Obama nominates Judge Sonia Sotomayor

BubberMiley · May 29, 2009

Right and wrong out the window, it all comes down to the color of skin and what equipment you have between your legs. What a pick!

Sounds like your gender and the colour of the your skin are affecting your decision-making process.

Shady · May 29, 2009

Sounds like your gender and the colour of the your skin are affecting your decision-making process.

Unfortunately he's probably a white male, A.K.A 'the devil' under the Obama and Sotomayor way of thinking. And Sotomayor obviously has no problem discriminating against 5 while males (1 with dyslexia), even if 1 hispanic male happens to be collateral damage during part of the process. Because in the end, she still comes out at +4.

KrustyKidd · May 29, 2009

Sounds like your gender and the colour of the your skin are affecting your decision-making process.

How so BubberMiley? Please enlighten us all on what decisions I have made which have been dependent on gender and race.

Please show us what the meaning of your comment was and what basis you are using for this personal slander.

BubberMiley · May 30, 2009

Please show us what the meaning of your comment was and what basis you are using for this personal slander.

Personal slander? You just don’t get it.

Sotomayor's point was that it is not only impossible to form a judgement that is not informed by your own racial/gender background, it is not even desirable. Your position is informed by your gender/race whether you are aware of it or not, and whether you like it or not.

Your total misunderstanding of her words not only caused you to misinterpret me, it has also caused you to label her a racist. But that misunderstanding (deliberate or otherwise) is surely informed by your own background, whatever that is.

sharkman · May 30, 2009

And you don't get it. Justice is supposed to be blind.

BubberMiley · May 30, 2009

And you don't get it. Justice is supposed to be blind.

And in the speech she says she appreciates and strives for that ideal, but justice can't be deaf and dumb and poke its eyes out trying to blind either.

But, again, I'm paraphrasing.

KrustyKidd · May 30, 2009

Personal slander? You just don’t get it.
Your total misunderstanding of her words not only caused you to misinterpret me, it has also caused you to label her a racist. But that misunderstanding (deliberate or otherwise) is surely informed by your own background, whatever that is.

I'm half Aborigional so your theory is out the window. As for my misunderstanding of her words let's take another look shall we?

Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.

Seems she hopes that a woman who is Latina with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male. Do you get another understanding from your decoder ring than that?

BubberMiley

Sotomayor's point was that it is not only impossible to form a judgement that is not informed by your own racial/gender background, it is not even desirable. Your position is informed by your gender/race whether you are aware of it or not, and whether you like it or not.

Sorry but I didn't explain to you what race or gender I was as it doesn't matter - to me and nor should it to anybody else. To her it certainly does as she seems to feel that her being Hispanic and a woman gives her some sort of devine insight into justice. That is a sign of a racist.

benny · May 30, 2009

But I don't like racism or reverse discrimination.

You have to choose since reverse discrimination counters racism.

Edited May 30, 2009 by benny

BubberMiley · May 30, 2009

I'm half Aborigional so your theory is out the window. As for my misunderstanding of her words let's take another look shall we?
Sorry but I didn't explain to you what race or gender I was as it doesn't matter - to me and nor should it to anybody else. To her it certainly does as she seems to feel that her being Hispanic and a woman gives her some sort of devine insight into justice. That is a sign of a racist.

I made no assumptions about your race or gender. My point (or her point), again, is that your half-Aboriginalness informs the way you think, just as whatever other background a person has informs the way they think. She's not saying her insight is divine; she saying her insight comes from an experience that is shaped by race and gender.

Now what is a person who calls someone racist based on their own misunderstanding of what they're saying?

KrustyKidd · May 30, 2009

I made no assumptions about your race or gender. My point (or her point), again, is that your half-Aboriginalness informs the way you think, just as whatever other background a person has informs the way they think.

You did though. You said....

What he said......

Your position is informed by your gender/race whether you are aware of it or not, and whether you like it or not.

Being half white and half First Nations doesn't influence me in any way when racisim is seen and, that is what she is. Waffle all you want but really, I could be half Arabic and it would change nothing about her statement as I am a sentient human being and can read as well as understand.

She's not saying her insight is divine; she saying her insight comes from an experience that is shaped by race and gender.
Now what is a person who calls someone racist based on their own misunderstanding of what they're saying?

She is not saying anything of the sort. Read again what she said and translate again if you wish;

Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.

She hopes that a racial group and gender will reach a better conclusion than a white male. That is racist.

I certainly don't hope that Latina women reach better conclusions then Arabic men or women nor do I hope Negro men reach better conclusions then Aborigional women. I hope that all people reach better conclusions regardless of their gender or race. Anybody that hopes that one race and gender does is a racist as well as a sexist as she is by her own admission.

benny · May 30, 2009

She hopes that a racial group and gender will reach a better conclusion than a white male. That is racist.
I certainly don't hope that Latina women reach better conclusions then Arabic men or women nor do I hope Negro men reach better conclusions then Aborigional women. I hope that all people reach better conclusions regardless of their gender or race. Anybody that hopes that one race and gender does is a racist as well as a sexist as she is by her own admission.

Since American society contains diverse kind of racisms and sexisms, the specific kind of racism and sexism that Sotomayor may have can help the Supreme Court to better reflect America.

KrustyKidd · May 30, 2009

Since American society contains diverse kind of racisms and sexisms, the specific kind of racism and sexism that Sotomayor may have can help the Supreme Court to better reflect America.

