Ignatieff's self test

[capricorn]

In March 2005, when Michael Ignatieff was a Harvard professor, he declared he had the best job in the world.

“I have the best job in the world, and I can’t see any foreseeable circumstance where I want to change. And that’s the hand-on-heart truth,” he told the newspaper.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=508487

Then, the Liberal brass approached him with an offer. Return to Canada and we will help you become Prime Minister. Someone at York University thinks the lure was too great for Ignatieff to turn down.

David J. McNally, a professor and chair of York University’s political science department in Toronto, said he believes that Ignatieff’s homecoming is “undoubtedly” political in nature.

“I think he really wants to see if he can capture a certain public imagination around the idea that he is a charismatic and intelligent candidate,” said McNally, who is the author of an upcoming essay on Ignatieff and imperialism.

---

However, in recent months, Ignatieff’s frequent public appearances and bylined columns in Canadian newspapers have fueled suspicions that he may be testing the waters for a potential run. In March, Ignatieff delivered the keynote address at the Liberal Party’s national-policy convention. He also met with top Liberal Party officials in Quebec and Nova Scotia in May, according to news reports.

“In a certain sense, he’s been rebuilding his Canadian profile,” McNally said.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=508487

That was then. Now, Ignatieff thinks the best job in the world is being Prime Minister. All I know and have read about Ignatieff makes me question why he wants to lead Canada. I want a Prime Minister who is in the game to improve our country, not someone who is in it for personal glory and gratification.

There is a void in Ignatieff's life. It is those 34 years he spent away from his native land. Nothing can fill that void, not even rising to the office of Prime Minister. This is something he will learn if his quest becomes reality.

[Alta4ever]

“If I am not elected, I imagine that I will ask Harvard to let me back,” Ignatieff said. “I love teaching here, and I hope I’ll be back in some shape or form.”

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510196

[waldo]

Then, the Liberal brass approached him with an offer. Return to Canada and we will help you become Prime Minister. Someone at York University thinks the lure was too great for Ignatieff to turn down.

ah yes – the much touted Conservative “factoid” that has the so-called “Liberal brass” steering a clear/easy path for Ignatieff… one that saw an uncertain nomination in Etobicoke, a failed first attempt at the leadership, an interim leadership thanks to Steven Harper, etc. Yup, yup… a clear/easy path the “Liberal brass” provided. And yet… he didn’t bolt after losing the leadership – go figure.

That was then. Now, Ignatieff thinks the best job in the world is being Prime Minister. All I know and have read about Ignatieff makes me question why he wants to lead Canada. I want a Prime Minister who is in the game to improve our country, not someone who is in it for personal glory and gratification.

imagine – career path changes… like a mail-room employee, like a computer systems operator, like a student, like a university lecturer, like a political aide, like an unelected politician, like an executive assistant, like a speechwriter, like a policy adviser, like a politician, like a disgruntled failed politician, like a leader of a think-tank/advocacy group, like an author/opinion writer, like a public speaker, like a political commentator, like a political party leadership candidate/winner, like an elected politician….. like Stephen Harper’s career path changes!

you’re saying Harper’s single motivation is to improve the country? You’re saying nothing Harper has done has been for personal gain, personal glory or personal gratification? Really? You’re saying Harper is selfless… self-sacrificing? Noble? Do you go that far? Is Harper noble? Really?

hey wait a minute… perhaps I’ve jumped ahead… you’ve described the Prime Minister you want and given your partisan leanings (past comments), I just assumed Harper met your criteria. But you don’t explicitly say as much. Acknowledging your self-doubt about Harper is the first step forward – good luck!

There is a void in Ignatieff's life. It is those 34 years he spent away from his native land. Nothing can fill that void, not even rising to the office of Prime Minister. This is something he will learn if his quest becomes reality.

that dog won’t hunt – best to move along and try something else. Polling has shown that as many as 65% of Canadians don’t feel it’s a significant factor. This failed attack strategy has resulted in nothing but harm to the Conservative cause… severe blowback – big time.

by the by: general consensus has it at 27 years – but, other than Conservatives, who’s counting? Notwithstanding the yearly returns made over that period of absence, notwithstanding the current almost 5 years continuous presence, other than Conservatives, who’s counting? Apparently, Ignatieff being fully entrenched in politics at the highest levels since his return hasn’t helped to fill the capricorn void. Apparently, Ignatieff being a distinguished academic, an award-winning author, a journalist, a broadcaster and a documentary filmmaker doesn’t counter any of that capricorn void.

hey now! As recently reported in the Economist… in its regular ongoing series concerning expatriates, an article appeared highlighting the published studies of two psychologists that showed strong empirical evidence between creativity and living abroad… over and above the ever abundant anecdotal evidence that exists. So… yes… clearly… Ignatieff is more creative for having lived outside of Canada. Ignatieff – he’s creative… Harper – not so much! But don’t worry… shortly after Harper loses the next election, that U.S. Fox News job awaits to allow him to begin to fill his creative void.

