Liberal Minority Government

[KingIggy]

So Harper walks the same path as Bush...

1) Wreckless tax cuts (just like Bush)

2) Increased military funding (just like Bush)

3) Increased drug war (just like Bush)

4) Increased national debt (just like Bush)

5) Republican style attack ads (just like Bush).

6) False, hypocritical claims of "fiscal conservatism" (like the Republicans).

7) Banishing party moderates (just like Cheney).

8) Let (CPP) CEO's keep huge bonuses while their corporation LOSES money (something Bush-like for sure)

9) No boosting of the social safety net (EI) during recession (like Bush)

[M.Dancer]

Good thing you know how to cut and paste cause clearly you have run our of ideas.

BTW....Tell us about the Bush Recession....

[Wild Bill]

http://www.harperindex.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=0027

http://votestrategic.ca/ownwords.htm

Even Joe Clark realized Harper is a Neo-Con.

That's ironic! Joe was never a conservative but rather a liberal, except for his team jersey.

[geoffrey]

Harper is a liberal too, not sure what the issue is. He's all above saving union jobs above all else (GM bailout), reducing regressive taxes (GST), increasing taxes on investment (income trusts). Ending wars early (Afghanistan... before the Liberals wanted to leave). I'm not really sure what these neo-con policies are.

I haven't seen a single conservative thing from Harper since he took office. Just lots of spend, spend, spend liberal measures.

[Smallc]

That's right, so we might as well have people in power who actually believe in what they're doing.

There are only two differences betwen the Liberal party and the Conservative party: The Conservatives seem to hate having to do all the thigns that they have to do to keep most Canadains happy...the Liberals don't, and based on recent times, Conservaitves don't seem to be able to balance a budget (or even come close)...and Liberals do.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Smallc

[M.Dancer]

I haven't seen a single conservative thing from Harper since he took office. Just lots of spend, spend, spend liberal measures.

Which is why I like him. A liberal without the taint of theft...

[Smallc]

A liberal without the taint of theft...

Now now, not all Liberals are thieves.

[geoffrey]

...based on recent times, Conservaitves don't seem to be able to balance a budget (or even come close)...and Liberals do.

Oh come on. No one could have balanced the budget this year. That's unrealistic. Raise taxes or cut spending. Which is it? Those are the only ways for the government to have more money.

[M.Dancer]

Now now, not all Liberals are thieves.

True...just the fund raisers

[Alta4ever]

Is the notion that you are blindly supporting the farthest rightwing party affecting you WRT unbiased objectivity ?

So now you think you know me enough to decide who Ito thing I support politicians blindly? I have not decided to use a name like kingiggy, which shows you blindly follow a leader. You need to stop inferring your traits on others.

[Smallc]

Oh come on. No one could have balanced the budget this year. That's unrealistic.

I didn't expect them to do it this year....but according to TD they won't do it anytime soon given that we left ourselves no room because we cut taxes by a large amount...tens of billions of dollars. We could have had room and tax cuts...but no, instead we just had tax cuts.

[sharkman]

And cutting taxes softened the blow to the economy from the recession. There were more dollars in the economy than there would have been due to the tax cuts. With fewer dollars, the hit would have been harder.

[Smallc]

Income tax cuts in the same amount would have introduced money into the economy more efficiently, beucase it would have given it mostly to the middle class allowing them to have more buying power.

Face it, we left ourselves with no room....we've even been told as much by the PBO and private economists.

[Moonbox]

Income tax cuts in the same amount would have introduced money into the economy more efficiently, beucase it would have given it mostly to the middle class allowing them to have more buying power.

In a recession the only thing income tax cuts will do is make sure people have extra money to pay down their credit cards and debt. It's not likely to go to extra spending.

A gst cut, on the other hand, doesn't help anyone who's not spending, and can only encourage (to however small a degree) consumerism.

Face it, we left ourselves with no room....we've even been told as much by the PBO and private economists.

The spending increases were stupid leading up to the recession, the PBO is right in that. The problem is that if not the Conservatives, the Liberals would have spent the money themselves as well, as evidenced by their election promises and all of Ig's statements since then. The economists and PBO are certainly not endorsing their causes....

[Topaz]

Iggy said he knows most Canadian don't want an election and he really doesn't want one BUT is he as the opposition suppose sit back while our country heads for billions of $ deficeit by a party that too inexperience to know what they are doing?? IF we go into an election to get rid of this mess, then the Libs NEED a majority to do what HAS to be done. If they get a minority the Tories will stop them from doing it and nothing will change. As voters we MUST forget voting by partylines and think of the future because there are going to be less tax payers in the generation coming up to help pay this down! Think about!

[Smallc]

In a recession the only thing income tax cuts will do is make sure people have extra money to pay down their credit cards and debt. It's not likely to go to extra spending.

We didn't make the cuts during a recession though, they are long term. The income tax cuts probably would have set us up better than the GST cuts in perparations.

As for the Liberal election spedning promises, they were based on the latest numbers that the Tories had given...news outlets did an analysis and said they would balance based on that information, but we all now know that the information was far from current.

[sharkman]

I didn't expect them to do it this year....but according to TD they won't do it anytime soon given that we left ourselves no room because we cut taxes by a large amount...tens of billions of dollars. We could have had room and tax cuts...but no, instead we just had tax cuts.