Wrong. Justice is blind.

Justicde that is admittedly biased is not blind and is therfore not justice but personal.

benny · May 30, 2009

Wrong. Justice is blind.
Justicde that is admittedly biased is not blind and is therfore not justice but personal.

Justice is blindfolded to be exact. When she gets rid of her blindfold, she looks back to redress past wrongs with her sword.

KrustyKidd · May 30, 2009

Justice is blindfolded to be exact. When she gets rid of her blindfold, she looks back to redress past wrongs with her sword.

Oh I see the problem. You believe that we should have biased judges who screw things up completely according to their own personal beliefs without regard for equality and the law and then, later on, halfheartedly rectify those errent judgements.

Cool. Is this an official policy somewhere which is endorsed by some entity?

BubberMiley · May 30, 2009

Being half white and half First Nations doesn't influence me in any way...

How could your race and gender not shape your experience?

KrustyKidd · May 30, 2009

How could your race and gender not shape your experience?

If they do then you are unfit to serve on the Supreme Court as those there are supposed to be beyond that rather than admitting they are not. You seem to be missing the part where she shows she is a sexist racist;

The part..........

would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.

BubberMiley · May 30, 2009

If they do then you are unfit to serve on the Supreme Court as those there are supposed to be beyond that rather than admitting they are not.

But it's impossible for any human being to actually be "beyond" their own experience. If they say the are, they're either lying or mistaken. Therefore, a diversity of experience on the bench is the closest we can ever get to real impartiality. And since our society is founded upon a white, male experience, adding diversity, like Latinas or whatever, makes for "better" decisions overall.

bush_cheney2004 · May 30, 2009

....And since our society is founded upon a white, male experience, adding diversity, like Latinas or whatever, makes for "better" decisions overall.

Speak for yourself.....how ironic.

KrustyKidd · May 30, 2009

But it's impossible for any human being to actually be "beyond" their own experience. If they say the are, they're either lying or mistaken. Therefore, a diversity of experience on the bench is the closest we can ever get to real impartiality. And since our society is founded upon a white, male experience, adding diversity, like Latinas or whatever, makes for "better" decisions overall.

True Bubber however, to openly admit that she feels her race and gender is better at making decisions than white guys is somewhat specifically beyond a subconscious experience sum don't you think ?

Maybe we need some white guys to come and say they can make better decisions than Mexican Housewives or a black guy to say that Nappy Headed Lolitas make poor decisons. That would give us a lot more diversity in the Supreme Court according to your rationale.

bush_cheney2004 · May 30, 2009

....Maybe we need some white guys to come and say they can make better decisions than Mexican Housewives or a black guy to say that Nappy Headed Lolitas make poor decisons. That would give us a lot more diversity in the Supreme Court according to your rationale.

Touche! :lol:

Oleg Bach · May 30, 2009

Touche!

No - America needs honest independent judges sitting in the Supreme Court - It's wrong to stack the place with what ever makes you look good as president - He does not pick the best - he picks what is politically correct in order to inforce his position of power...and the nation will suffer - because there are puppets sitting in high positions that will NEVER make an honest and just judgement - They will follow policy in return for the favour that is the nomination....there is no supreme court - Has anyone seen a supreme decision from any of these courts north and south of the boarder? They do what they are told - and if you think that they are independent judges who actyually judge between what is wrong for society and what is good for them - you are dreaming!

BubberMiley · May 30, 2009

Maybe we need some white guys to come and say they can make better decisions than Mexican Housewives or a black guy to say that Nappy Headed Lolitas make poor decisons. That would give us a lot more diversity in the Supreme Court according to your rationale.

No, because white males are the foundation of power in our democracy. They created this great society almost singlehandedly. When people try to equate white males with nappy-headed lolitas, they are denying the basic power structure and pretending that all "are equal" when they're not. It's possible to talk about white men as representative of the institutions of power without being racist because that's just the reality we have lived in for the past 200 (or many more) years. And it's possible to do so without denigrating white men too, as it's a pretty good society they created. But if we want to perfect that society and make it more fair and representative of everyone (as we've been doing), we need to include other voices. This will make it even "better."

But I agree that her phrasing was poor in that it could easily be misinterpreted when read on its own. Words, particularly lighthearted ones, often don't translate well from a speech to the page.

Edited May 30, 2009 by BubberMiley

benny · May 30, 2009

Oh I see the problem. You believe that we should have biased judges who screw things up completely according to their own personal beliefs without regard for equality and the law and then, later on, halfheartedly rectify those errent judgements.

Because of slavery, I know for a fact that Americans have had in the past biased judges and politicians who have screwed things up completely according to their own personal interests without regard for equality and the law and then, now, wholeheartedly we have to rectify those errant judgments.

Oleg Bach · May 30, 2009

Because of slavery, I know for a fact that Americans have had in the past biased judges and politicians who have screwed things up completely according to their own personal interests without regard for equality and the law and then, now, wholeheartedly we have to rectify those errant judgments.

Don't tell me that a Latino Judge is not going to rule in favour of her own - what kind of good Latino would she be if she ruled in favour of only the fat white guys that put Obama in office?

benny · May 30, 2009

Don't tell me that a Latino Judge is not going to rule in favour of her own - what kind of good Latino would she be if she ruled in favour of only the fat white guys that put Obama in office?

Yes I tell you.