Cultural Borders and Mental Barriers: The Relationship Between Living Abroad and Creativity

[bush_cheney2004]

....hey now! As recently reported in the Economist… in its regular ongoing series concerning expatriates, an article appeared highlighting the published studies of two psychologists that showed strong empirical evidence between creativity and living abroad… over and above the ever abundant anecdotal evidence that exists. So… yes… clearly… Ignatieff is more creative for having lived outside of Canada.

Indeed...he is very creative....so much so, he created American citizenship for himself whenever convenient.

.....Mr. Ignatieff pledges allegiance...to the flag...of the United States of America.

[BubberMiley]

.....Mr. Ignatieff pledges allegiance...to the flag...of the United States of America.

Not as much as you do to Canada's flag. I guess it's because we're so fascinating.

[capricorn]

ah yes – the much touted Conservative “factoid” that has the so-called “Liberal brass” steering a clear/easy path for Ignatieff… one that saw an uncertain nomination in Etobicoke, a failed first attempt at the leadership, an interim leadership thanks to Steven Harper, etc. Yup, yup… a clear/easy path the “Liberal brass” provided. And yet… he didn’t bolt after losing the leadership – go figure.

You clearly lack understanding of back room politics.

Polling has shown that as many as 65% of Canadians don’t feel it’s a significant factor.

Link please.

So… yes… clearly… Ignatieff is more creative for having lived outside of Canada.

Ignatieff is not so creative as he is crafty.

[waldo]

You clearly lack understanding of back room politics.

but you do? But you claim to absolutely know the back room politics of the party you don’t favour? As I said, your insight and deep knowledge of the, as you state, “Liberal brass” paving the clear/easy path, can’t seem to account for that failed leadership attempt – oh my, where were the party brass? Your insight and deep knowledge, can’t seem to account for the fact Ignatieff completely and absolutely owes his interim leadership to the timing/events of the Coalition… and the actions of Stephen Harper – oh my, where were the party brass? Surely you’re not implying Harper aided and abetted the “Liberal brass” in helping to propel Ignatieff into the Liberal leadership? … because there’s no need to imply what’s widely recognized and generally accepted – thank you Stephen Harper!

Link please.

Tory ads attack Ignatieff’s absence from Canada... "A recent poll by Ipsos Reid showed 60% of Canadians don’t mind he was away" (my crack research staff offers a 5% mea culpa)

Ignatieff is not so creative as he is crafty.

thanks for acknowledging Ignatieff’s creativity. As for “crafty”, are you sure you want to head down the path of itemizing and comparing the deception, deviousness and underhanded plays of respective party leaders? Geezaz – it’s a simple cut and paste for me… there are a multitude of list type web-sites that chronicle the entire Harper history with details methodically outlining every back-stabbing and deceitful Harper action – the names/dates/circumstances of every event… oh my, that Harper’s a trickster extraordinaire! But have at it – we could have some fun… but I’d have to offer you a weighty spot – it’s only fair and sporting.

[Dave_ON]

You clearly lack understanding of back room politics.

Link please.

Ignatieff is not so creative as he is crafty.

Here's the link to the poll I could find, it was from the Political Polls thread on this forum. I personally am getting quite tired of this Conservative power play. Clearly it's not resonating with most Canadians and I expect that as he becomes even more well known in the country it will become even less of an issue.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/fp/G...5148/story.html

The poll suggested six in 10 Canadians believe the nearly three decades Ignatieff spent outside Canada as a journalist and teacher do not make him any less qualified to lead the country.

Four in ten respondents said it was an issue of concern.

I can accept the fact that you don't like Ignatieff, and that's all well and good. But at least save us the tired diatribe that somehow Ignatieff is the only selfish and somewhat ignoble politian to ever darken the halls of parliament unless you can demonstrate how Harper has not displayed these faults himself. That Harper hasn't been the least bit mean spirited or partisan and that he hasn't put his personal vendetta against the Liberals and all the opposition parties above governing the country.