Here you are arguing that tax cuts left us no room, now you are saying it was the GST cuts that were bad. Potatoe patatoe. You are missing the point. After the GST cuts, the government was enjoying massive surpluses. We had plenty of room, it's completely unrealistic to expect a government to not go in the hole during a recession, and more so this one.

We are doing much better than the US and many nations around the world, we are doing quite well under the circumstance. After this recession is over, the surpluses will return.

[sharkman]

As for the Liberal election spedning promises, they were based on the latest numbers that the Tories had given...news outlets did an analysis and said they would balance based on that information, but we all now know that the information was far from current.

Are you kidding me? The Liberals made promises based on what the other party's numbers were? The NDP didn't do that, they came up with their own data, and based promises on that. If the Liberals were so inept as to not even do their own research, they are even less electable than I thought.

[Moonbox]

We didn't make the cuts during a recession though, they are long term. The income tax cuts probably would have set us up better than the GST cuts in perparations.

The GST cuts are better for during the recession. If they happened 10 months before that I really don't think it matters that much. There's no reason they have to be permanent either.

As for the Liberal election spedning promises, they were based on the latest numbers that the Tories had given...news outlets did an analysis and said they would balance based on that information, but we all now know that the information was far from current.

Dion and the Liberals were the ones championing the fact that we were heading for recession. With that knowledge, they knew revenues would be way down. Knowing that, they knew there would be deficits and yet they still promised to increase spending and they continue to do so today.

They're criticizing the Harper deficits, but then at the same time they're criticizing him for not doing enough to stimulate the economy. It's pure posturing and anyone with a brain can see it.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Moonbox

[geoffrey]

I didn't expect them to do it this year....but according to TD they won't do it anytime soon given that we left ourselves no room because we cut taxes by a large amount...tens of billions of dollars. We could have had room and tax cuts...but no, instead we just had tax cuts.

A tax cut is a form of stimulus. Without it, the government would need to spend more to have the same impact.

None the less, either Canadian citizens would be borrowing that 1% GST on their consumption at 18% or the government can borrow it at 0.15%. Common sense. The deficit isn't a bad thing right now.

[Moonbox]

None the less, either Canadian citizens would be borrowing that 1% GST on their consumption at 18% or the government can borrow it at 0.15%. Common sense. The deficit isn't a bad thing right now.

Can you explain how the government borrows at 0.15%? I know they can borrow low but I didn't think it was that low....

Edit:

Nevermind...I suppose you're talking Tbills. Dumb question.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Moonbox

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I will suggest that the so called "stimulus" package is utter garbage. Virtually all of the money tagged as such will be going directly into Ontario and to a lesser degree Quebec. Granted there are some infrastructure programs that are going to cities, but that is it.

Cutting taxes is a waste of time before you can at least get a handle on spending. By this I mean knowing what you have to spend on. The government hasn't a freaking clue let alone any semblance of a plan toward this little issue. The system does not admit fault or flaw, and simply knows no limits in terms of how and what it spends our money on. If citizens needed any clue about pork barrel spending in Canada this so called economic package should speak loudly to those with the ears to it what it really says.

Simply cutting spending is harmful to both the economy and the people. You need to know what you have to spend and what you have to spend it on first. So what is required is a very systematic approach. The government must determine exactly what its fixed liabilities are, then add to that total projections reflecting growth and inflation. Following that exercise they need to have the backbone to actually put their foot down and find out what the citizens want and what they are willing to pay for. This is no small undertaking because there are going to be a lot of programs that the public would rather see cut than preserved. For starters the total of grants and loans that are not involving education need to be put on the block and examined very carefully. We need to decide wether or not we want a nanny state with a Prime Minister in charge of a Big Brother government or one in which the citizens are free to make decisions for themselves.

All of the social program spending this country has represents a large portion of its budget, so there is lots of room for variables and complications. The biggest bang for the buck can be found there. That is not to say we should cut all or even any of these programs but it does mean that a great deal of scrutiny MUST BE utilized in order to calculate and control expenditures.

In short there is only one way out of our current problems and that is to simply STOP any further spending or new spending on any damned thing until the entire process can be reviewed and repaired. This will not fix anything immediately but it will prevent any further damage. Right now we are still well under a trillion dollars of debt, which is horrific but sustainable given the nature of our resource based economy. However, if we don't get our act together that number will be exceeded in short order. This little economic hiccup is a long way from over and there many hands already reaching out for tax dollars since the government started down this reckless path.

[Smallc]

Here you are arguing that tax cuts left us no room, now you are saying it was the GST cuts that were bad.

Both are true. I would have rather that the GST wasn't cut at all and income taxes were cut by a small amount.

[Smallc]

I will suggest that the so called "stimulus" package is utter garbage. Virtually all of the money tagged as such will be going directly into Ontario and to a lesser degree Quebec. Granted there are some infrastructure programs that are going to cities, but that is it.

You're kidding, right? Alberta is suffering as bad as Ontario during this recession. Hundreds of millions of dollars of projects have already been announced. Alberta isn't a vtictim here, so don't start thinking that it is.

[M.Dancer]

Both are true. I would have rather that the GST wasn't cut at all and income taxes were cut by a small amount.

Not sure if that's kneeling and bobbing, sucking and blowing or having your cake and eating it too....

...but it's one of them