?? Sorry about the dumb jew comment.....I meant the dumb American congress and general administration that does not want peace in the middle east because it would not be profitable..."fight you bastards for I hate peace" - my father in law the X drunken cop use to say that.......If America wanted peace in the middle east it would be here by now - they either are a bunch of con men that send Hillary Clinton to lie - OR YOU ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID. Quote
wulf42 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 Oh, yes Israel the peace loving nation NOT Hard to be peaceful when your surrounded by Muslim terrorist's hellbent on your destruction...........one of these days Israel will snap completely and turn the mideast into a fireball! Quote
KrustyKidd Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 Hard to be peaceful when your surrounded by Muslim terrorist's hellbent on your destruction...........one of these days Israel will snap completely and turn the mideast into a fireball! The idea of withdrawing US support also withdraws control. I for one would not like to see Israel backed into a corner. Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 -why can't those dumb Jews make friends and get off their high horse long enough to be pragmatically peaceful.?? Sorry about the dumb jew comment.....I meant the dumb American congress Because the "smart" Arabs keep attacking Israel. I guarantee you that if Canada started lobbing rockets at Buffalo, it would be like 1812 all over again, with a different outcome. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wulf42 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) The idea of withdrawing US support also withdraws control. I for one would not like to see Israel backed into a corner. Nor would i............the Persian Gulf might get a whole lot bigger! Many people don t realize that U.S. backing for Israel means to some extent Israel is largely influenced by America and has some control in holding the Israeli's back from all out attack against the Arabs.....the Minute Israel thinks it has been abandoned and left on its own it will become very dangerous and with a large Nuclear Arsenal at its disposal .......well you can see why this is not a good idea! Edited June 8, 2009 by wulf42 Quote
Bonam Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Nor would i............the Persian Gulf might get a whole lot bigger!Many people don t realize that U.S. backing for Israel means to some extent Israel is largely influenced by America and has some control in holding the Israeli's back from all out attack against the Arabs.....the Minute Israel thinks it has been abandoned and left on its own it will become very dangerous and with a large Nuclear Arsenal at its disposal .......well you can see why this is not a good idea! Nah I wouldn't worry about the nukes, MAD would still be in effect, as would the threat of devastating sanctions from Western nations in the case of using nukes. There are other nations in the region with nukes besides Israel (i.e. Pakistan) that wouldn't take too kindly to Israel nuking anything. Israel, just like any other sane nation, would only use nukes in the event that it was the very last resort in a war determining its existence, i.e. with its armies slain in battle and the barbarian horde converging on Tel Aviv, or if someone else used nukes first. That being said, they would of course be less inclined to show restraint in other ways, such as in their dealings with Palestinian terrorists. Edited June 9, 2009 by Bonam Quote
dub Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Posted June 9, 2009 I guarantee you that if Canada started lobbing rockets at Buffalo, it would be like 1812 all over again, with a different outcome. do you mean after the US starts settling fanatical religious southern americans inside canada and then controls its borders and everything that goes in and out? lol @ pretending that its the rockets that is the symptom of the problem. Quote
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