If you don't like him fine, but don't say it's because he's a self serving politian, because they're all self serving. Yes even the conservative messiah himself Mr. Harper is not the PM for the good of Canada or out of the kindness of his heart. If you're expecting a human being to be noble and selfless in the political realm you will only be disappointed time and again. The best we can hope for is that the person who gets elected does as little damage as possible. Oppinions on what constitutes damage is a matter of perspective and varies from region to region.

I personally like Ignatieff. Is he arrogant and somewhat elitist? Absolutely he is and that's not the end of his list of faults, and I can accept these because he is only human. But I also believe his heart is in the right place and that he does wish to work towards a more unified and more prosperous confederation. This is no small task and in reality quite impossible to fully realize, but that doesn't mean we still shouldn't strive for it. The unity card is going to go a lot further than many Conservatives and even Mr. Harper himself would care to admit.

[Keepitsimple]

but you do? But you claim to absolutely know the back room politics of the party you don’t favour? As I said, your insight and deep knowledge of the, as you state, “Liberal brass” paving the clear/easy path, can’t seem to account for that failed leadership attempt – oh my, where were the party brass? Your insight and deep knowledge, can’t seem to account for the fact Ignatieff completely and absolutely owes his interim leadership to the timing/events of the Coalition… and the actions of Stephen Harper – oh my, where were the party brass? Surely you’re not implying Harper aided and abetted the “Liberal brass” in helping to propel Ignatieff into the Liberal leadership? … because there’s no need to imply what’s widely recognized and generally accepted – thank you Stephen Harper!

Here's an article from The Star that will help you to understand Liberal backroom politics. It's nothing new - it's been going on for decades. The only reason Ignatieff stayed around is that the backroom boys convinced him that Dion would implode and that he would pretty well waltz to a coronation. Admittedly, Harper sped up the process but the backroom boys had already plunged a knife into Dion anyway. The only reason Ignatieff is here is because the backroom boys coaxed him back with a promise of power. Who knows, he might make a decent PM but any objective view of the facts would arrive at that conclusion - it's as clear as day. There is no great love of Canada......just a huge amount of hubris.

A select group of Toronto Liberals, among them the Rainmaker's son Ian Davey, agreed over a private Toronto dinner in the summer of 2004, Michael Ignatieff would be the best leader for the federal party.

Naturally, there were hurdles, but, barring Ignatieff's failed run for the leadership, they have been remarkably successful in their efforts.

Now, having chosen their moment to strike and on the brink of fulfilment, the best of them worry, too superstitious to predict victory and aware of the cost of their gamble.

Winning means they will be remembered for rescuing a party – a country, perhaps – with courage, timing and craftiness. Or, they could be destined for failure, victims of power lust who destroyed what they aspired to save.

Ignatieff, 61, has made his move, and it can't be taken back. Losing could make of him a post-regicide Macbeth, doomed by his own sprawling ambition and the "Fire burn and cauldron bubble" wooing of the weird sisters.

A master of backroom politics on Ignatieff's behalf seemed almost paranoid yesterday, on a day he might have been over the moon.

Link: http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/550603

Edited May 23, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[Smallc]

Keep trying...some day something will stick I suppose. Meanwhile, we can all go build firewalls and celebrate our European welfare state.

[capricorn]

but you do? But you claim to absolutely know the back room politics of the party you don’t favour? As I said, your insight and deep knowledge of the, as you state, “Liberal brass” paving the clear/easy path, can’t seem to account for that failed leadership attempt – oh my, where were the party brass? Your insight and deep knowledge, can’t seem to account for the fact Ignatieff completely and absolutely owes his interim leadership to the timing/events of the Coalition… and the actions of Stephen Harper – oh my, where were the party brass? Surely you’re not implying Harper aided and abetted the “Liberal brass” in helping to propel Ignatieff into the Liberal leadership? … because there’s no need to imply what’s widely recognized and generally accepted – thank you Stephen Harper!

oh my, the media does a good job instructing us on what goes on behind the curtains - oh my, no need to be an expert when it's all laid out in front of you.

The Canadian media is abuzz with rumors that power brokers within the Liberal Party have recruited the Toronto-born Ignatieff to return to Canada after three decades of living in England and the United States in order to run for Parliament in the next election, with the intention of grooming him to succeed Paul Martin, the current prime minister.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/art...goes_to_ottowa/

About Michael Ignatieff, it was the eager invocation of the memory of Pierre Trudeau that sent out the first signal of things to come. In almost hushed voices Liberals in the know said that Ignatieff had "the Trudeau thing."

That was in the early winter of 2005, almost two years ago, as the weakness of the Liberal party was becoming painfully apparent for all to see. At that time, one of those eternal Liberal insiders was talking about plans then afoot to choose a successor to Paul Martin as leader of the party.

There are two ways to choose a leader, he said. Either you organize so hard on behalf of an individual that the choice becomes inescapable because of the massive organization. That was how Paul Martin came to be leader and prime minister.

Or, you push an individual forward and the choice becomes inevitable because of the outstanding qualities of that individual. That had been the case back in 1968 when Trudeau, the instant political star, improbably waltzed into the Liberal leadership.

As a buildup for any candidate, that was heavy stuff. The eternal insider would not reveal any names. But, yes, he said, he did have a candidate, and it was a candidate that would fit into the second category, an inevitable-because-of-his-star-qualities candidate.

A few weeks later he did reveal the name of his candidate. It was Michael Ignatieff. Not, of course, exactly like Trudeau, he conceded. But someone who was bilingual, brilliant, handsome, charismatic, charming, an outsider not scarred by the brutalities of the recent Liberal wars.

Not Trudeau, but close. You understand what I'm saying, he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/liberals/ignatieff.html

Michael Ignatieff was literally recruited to come back to Canada and run for the Liberal Party. The story has its roots in a speech Michael Ignatieff gave at the Keith Davey lecture at Victoria College at the University of Toronto in 1998, entitled "The Liberal Imagination: A Defence". Naturally, Keith Davey was in the audience. He had been national campaign director for the Liberals in the 60's and was appointed to the Senate by Trudeau in 1966. Senator Davey was known as "The Rainmaker" due to his expertise in political image-making.

After Ignatieff's guest lecture, the Senator spoke with Rocco Rossi, a long-time Liberal, and now, national director of the Liberal Party of Canada. According to Rossi, the Senator talked about what an incredible speech Ignatieff gave and that he'd be a fantastic addition to the Liberal Party one day. (Keith Davey is now suffering from Alzheimer's). Rossi already was familiar with Ignatieff: he'd been much impressed by Ignatieff's book "The Needs of Strangers", which details what pragmatic liberalism can offer the world.

Fast forward five years. Rocco Rossi was having lunch with television producer Ian Davey, also a stalwart Liberal, and, incidentally, Keith Davey's son. They had just witnessed Paul Martin end up with a minority government after a tough election, and they were thinking that the Liberal Party needed something new. Rossi revealed the story of his father, and Ian Davey says he rushed back after lunch and thought, "I've got it! Eureka! It's Michael Ignatieff."

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/poli..._lecture_1.html

Maybe the Liberal heavyweights who plucked Ignatieff from his Harvard classroom misjudged that delegates would elect him over Dion and Rae. Or, maybe they knew that the first run at the leadership was just part of the grooming process. In the end, they got their way without needing a leadership race.

Tory ads attack Ignatieff’s absence from Canada... "A recent poll by Ipsos Reid showed 60% of Canadians don’t mind he was away" (my crack research staff offers a 5% mea culpa)

Thanks for the link. 60% may not be bothered by his 34 year absence, but does that mean they'd vote for him?

it’s a simple cut and paste for me…

I know. I've seen your work. I'll pass on your offer of holding a tit for tat match.

[capricorn]

I can accept the fact that you don't like Ignatieff, and that's all well and good.

I never said I don't like Ignatieff. I said on other threads and I repeat, it would not trouble me if Ignatieff became PM. As an individual he has fine qualities. From what I know about his positions on major issues, I doubt the country would change much if he was PM.

But at least save us the tired diatribe that somehow Ignatieff is the only selfish and somewhat ignoble politian to ever darken the halls of parliament unless you can demonstrate how Harper has not displayed these faults himself. That Harper hasn't been the least bit mean spirited or partisan and that he hasn't put his personal vendetta against the Liberals and all the opposition parties above governing the country.

If you don't like my diatribe, don't read my posts. I reserve the right to examine a potential PM just as you have the right to criticize Harper's governance.

If you're expecting a human being to be noble and selfless in the political realm you will only be disappointed time and again.

Dave, at my age I've had my share of disappointments. Consequently I am not easily swayed by the words of politicians. What interests me more are their motives.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Iggy has a large task ahead of him. One which I do believe he is capable of achieving. There is no doubt in my mind he is Harper's intellectual superior and I think most Canadians will see this once an election is called.

[waldo]

Maybe the Liberal heavyweights who plucked Ignatieff from his Harvard classroom misjudged that delegates would elect him over Dion and Rae. Or, maybe they knew that the first run at the leadership was just part of the grooming process.

ya, ya.... I guess that part of your master analysis needs to be tweaked!

but while you're spinning - how about those Reform party back-room heavyweights who convinced Harper to leave the NCC and take a shot at the Alliance leadership? What was he promised? Oh the capricorn hypocrisy! We should really spend some time and review that Alliance leadership campaign... there's gold there... real gold!

I know. I've seen your work. I'll pass on your offer of holding a tit for tat match.

thanks for acknowledging your inadequacies... although we certainly could have a great ole time laying out the historical deceit, deception, mud-slinging, underhandedness and back-stabbing. Perhaps another time.

[capricorn]

We should really spend some time and review that Alliance leadership campaign... there's gold there... real gold!

If you think that's such a hot topic, why don't you start a thread?

thanks for acknowledging your inadequacies...

Don't think so highly of yourself. There are better challengers on MLW.

[Bryan]

how about those Reform party back-room heavyweights who convinced Harper to leave the NCC and take a shot at the Alliance leadership? What was he promised?

What WAS he promised? Nothing. They just wanted somebody stronger than Stockwell Day to run.

Besides, what COUNTRY is the NCC located in? If Harper did go back to his old job, he'd still be in Canada, and still be involved in the process of influencing Canadian public policy.

[waldo]

If you think that's such a hot topic, why don't you start a thread?

keeping my powder dry

Don't think so highly of yourself. There are better challengers on MLW.

and yet... you chose not to engage. Ya, there's a few guys I recognize... from here and there I can only suggest you keep at it - perhaps spend more time in trying not to telegraph your posts.

[waldo]

What WAS he promised? Nothing. They just wanted somebody stronger than Stockwell Day to run.

Besides, what COUNTRY is the NCC located in? If Harper did go back to his old job, he'd still be in Canada, and still be involved in the process of influencing Canadian public policy.

whaaa! someone bit... ya see kids - this is how you turn a thread around

[waldo]

What WAS he promised? Nothing. They just wanted somebody stronger than Stockwell Day to run.

Besides, what COUNTRY is the NCC located in? If Harper did go back to his old job, he'd still be in Canada, and still be involved in the process of influencing Canadian public policy.

so... Harper's walk in the NCC snow was all about "influencing Canadian public policy"... firewalls and welfare states... hee haw!!!

[Bryan]

so... Harper's walk in the NCC snow was all about "influencing Canadian public policy"... firewalls and welfare states... hee haw!!!

Absolutely. Context is everything. His NCC comments were in reference to the damage that the Liberals have done to this country over the past 40 some years. Now, instead of complaining about it, he's doing something about it. The Alberta firewall was a necessary and valid sentiment at the time, that led to the rise of the Reform party, and the Conservatives to the government. It was commentary, then action. Clear, and consistent.

[Smallc]

the damage that the Liberals have done to this country over the past 40 some years.

Yes, what a terrible place....

[Topaz]

The guys that went to Iggy to ask him in 2004 were Ian Davey and Daniel Brock. I also was curious how he came back to Canada and I found the following online... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ignatieff

[Keepitsimple]

ya, ya.... I guess that part of your master analysis needs to be tweaked!

but while you're spinning - how about those Reform party back-room heavyweights who convinced Harper to leave the NCC and take a shot at the Alliance leadership? What was he promised? Oh the capricorn hypocrisy! We should really spend some time and review that Alliance leadership campaign... there's gold there... real gold!

thanks for acknowledging your inadequacies... although we certainly could have a great ole time laying out the historical deceit, deception, mud-slinging, underhandedness and back-stabbing. Perhaps another time.

Waldo......you're probably one of the younger posters on this board...but let me get this straight....after all the articles that have been posted - are you trying to argue that backroom politics had NOTHING to do with Ignatieff coming back to Canada? Are you saying that it was his own personal plan? Could you elaborate on exactly what you think happened that caused him to come back to Canada? It's always good to get another point of view.

[Oleg Bach]

I just hope that if Ignatieff is to be PM - that he acturally matures and grows up - he has not reached adulthood quite yet - nothing worse than a 16 year old proud book worm in the body of a 60 year old man - I just hope he is a late bloomer. So far he still suffers from the affliction of institutionalization and the lazy comfort that disease provides.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I am not convinced that he is ready to govern. I am sure he thinks he can but that is not the same thing. He has the brains, but he does not have much political experience. This maybe a problem, then again it may not.